The Messy City Podcast

Kevin Klinkenberg
  • 4.9 (28)
  • Design

Embracing change, uncertainty and local initiative for our cities and towns kevinklinkenberg.substack.com

  1. 3d ago

    Talking About the Least Bad Tax

    For a lot of years, I’ve been a bit loathe to dive deep into the land value tax topic. I’m not entirely sure why that is - it might be that the proponents have a sort of religious zeal for it. LVT seems to be a possible cure-all for all that ails our cities and towns, and I suppose it reminds me of the expansive view of New Urbanism in the early years. As my friend John Anderson used to say, New Urbanism won’t solve tooth decay - it’s just a better way to design and build communities. This, I suppose, in my Midwestern reluctance to make broad, sweeping statements, is also true of land value tax. It simply seems like a much better way to assess property, and better align the incentives of owners with those who want to see a place improve. It won’t solve world peace, nor will it be a salve for every problem of mankind. But, it does seem pretty darn smart. Lars Doucet graciously joins me to talk through the basics of land value tax, and also answer some questions from a property tax skeptic (me). Lars has a terrific Substack that dives much deeper, called Progress and Poverty. Check it out. If I have but one wish through all this, it’s for people to understand your property taxes are a two-part formula. It’s your assessment x your millage levy or levies. One is fairly technical, and the other is very political. Know the difference, and know where to direct your anger should you be upset with your local tax bill. And keep in mind, there might just be a better way to do the assessment. Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page. Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5. Intro: “Why Be Friends” Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

  2. