Made You Think Neil Soni, Nat Eliason, and Adil Majid

"We’ve never had a generation more focused on its feelings and, frankly, not one more tyrannized by their feelings.”
Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! Today, we're delving into Abigail Shrier's Bad Therapy, a thought-provoking book which highlights the impact of therapy on individuals, especially younger generations. Join us as we explore the nuances of therapy, its incentives, and its effects.
We cover a wide range of topics including:
Challenges of parenting in a therapy-centric culture Unintended consequences of therapeutic incentives The fine line between taking thoughts too seriously vs. dismissing them Why boundary-setting is crucial as a parent Implications of having an external locus of control And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.
Links from the Episode:
Mentioned in the Show:
Arnold (15:37) Spiritual bypassing (23:21) Washington Post on birth control (46:55) How We Feel (54:01) Coach Carter (57:47) How to Understand the Well-Being Gap between Liberals and Conservatives (1:25:31)  Books Mentioned:
Bad Therapy The Body Keeps the Score (07:09) (Book Episode)  Irreversible Damage (40:44) The Fourth Turning (1:08:32) (Book Episode)  People Mentioned:
Abigail Shrier Show Topics:
(0:00) In today’s episode, we’re covering Bad Therapy by Abigail Shrier, who discusses the impact of therapy on individuals, particularly younger generations, and questions the efficacy and motives behind widespread therapeutic practices. 
(1:57) We provide an overview of the book, examining the sense of loneliness and sadness prevalent in today's youth. It poses the question of whether therapy-related interventions are actually a part of the problem rather than the solution. 
(5:32) How incentives in therapy can sometimes lead to unintended consequences. Shrier highlights that therapists often prefer patients with milder mental health issues, as these sessions can be more relaxed. This raises questions about the subjective nature of screening and diagnostic tools in mental health care.
(10:15) The distinction between chronic and acute treatment, noting how the medical industry often favors chronic cases for their profitability. We touch on various types of therapy, noting that the results of physical therapy, for example, are much more tangible than talk therapy.
(12:42) Nat, Neil, and Adil talk a bit about their personal experiences with therapy.
(15:55) Why going to the gym and being physically active can improve well-being, and how it offers a sense of control and measurable progress in various aspects of life.
(21:12) Shrier emphasizes the lack of agency children have in deciding to continue or end therapy. We also discuss how dwelling on problems, or forced rumination, can exacerbate issues, especially in the context of depression and anxiety.
(25:19) We discuss how therapy can often lead us to give undue weight to passing thoughts, turning them into more significant concerns than they should have been.
(29:33) It can be a challenge for parents to know when to seek therapy for children or teens. The author suggests exploring all alternatives before turning to therapy. We also dive into the theme of internal vs. external locus of control, where the fear of making mistakes can lead to seeking external validation.
(34:25) Are doctors too quick to prescribe medications in non-serious cases?
(39:51) Where is the balance between taking every thought and emotion seriously vs. dismissing them? We discuss generational differences, stoic parenting, the importance of discussing feelings with a trusted friend or partner, and the impact on children who feel unheard.
(45:30) Similar to therapy and mental health, public sentiments on various topics can evolve over time. Nat, Neil, and Adil draw parallels with the changing views on vaccines, from widespread acceptance to increased skepticism post-Covid

“I believe that there is one story in the world, and only one. . . . Humans are caught—in their lives, in their thoughts, in their hungers and ambitions, in their avarice and cruelty, and in their kindness and generosity too—in a net of good and evil. . . . There is no other story. A man, after he has brushed off the dust and chips of his life, will have left only the hard, clean questions: Was it good or was it evil? Have I done well—or ill?”
Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Nat, Neil and Adil dive into John Steinbeck's masterpiece, East of Eden. Following the lives of two families, the Trasks and the Hamiltons, this novel ultimately reflects on the timeless struggle between darkness and light within the human soul.
We cover a wide range of topics including:
The timeless battle between good and evil Why having a fixed worldview can lead to hurt Parallels between East of Eden and the story of Cain and Abel A glimpse into what life was like at the start of the Great War How parents' actions impact their children's lives And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.
