THE WONDER: Science-Based Paganism The Wonder Podcast

Remember, we welcome comments, questions, and suggested topics at thewonderpodcastQs@gmail.com
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Mark: Welcome back to The Wonder, Science-Based Paganism. I'm your host, Mark.
Yucca: And I'm Yucca.
Mark: And today we are talking about golden ages of the past and as well as turning to look at golden visions of the future.
Yucca: Yeah. I think this is going to be a fun one. We were saying right before we hit record, it's it's a right for tangents as well.
Mark: yes, yeah, I imagine we're gonna, we're gonna fall down some rabbit holes on this for sure. Where this originally came from was a conversation that we had in one of the atheopagan community Zoom mixers that happens on Thursday nights, and, or and Michael, who is a member of the Atheopagan Society Council, raised this as a topic and he pasted into the chat a sort of semi facetious myth That many in the mainstream pagan community seem to embrace, which is this idea that once upon a time way back before before the Bronze Age, sometime in the late Either the Copper Age or the Late Stone Age, that there were people living in Asia Minor and in Europe who lived peacefully and in an egalitarian society where that were not characterized by patriarchy and where things were very groovy.
Yucca: Mm hmm.
Mark: That patriarchy came along with these bronze sword wielding invaders and the result was militarism and class stratification and eventually the snowball that led us to capitalism and to where we are today. 
Yucca: Very familiar with the story and the narrative. It pops up in a lot of different forms.
Mark: It certainly does. And it's a compelling narrative, right? Because part of what it tells us is it's not inherent in humans to be the way we are now,
Yucca: Mm hmm.
Mark: you know, that having a male dominated society is not just a human thing, that it's A cultural thing that took over
Yucca: Mm
Mark: from something that preceded it.
And so it's understandable why that's appealing, because it offers hope, right? It says, well, we could get out from what we're in now. We could move in another direction. So, there's a lot of this backward looking, kind of nostalgic glow in these sort of root myths that inform much of modern paganism. Would you agree with that?
Yucca: I think so. And I think that there's also the more recent ideas of the unbroken line of Grandmothers practicing this witchy tradition that was secret, but it survived through, you know, all of the Christian takeover and, and all of this and that, that connects in a little bit with an idea that we have that something that's old is automatically good.
Or, automatically has more authority because it's an older idea.
Mark: Right, that it's valid, because it's persistent,
Yucca: Yeah.
Mark: right, because it's lasted for a long time, it must have some kind of validity. Yeah, that's a really good point, and it's definitely something that crops up a lot in arguments about religion generally, not just about paganism or witchcraft.
Yucca: Right.
Mark: Of course, that was Gerald Gardner's story.
Right, Gerald Gardner, the creator of Wicca although he claimed that he wasn't the creator of Wicca, he claimed that he was initiated into a lineage of, an unbroken lineage extending back into the mists of time of this tradition of witchcraft.
Yucca: Mm hmm.
Mark: maybe he believed that, maybe he didn't, but it's been pretty well established that it's not true.
Yucca: Right.
Mark: there's a, there's a book by the, the, pagan and witchcraft scholar Ronald Hutton, called The Triumph of the Moon, which very thoroughly and meticulously goes over all the different threads of this and establishes there's not really much there there.
Yucca: Mm hmm.
Mark: Great book, great book, highly recommend it. So, so that's another of these, you know, these stories about antiquity.
Holding a different way of being that we, that we need to grab onto and try to work our way back to, right?
Yucca: Right.
Mark: And I was thinking about t

Remember, we welcome comments, questions, and suggested topics at thewonderpodcastQs@gmail.com
This big eclipse post has nearly all the links:   https://naturalisticpaganism.org/2024/02/24/just-44-days-to-the-eclipse-finalize-those-plans-now-heres-a-ritual-too/#more-23086
Including these links:   *Naturalistic Pagan Spiritual Pilgrimages
 *Eclipse timer app
*Eclipse parties
*Google map
*Location idea links
*Fully prepared Ritual
*How to make a Cosmala
**Eclipse Portals + other info at this link:  https://naturalisticpaganism.org/2024/03/25/what-are-eclipse-portals-heres-how-you-can-create-one-yourself/#more-23247
 
**Cloud cover forecast – check a day or two before the eclipse:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2024/03/29/cloud-cover-eclipse-forecast-maps-cities/
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Mark: Welcome to The Wonder, Science Based Paganism. I'm your host, Mark,
Yucca: And I'm Yucca,
Mark: and it's equinox time again. Time for that holiday that's at the midpoint between the dark of the, the dark side of the year and the light side of the year and for many, the coming of spring or the height of spring. And we're going to talk about all that stuff and how you practice rituals around it and what it means to us.
Yucca: that's right. So, happy spring! Or autumn, depending on where you're listening from.
Mark: Depending on where you're listening from, and as I understand it, Yucca, it is snowing where you are.
Yucca: It happens to be snowing today, yep.
Mark: happy hope of spring.
Yucca: Yes, it has sounded like spring, and it has felt like spring. It's just today it decided it was not. Not quite there. So, but it's a wet snow too, so it's not, it's not gonna stick around. It's
Mark: Huh.
Yucca: as soon as there's any sun, it'll be gone. But yeah, how about for you?
Mark: Oh, it's a beautiful day. It's going to be in the mid 70s today. And clear skies with some nice puffy clouds. We, here, the daffodils are already finished.
Yucca: Oh, mine are just poking up there a few inches, starting to grow out of the ground right now. Okay,
Mark: different, different climates we're in. Yeah, so it's been, you know, we have a number of fruit trees around the neighborhood that are blooming right now, and
Yucca: no more frosts for you at this
Mark: no, I don't think so. I'd be very surprised if we had any more frosts.
Yucca: Okay, so it's, it's spring for you. You're into spring. It's not hints of spring, it's spring itself.
Mark: Right, well, that's why on my Wheel of the Year, I call this holiday High Spring. Because spring, where I am, because we have a climate so moderated by the Pacific Ocean it, we get the earliest wildflowers around the end of January. And, you know, acacia trees bloom in the, in February, and that's when daffodils start coming up.
And tulips, which never bloom unless you take them out and put them in the freezer and then put them in. Again and hyacinths and all those kinds of nice things. We have a hyacinth bulb blooming in our living room right now, making the whole house smell delicious.
Yucca: Oh, lovely.
Mark: yeah. Yeah, that was a score from Trader Joe's, amazingly.
They had these little, little jars that had a receptacle in the top to hold a bulb. And the, the bottom part is filled with water, and so the roots grow down into there. So, You know, you take it home and a day later or something, because they've just removed it from refrigeration, it sprouts a big spike and leaves and blooms and it makes a beautiful smell.
Yucca: Do you get to see the roots?
Mark: Yes, yeah, it's a clear glass, yeah, it's a clear glass container, so you see the roots going down. Yeah, yeah.
Yucca: Yeah. Well, this year, the, the Equinox is early. Now, of course, it's not that it's actually early, it's just that our calendar doesn't quite line up with the actual orbit of our planet, but it's, in my time zone, it'll be on the 19th,
Mark: Ours too,
Yucca: in the, yeah, so for folks who are in Europe and furth

Remember, we welcome comments, questions, and suggested topics at thewonderpodcastQs@gmail.com
----more----
 
Mark: Welcome to The Wonder, Science Based Paganism. I'm your host, Mark,
Yucca: And I'm Yucca,
Mark: and it's equinox time again. Time for that holiday that's at the midpoint between the dark of the, the dark side of the year and the light side of the year and for many, the coming of spring or the height of spring. And we're going to talk about all that stuff and how you practice rituals around it and what it means to us.
Yucca: that's right. So, happy spring! Or autumn, depending on where you're listening from.
Mark: Depending on where you're listening from, and as I understand it, Yucca, it is snowing where you are.
Yucca: It happens to be snowing today, yep.
Mark: happy hope of spring.
Yucca: Yes, it has sounded like spring, and it has felt like spring. It's just today it decided it was not. Not quite there. So, but it's a wet snow too, so it's not, it's not gonna stick around. It's
Mark: Huh.
Yucca: as soon as there's any sun, it'll be gone. But yeah, how about for you?
Mark: Oh, it's a beautiful day. It's going to be in the mid 70s today. And clear skies with some nice puffy clouds. We, here, the daffodils are already finished.
Yucca: Oh, mine are just poking up there a few inches, starting to grow out of the ground right now. Okay,
Mark: different, different climates we're in. Yeah, so it's been, you know, we have a number of fruit trees around the neighborhood that are blooming right now, and
Yucca: no more frosts for you at this
Mark: no, I don't think so. I'd be very surprised if we had any more frosts.
Yucca: Okay, so it's, it's spring for you. You're into spring. It's not hints of spring, it's spring itself.
Mark: Right, well, that's why on my Wheel of the Year, I call this holiday High Spring. Because spring, where I am, because we have a climate so moderated by the Pacific Ocean it, we get the earliest wildflowers around the end of January. And, you know, acacia trees bloom in the, in February, and that's when daffodils start coming up.
And tulips, which never bloom unless you take them out and put them in the freezer and then put them in. Again and hyacinths and all those kinds of nice things. We have a hyacinth bulb blooming in our living room right now, making the whole house smell delicious.
Yucca: Oh, lovely.
Mark: yeah. Yeah, that was a score from Trader Joe's, amazingly.
They had these little, little jars that had a receptacle in the top to hold a bulb. And the, the bottom part is filled with water, and so the roots grow down into there. So, You know, you take it home and a day later or something, because they've just removed it from refrigeration, it sprouts a big spike and leaves and blooms and it makes a beautiful smell.
Yucca: Do you get to see the roots?
Mark: Yes, yeah, it's a clear glass, yeah, it's a clear glass container, so you see the roots going down. Yeah, yeah.
Yucca: Yeah. Well, this year, the, the Equinox is early. Now, of course, it's not that it's actually early, it's just that our calendar doesn't quite line up with the actual orbit of our planet, but it's, in my time zone, it'll be on the 19th,
Mark: Ours too,
Yucca: in the, yeah, so for folks who are in Europe and further east, it'll be the early morning of the 20th, but for those of us in North America, it'll It's the evening of the 19th already, so,
Mark: right.
Yucca: yeah,
Mark: and I mean obviously the main reason for that is the leap year. The ex the extra day that got inserted into the calendar in order to make things work out. But I mean, sometimes the Equinox is as late as the 21st. 
Yucca: 22nd
Mark: yeah, sometimes the early, early hours of the 22nd as well. So this is an early one that lands on Tuesday.
But as with all things, I just tend to celebrate about a week of the season.
Yucca: around, yeah, and it interestingly is not technically the day of equal daytime and nighttime.
Mark: right.
Yucca: There'

