Polite Conversations Eiynah

In part 2 of this conversation we get into more specific concerns - issues about responsible framing, softballing, etc.

At what point do we recognize and consciously not contribute to maintaining the perception of “reasonable intellectual” for someone as far gone (imo) as Harris? At what point has he crossed the line into being as embarrassing as say … Bret Weinstein? We explore all these questions and more.
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If you enjoy the show pls consider supporting via patreon.com/nicemangos and by leaving an Apple Podcasts or Spotify review.

Links

NYT Investigation: Israel Used 'Most Destructive' Bombs in Areas Designated as Safe in South Gaza Strip:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-22/ty-article/nyt-investigation-israel-used-one-ton-bombs-in-safe-zones-in-south-gaza/0000018c-91f4-d47c-a7fd-dbfcc0bb0000

During the first six weeks of the war in Gaza, Israel routinely used one of its biggest and most destructive bombs in areas it designated safe for civilians, according to an analysis of visual evidence by The New York Times.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/21/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-bomb-investigation.html

Children 5-8, carried to the emergency room by their parents, all had single sniper shots to the head: https://x.com/latimes/status/1758587564397597168?s=61&t=w7q_ejvwZ_gCFj9WV50Lqw

Rami Igra, previously head of the Captive & Missing Division in the Mossad, says there are no uninvolved civilians in Gaza over the age of four
https://x.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1757837275830907052?s=61&t=w7q_ejvwZ_gCFj9WV50Lqw

Israel Created 'Kill Zones' in Gaza. Anyone Who Crosses Into Them Is Shot. The Israeli army says 9,000 terrorists have been killed since the Gaza war began. Defense officials and soldiers, however, tell Haaretz that these are often civilians whose only crime was to cross an invisible line drawn by the IDF
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-03-31/ty-article-magazine/.premium/israel-created-kill-zones-in-gaza-anyone-who-crosses-into-them-is-shot/0000018e-946c-d4de-afee-f46da9ee0000

This is part 1 of a 2 part conversation. Part 2 is available early via patreon.com/nicemangos. 

Join me for a discussion with Chris Kavanagh of the Decoding the Gurus Podcast. In part one we chat more about the broader questions …like the eternal ‘litmus test’ question of “Is Sam Harris Rightwing?” and I try to get a sense of Chris’ own politics and positions.

On the surface Chris and I would probably vote the same, and we’re both critics of the heterodox/IDWsphere but our output is framed very differently, I think our motivations and goals with it are  perhaps vastly different as well. We get into that and more in part 2.
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If you enjoy the show pls consider supporting via patreon.com/nicemangos and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts/Spotify

Links:
Fastest decline in a population ever recorded https://x.com/medicalaidpal/status/1763172220900151317?s=61&t=w7q_ejvwZ_gCFj9WV50Lqw

Biggest cohort of paediatric amputees https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/the-children-who-lost-limbs-in-gaza

Law for Palestine Releases Database with 500+ Instances of Israeli Incitement to Genocide – Continuously Updated https://law4palestine.org/law-for-palestine-releases-database-with-500-instances-of-israeli-incitement-to-genocide-continuously-updated/

IDF removing children without consent from Gaza https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-said-to-transport-gazan-orphans-to-west-bank-via-israel-without-cabinets-ok/

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2024/1/2/israeli-soldier-brought-baby-back-to-israel-from-gaza

Israeli Cabinet Members Join Event Calling for Ethnic Cleansing & Resettlement of Gaza https://youtu.be/7J0_J3Qy6YY?si=clqZe5x8DH1rfCe4

Israeli Ministers attend conference calling for ‘voluntary migration’ of Palestinians   https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/29/israeli-ministers-attend-conference-calling-for-voluntary-migration-of-palestinians

My miniseries on Sam Harris that Chris mentioned: Woking Up https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1caIpbHnvDjKu0Ph4DA0Nb?si=ab7b7bfcbfc14185

DTG’s recent conversation with Harris: https://open.spotify.com/episode/75PdQjoEnvfn6aHev5Xjuf?si=9RSwlQ4vS4qt1BzEk1Bjww

I joined my friend Daniel of the I Don’t Speak German Podcast for a chat recently, to quote their description of the episode; “to talk about Israel’s genocide in Gaza, and in particular about some questions that have come up around IDSG’s public response to it.”

Find IDSG here: https://idontspeakgerman.libsyn.com/public-bonus-talking-about-gaza-with-eiynah-mohammed-smith and @idsgpod on Twitter.

You can find the Twitter Space mentioned in the episode here: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1dYrfZKfFpdib1zbSnMtQZ?si=7MZzHfT1Qh6ZFnCyIsdw0w

My guest for this episode is Jason Lemieux, who formerly worked for The CFI (Center for Inquiry) A US secular non-profit organization where Richard Dawkins is a board member. The Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason & Science is a subsidiary of CFI.

Join us as we cover the bizarreness & bigotry of increasingly embarrassing Atheist public figure Richard Dawkins.

If you enjoy the show pls consider supporting via patreon.com/nicemangos or by leaving a 5 star review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.

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Links:

Dawkins’ recent Cultural Christian clip: https://x.com/lbc/status/1774510715975368778?s=61&t=w7q_ejvwZ_gCFj9WV50Lqw

Dawkins’ Church bells tweet: x.com/RichardDawkins/status/1018933359978909696?s=20

Dawkins’ non-entities tweet: x.com/RichardDawkins/status/1463750520603131907?s=20

Dawkins’ eugenics-y views on Down Syndrome: https://x.com/brokenbottleboy/status/1393882552264499202?s=61&t=w7q_ejvwZ_gCFj9WV50Lqw

CFI’s archived note re: Kavin Senapathy https://web.archive.org/web/20201030180906/https://centerforinquiry.org/reposting/ Vs the one they have up https://centerforinquiry.org/reposting/

Dawkins loses Humanist of the Year title https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/apr/20/richard-dawkins-loses-humanist-of-the-year-trans-comments

David Silverman fired after allegations: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/peteraldhous/david-silverman-atheist-fired-sexual-misconduct

Thread re: the whole merge-gate saga https://x.com/nicemangos/status/1406646731933167619?s=61&t=

Salon article that was mentioned in the conversation re: merge-gate -

Godless Grifters: How the New Atheists merged with the Far Right https://www.salon.com/2021/06/05/how-the-new-atheists-merged-with-the-far-right-a-story-of-intellectual-grift-and-abject-surrender/

Rolling stone article that was mentioned in the conversation: Study Shows How the ‘Intellectual Dark Web’ Is a Gateway to the Far Right https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/youtube-far-right-radicalization-study-877061/

My miniseries on Sam Harris, ‘Woking Up’ https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1caIpbHnvDjKu0Ph4DA0Nb?si=c3ef3e89db914464

This is a SAMPLE version of the episode, access the full episode via patreon.com/nicemangos

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Join me for an unexpected but fascinating chat that arose from the previous panel episodes on Germany, Identity & Palestine. I knew that one of my panelists (Claus) had been raised far-right and since shed those beliefs, but I had no idea just *how* far-right …

Strap yourselves in for a very wild, rollercoaster of a conversation. Major CONTENT WARNING: There’s talk of bigotry, nazi cults, smuggling, murder, suicide, white supremacy, and more horrific stuff. So please proceed with caution.

We discuss the skeptic scene and how rapidly it’s devolved, Michael Shermer in particular comes up. I also try to gauge and assess just how fashy Claus’s upbringing was, was it overtly and explicitly fash, was it IDWesque in trying to mask the bigotry… or was it a bit of both?

Claus peels back the layers and helps us understand what got him out of that bigoted worldview, what kind of damage it did to the people around him, and how he sees echoes of it in present day culty, conspiracist circles.

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Links

Eric Ludendorff:

“The Nazis distanced themselves from Ludendorff because of his eccentric conspiracy theories

In 1926, Ludendorff divorced Margarethe Schmidt and married his second wife Mathilde von Kemnitz (1877–1966). They published books and essays claiming that the world's problems were the result of Christianity, especially the Jesuits and Catholics, but also conspiracies by Jews and the Freemasons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Ludendorff

Claus briefly mentioned Derek Black’s story:

Derek Black is an American former white supremacist. He is the son of Don Black, founder of the Stormfront online community, and godson of former Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard David Duke. He publicly renounced white nationalism and chronicled his personal journey away from his family's beliefs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Black

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/24/651052970/how-a-rising-star-of-white-nationalism-broke-free-from-the-movement

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/01/derek-black-new-college-desantis-plan.html

Claus Also mentioned Zundel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Zündel

Ernst Christof Friedrich Zündel (German: [ˈtsʏndl̩]; 24 April 1939 – 5 August 2017) was a German neo-Nazi publisher and pamphleteer of Holocaust denial literature. He was jailed several times: in Canada for publishing literature "likely to incite hatred against an identifiable group", and on charges of being a threat to national security; in the United States, for overstaying his visa; and in Germany for charges of "inciting racial hatred". He lived in Canada from 1958 to 2000.