Links from the Episode:
Mentioned in the Show:
East of Eden movie (1:02:47) East of Eden Netflix series (1:03:21) Three-Body Problem series (1:03:46) Shantaram (TV series) (1:07:21) Harry Potter 20th Anniversary: Return to Hogwarts (1:10:41) Books Mentioned:
East of Eden (Nat's Book Notes) Flowers for Algernon (0:02) (Book Episode) Grapes of Wrath (0:59) Infinite Jest (4:23) (Book Episode 1) (Book Episode 2) (Nat’s Book Notes) The Three-Body Problem (6:32) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes) Atlas Shrugged (7:52) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes) Shantaram (1:06:46) Einstein’s Dreams (1:32:12) The Moon is Down (1:33:20) Lying (1:47:43) The Fountainhead (1:57:59) Bad Therapy (2:00:04) People Mentioned:
John Steinbeck John Gray (1:29:34) Ayn Rand (1:58:30) Show Topics:
(0:00) Today, we're diving into John Steinbeck's East of Eden, a novel that stood as a pinnacle in Steinbeck's illustrious career. We kick off the episode by exploring Steinbeck's candidness as shown in his accompanying journal.
(2:57) Nat, Neil, and Adil share their experience reading the book for the second time, each finding deeper connections to its major themes and characters this time around.
(6:27) We draw parallels between East of Eden and The Three-Body Problem contrasting their narrative styles. While East of Eden is emotionally impactful with rich characters, The Three-Body Problem unfolds in a flatter, more plot-driven world. Check out our episode on The Three-Body Problem if you haven't already!
(9:31) Discussing Steinbeck's immersive writing style, we explore how he vividly paints the environments and characters of the book, making us feel as though they are living within its pages.
(13:43) We delve into the characters of the novel, particularly Cathy, and how she shaped the narrative. Cathy doesn't always see the good, and often fails to take reponsibility for the things that happen to her. 
(16:04) The book follows two main families, the Trasks and the Hamiltons. There is a major parallel of "two sons" as Adam has two sons, Steinbeck has two sons, and Cain and Abel are two sons. 
(21:06) It wasn't the plot that drew us into the book, but rather the characters, and how they demonstrate the lessons taught in the novel. One of those lessons is the power of choice, and how you must take responsibility for your choices. 
(26:31) Listen in as we read an excerpt from Chapter 34 on the topic of good vs. evil, and how humans are caught in their lives, thoughts, ambitions. “Have I done well or ill?” 
(34:07) Adam has two sons, Aron and Caleb. Though theoretically, could Caleb be Charles’ son? We talk about the similarities between Charles and Caleb, and Adam and Aron. 
(37:38) Examining the allegory of Cain and Abel wi

"All the facts of science aren't enough to understand the world's meaning. For this, you must step outside the world."
Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're adventuring into the world of Logicomix, a graphic novel that takes us on a journey through the intricate life of mathematician Bertrand Russell. From the quest for precision that borders on madness to the historical events Russell was embroiled in, we'll explore the complexities of logic, philosophy, and mathematics.
We cover a wide range of topics including:
Why seeking precision in understanding the world can drive one mad Bertrand Russell's historical involvements and achievements The rapid progress of aviation and technology How mathematics, logic, and philosophy remain connected Discovering the lives and contributions of various mathematicians And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.
Links from the Episode:
Mentioned in the Show:
Prolific (1:06) Agrippan Trilemma (12:33) Münchhausen Trilemma (13:04) Kate Middleton photo (30:48) House of Lords (32:06) The Flaw in Gödel’s proof (57:59) Arnold (1:03:50) Political ETFs (1:13:49) Books Mentioned:
Logicomix East of Eden (0:03) (Nat's Book Notes) Of Mice and Men (0:21) The Grapes of Wrath (0:22) Watchmen (6:10) V for Vendetta (6:11) In Praise of Idleness (7:12) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes) Gödel, Escher, Bach (12:01) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes) The First World War (36:16) The Second World War (36:16) Banana King (1:00:45) Chip War (1:01:01) The Prize (1:01:23) Bad Therapy (1:02:46) Kon-Tiki (1:08:17) Endurance (1:09:40) People Mentioned:
Apostolos Doxiadis Christos Papadimitriou John Steinbeck (0:01) Bertrand Russell (6:51) Kurt Gödel (14:46) Ludwig Wittgenstein (20:49) Jordan Peterson (53:03) Show Topics:
(0:00) We kick off the episode by sharing John Steinbeck's journal writing process for East of Eden, his collaborative relationship with his publisher, and how he landed on the title. 