https://www.llewellyn.com/product.php?ean=9780738775364
 
Season 5 - Episode 7
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Yucca: Welcome back to The Wonder, Science Based Paganism. I'm your host, Yucca.
Mark: And I'm Mark.
Yucca: And today, we have an episode I'm actually really quite excited for. It's going to be a little bit different. Mark, you have a book coming out in less than a month. So, yes, at long last, and we're going to talk a little bit about that.
So I'm going to ask you some questions, and hopefully this is something that our listeners are going to be really interested in. So, can you Tell us what, what book.
Mark: Well, the book is called Round We Dance, Creating Meaning Through Seasonal Rituals, and it's coming out from Llewellyn. It'll be released on April 8th which is also the day of the eclipse, the solar eclipse that's happening here in North America. And
Yucca: Get your glasses,
Mark: yes, get your
Yucca: of totality, you'll still be able to see it if you're in the lower 48.
Mark: Yep. Yeah. I have already gotten my glasses. In fact, I ordered them after the last time we talked about this. So, that's, that's the book. It's kind of a follow on book to the Atheopaganism book in some ways. But it's also meant for a broader audience.
Yucca: Okay, so it's not branded specifically as atheopagan, but is it, it's branded as pagan in general? Do you say that's
Mark: Well, it's, it's, it's not even really branded as pagan in general. Now, in the text of the book, I talk about Atheopaganism. And it's values and practices and ideas among other things. But the book itself is really intended for anyone who doesn't have a spirituality in their life right now and really wants one.
You know, for, for folks, for example, who belong to the so called nuns. The, the people that express no religious affiliation, maybe they've left Christianity or Islam or, um, or they're, they're just atheists or agnostics many of those folks who come into our community, the atheopagan community find that they're, they want something that gives their life a sense of meaning and a sense of connectedness to what's happening here on earth and in the universe.
In some cases, they want to have a value set that they can impart to their children,
Yucca: hmm.
Mark: You know, and ritual practices that they can conduct with their families. This book is for those folks.
Yucca: Okay.
Mark: You know, basically, it's a book for anybody who wants to develop a ritual practice.
Yucca: Mm. And what about people who They already identify maybe as atheopagan and are just getting started or looking to deepen their practice
Mark: Oh, for sure. Yeah, this, this book, it'll, it'll serve as a great resource for folks like our listeners. Who you know, they have you know, it's like we have the equinox coming up right now, right? So, you know, you can turn to the section about the spring equinox in the book and get some ideas for themes and ritual activities, recipes, craft projects And that's true of all of the Wheel of the Year celebrations.
It's true of all of the Rites of Passage. So it, it really goes into some, some degree of extensive coverage of different ritual techniques and reasons for having rituals.
Yucca: hmm. So this sounds a lot more like a how to book than your first book, right? The first book you were really digging into the, the what and the sort of intellectual side of things. What's this all about? And this is the how to practice. Mm
Mark: That's right. The first book was mostly an idea book. It essentially told the story of how I had gone through, An internal exploration about, you know, what is a religion, and how can I get the benefits of religion without having to believe in the supernatural? You know, how could that work? And then the second part of the book, the first book was about describing atheopaganism as one implementation of a non supernatural religious path.
That was focused on the, on the earth. This book is much more, as you say, a how to. It gives

EARTH PATH by Starhawk
COMPLEXITY by Mitchell Waldrop
RED MARS by Kim Stanley Robinson 
CHAOS by James Gleick
UNSCHOOLED by Kerry McDonald
THE PAGAN BOOK OF LIVING AND DYING by Starhawk and M. Macha Nightmare
ALWAYS COMING HOME by Ursula K. LeGuin
DIGITAL MINIMALISM by Cal Newport
GOOD WITHOUT GOD by Greg M. Epstein
To order Mark's new book, visit https://llewellyn.com/product.php?ean=9780738775364