David Silverman: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/peteraldhous/david-silverman-atheist-fired-sexual-misconduct

Join us for part 2 of this Panel on wtf is going on in Germany.

My German guests include Ilyas who is a German Muslim, Claus is a German who was raised with very right-wing views but has since shed them, and we also have John who has a Master’s degree in German Studies and lived there as an exchange student.

We discuss aspects of German identity, history, nationalism and the thinking behind some of the blind and bizarre support we see for Israel, the stifling of pro-Palestinian views - especially in the arts, the treatment of left leaning Jewish people who are critical of Israel, the Herero & Nama genocide, the ICJ, ex-muslims & ‘liberal’ Muslims in Germany becoming tools of the right, & more.
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All guests on the Aftershow are Patrons of the Polite Conversations. Truly amazing to get to chat with fascinating patrons of the show from all around the world.

Subscribe via Patreon to access the full episode. If you enjoy the show pls consider supporting via patreon.com/nicemangos and/or leaving a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
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Links:

In case u are unfamiliar with trump-voting ‘liberal muslim’ Asra Nomani, here’s a book she wrote
https://x.com/ilyasibnkarim/status/1674447440785686530?s=61&t=w7q_ejvwZ_gCFj9WV50Lqw

Masha Gessen: Hannah Arendt would not qualify for the Hannah Arendt prize in Germany today https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/18/hannah-arendt-prize-masha-gessen-israel-gaza-essay

Masha Gessen: In the Shadow of the Holocaust https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-weekend-essay/in-the-shadow-of-the-holocaust

Germany officially recognises colonial-era Namibia genocide: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57279008

Germany Officially Recognizes It Committed Genocide In Present-Day Namibia https://www.npr.org/2021/05/28/1001233776/germany-officially-recognizes-it-committed-genocide-in-present-day-namibia

How Germany’s colonial genocide shapes Namibia today https://x.com/ayakibrahim/status/1746289541097415017?s=61&t=w7q_ejvwZ_gCFj9WV50Lqw

Germany Is Known for Its Heavily Funded, Thriving Art Scene. But a Slew of Cancellations Is Threatening That Reputation: https://news.artnet.com/art-world/germany-cancellations-2407316

We're starting to see Germans assert that they are sole arbiters of Holocaust memory and understand it on a deeper level than Jewish descendants https://x.com/davidgross_man/status/1735312154905981153?s=61&t=w7q_ejvwZ_gCFj9WV50Lqw

Germany: checkpoints in Palestinian neighbourhood https://x.com/ruairi_casey/status/1741813613843640496?s=61&t=w7q_ejvwZ_gCFj9WV50Lqw

An association sponsored by the Federal Foreign Office calls for international law violations: https://x.com/hahauenstein/status/1747251240600506631?s=61&t=w7q_ejvwZ_gCFj9WV50Lqw

Marione Ingram is an 88-year-old Holocaust survivor and peace activist who has been demanding a ceasefire in Gaza. She just had a series of talks canceled in Germany, for which she says she never got a real explanation. https://x.com/democracynow/status/1747983242186125383?s=61&t=w7q_ejvwZ_gCFj9WV50Lqw

On Candice Breitz - Germany smothering the Arts: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/22/germany-antisemitism-israel-gaza-arts-censorship/

Candice Breitz https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/dec/07/a-frenzy-of-judgement-artist-candice-breitz-on-her-german-show-being-pulled-over-gaza

On Adam Bromberg: Germany is Criminalising Palestinian Solidarity https://tribunemag.co.uk/2023/06/germany-is-criminalising-palestinian-solidarity

German official targets Jewish artist over alleged anti-Semitism for criticising Israel Occupation https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230202-german-official-targets-jewish-artist-over-alleged-anti-semitism-for-criticising-israel-occupation/