(5:25) Though we are not talking about East of Eden today (but...stay tuned for that episode up next!), we're covering Logicomix, a graphic novel by Apostolos Doxiadis and Christos Papadimitriou.

(8:16) We give an overview of the book and how it shares different intricacies and stories from Bertrand Russell's life. From his parents being in a throuple to schizophrenia running in his family, we try to decipher which parts were real vs. fabricated.
(10:36) Why you shouldn't necessarily look for precision and formal rules about how the world works. We tie this idea into Taoism which we’ve seen commonly in a few of our other recent reads. In short, no system can fully explain itself. You need to step outside of it.
(13:42) Is it possible to build a perfect map of everything that mathematics entails? We talk about the connection between logic, philosophy, and mathematics. 
(20:25) There were several mathematicians in the book. How many of them are you familiar with?
(23:36) Russell's involvement in a variety of historical events from the Cuban Missile Crisis to JFK's assassination, as he was not convinced that Oswald was guilty of the crime. 
(28:34) If you've been up-to-date with the news lately, you may be just as interested in the Kate Middleton conspiracies as we are. Tangent time!
(31:38) Russell was sat in the House of Lords, a chamber of UK Parliament which is generally not up for election. Plus, we brainstorm some ideas of who would be considered Bertrand Russell’s equivalent in the US.
(36:48) We dive in to some different historical events and wars. The Ottoman Empire, World War 1 and 2, the Persian Gulf War, and how warfare and aircraft carriers changed during these ages. 
(41:26) Aviation and its rapid improvements in technology in such a short span of time.
(45:07) "Shouldn't we get back to the book?" Nat, Neil, and Adil discuss some of the

"Oozification is the process of recursively replacing systems based on numerous larger building blocks, governed by many rules, with ones based on fewer, smaller building blocks, governed by fewer rules, thereby increasing the number of evolutionary possibilities and lowering the number of evolutionary certainties."
Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're discussing Fear of Oozification, an article by Venkatesh Rao. Get ready to explore the concept of ooziness in technology, learn the signs of oozification, and uncover why the ooze should (or should not) be feared.
We cover a wide range of topics including:
How oozification applies in technology, nature, and more The contrast between progressification and oozification Challenges in preserving our knowledge over time Humans' natural fear of unpredictability and uncertainty Why authority and trust may be victims of oozification And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.
Links from the Episode:
Mentioned in the Show:
Fear of Oozification Chrony Beliefs (0:32) (Book Episode) Oozy Intelligence in Slow Time (7:32) Sopranos Autopsy blog (30:44) StumbleUpon (31:27) The Honey Diet (35:57) Vesuvius Challenge (45:24) Phorevr (49:05) The Gervais Principle (51:48) The Premium Mediocre Life of Maya Millennial (51:51) Books Mentioned:
The Three-Body Problem (1:42) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes) Permutation City (1:44) (Book Episode) Flowers for Algernon (1:48) (Book Episode) East of Eden (1:52) Logicomix (2:01) Seeing Like A State (23:30) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes) The Anthology of Balaji (38:22) Flatland (58:14) Watchmen (58:30) V for Vendetta (58:55) People Mentioned:
Venkatesh Rao @anabology (32:06) Show Topics:
(0:00) Welcome back to Made You Think! We kick off this episode by sharing our reading progress for the upcoming books on the podcast as well as anything else we’re reading (or re-reading) outside of it.
(5:32) Nat notes his experience with re-reading The Three-Body Problem series, the different pacing of each of the books, and other minor details that stuck out while going through it a second time.
(6:43) Today, we're covering Fear of Oozification, an article by Venkatesh Rao. Nat, Neil, and Adil dive into the author's definition of oozification, and more specifically, how it applies within certain technologies such as the computer and phone.
(10:52) What makes something more or less oozy? We think of the ooziness of nature where we frequently envision stable environments such as a forest or meadow. However, when a major change or catastrophe takes place, the landscape has to evolve and its trajectory changes.
(14:36) Progressification vs oozification: In contrast to oozing, you can make steady and predictable progress within technology, for example.
(16:50) We share our main takeaways from the article, debate what the author's view on oozification is, and how the author got his argument across. 
(23:18) How oozification will happen regardless of the natural linear progression that we're on in the world of technology. As we progress and create new technologies, each new piece of tech will ooze in its own way.
(26:27) Naturally, we fear the unpredictability of the future. What is it about oozification that we are more fearful of than just the unpredictability of the future? Plus, the new era of the internet vs. how things used to be in the world of blogging and social media.
(31:43) Decentering and simplifying. We talk a bit about an individual health blog written in just plain text. Check it out here if you're curious!
(37:39) Trust and authority, and how that links in with oozification. Nowadays, it's nearly easier to verify truth and accuracy in individuals rather than in large accredited institutions.
(41:06) When something is oozed so far away from the fundamental state that we won’t know how to recrea

“I don’t know what’s worse: to not know what you are and be happy, or to become what you’ve always wanted to be, and feel alone.”
Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! Today, we're delving into Flowers for Algernon by Daniel Keyes. Join us as we take you through the journey of an intellectually disabled man who undergoes a procedure with the hopes of increasing his mental abilities. We'll unpack several themes that resonate deeply with the human experience, and seek to get our questions answered on what it truly means to be intelligent.
We cover a wide range of topics including:
The relationship between intelligence and loneliness Whether the experiment actually made Charlie worse off Influence of social norms and media on individual beliefs and behaviors The existence (or lack of) internal dialogues How handicapped people are often viewed and treated And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.
Links from the Episode:
Mentioned in the Show:
Apple Vision Pro (0:01) Rabbit (0:56) Playdate (2:41) Slack (3:54) Lambda Technologies (4:16) Discord (5:17) Flowers for Algernon Wiki (14:41) Internal dialogues (42:01) Reddit thread on Internal Dialogues (43:45)  Texas Tower shooting of 1966 (53:49) The Crowded Room (1:14:04)  Books Mentioned:
Flowers for Algernon Infinite Jest (Book Episode 1) (Book Episode 2) (Nat’s Book Notes) Enders Game (30:45) The Three-Body Problem (30:46) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes) Permutation City (31:36) (Book Episode) Straw Dogs (48:02) (Book Episode) The Minds of Billy Milligan (1:13:42) East of Eden (1:18:12) (Nat's Book Notes) Logicomix (1:21:02) People Mentioned:
Daniel Keyes Sam Altman (5:53) Sam Harris (53:24) David Foster Wallace (58:49) Michael Chang (1:15:02) John Steinbeck (1:17:15) Show Topics:
(0:00) We open the show by talking about new hardware innovations on the horizon from Apple’s Vision Pro to the pocket-sized Rabbit. 
(3:23) As it's become increasingly easier to make software, what will this mean for SaaS companies and the future of software?
(6:18) Today we’re talking about Flowers for Algernon by Daniel Keyes. The book takes us on the journey of a severely handicapped man who enters into an experiment in order to increase his intelligence. There will be spoilers so if you're planning on reading the book, we suggest you do that before listening to this episode!
(12:28) Through Charlie's progression and regression, we get a glimpse into his levels of intelligence, awareness, and loneliness. He finds himself lonelier the more intelligent he becomes because as he gains more awareness, he learns that some people aren't truly his friends.
(13:21) There seems to be a human desire to improve no matter what. Nat, Neil, and Adil debate whether Charlie was better or worse off in the end than he was at the start of his journey.
(18:35) We discuss some of the other characters in the story and what their relationship with Charlie is like. Notably, Alice is one of the only people who saw him as a person throughout his whole life, even before he gained his intelligence. 
(22:00) Charlie's family life and how the author wrote each of their closures with Charlie, or lack thereof. 
(25:12) Despite Alice being a very positive figure in Charlie’s life, you could make the argument that he didn't treat her very well. Regardless, Alice kept her hope and optimism in every situation.
(28:18) Though the book is classified as science fiction, it also poses instances of moral philosophy. Showcased by the author were examples of how people with mental or physical disabilities are treated by others, both obviously and subtly. 
(32:52) One of the symbols in the story was a window that Charlie would watch the world through. It was a way for him to interpret his disconnection from society. Throughout the story, Charlie makes progress once he acknowledges himse

“If you believe that humans are animals, there can be no such thing as the history of humanity, only the lives of particular humans. If we speak of the history of the species at all, it is only to signify the unknowable sum of these lives. As with other animals, some lives are happy, others wretched. None has a meaning that lies beyond itself.”
Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! This week, we’re diving into discussion on Straw Dogs by John Gray. From questioning moral structures to pondering the collective soul, we'll journey through the philosophical landscape of Straw Dogs, examining technology, lifespans, and the very essence of humanism.
We cover a wide range of topics including:
Connections between Straw Dogs and Taoism Whether becoming more moral as a society is possible Individualistic vs collectivistic ways of thinking Gray's critique on the idea that humans are special over animals Technology, striving, and human progress And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.
Links from the Episode:
Mentioned in the Show:
Gaia hypothesis (2:45) The Vulnerable World Hypothesis (25:50) The Expanse (52:28) 3 Body Problem (52:31) Silo (52:36) Dark Matter (52:41) Books Mentioned:
Straw Dogs  Novacene (2:41) (Book Episode) Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance (7:47) (Book Episode) Lila (27:18) Tao Te Ching (29:14) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes) The Fourth Turning (36:22) (Book Episode) Four Thousand Weeks (36:36) Feline Philosophy (39:03) The Way of Zen (43:11) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes) Happy Accidents (45:24) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes) Dark Matter (55:33) The Redemption of Time (59:00) The New Leviathans (1:02:08) People Mentioned:
John Gray James Lovelock (2:40) Nick Bostrom (25:46) Max Planck (32:50) Andrew Yang (Book Episode) Alan Watts (43:12) Show Topics:
(0:00) In today’s episode, we’re covering Straw Dogs by John Gray. We kick off the episode by sharing our overall impressions of the book and connect it to one of our previous reads, Novacene.
(3:23) How would we summarize this book? Nat, Neil, and Adil share their interpretation of the book in their own words, comparing and contrasting their summaries.
(8:19) We discuss the disparity between our aspirations for progress and the reality of human nature, exploring how societal foundations have shifted.
(12:35) Examining John Gray's argument, we delve into the book's six sections, analyzing its reflections on human nature, morality, and the essence of progress. 
(14:55) Are we evolutionarily any different from other animal species? We share the example of a hive of white ants, and their contributions to the collective vs. the individual.
(18:19) Measuring happiness and progress are both tricky. Plus, is it more harmful than beneficial to have faith in humanity and progress?
(23:11) We pull out some of our key quotes from the book about technology, evolution, and the collective. Technology is not a human-only thing, and over time, new technologies will continue to emerge.
(29:55) Differences between Robert Persig’s and John Gray's ideas. We look at whether our views on life can change and how science fits into all of this.
(36:12) Gray appears anti-striving, with ideals that we shouldn't try to control life or we'll end up disappointed in the end.
(41:30) To strive or not to strive? We talk about the evolution of technology, it's accessibility in today's age, and the hard work that has happened in order for tech to progress. 
(46:48) Black holes and string theory and dark matter. Oh my! We chat about some cool scientific theories and how they affect our understanding of the world.
(50:59) Lots of sci-fi books are being made into tv shows and hitting the major streaming services. Nat, Neil, and Adil list a few that they're excited about.
(59:42) Don’t judge a book by the Goodreads reviews! If yo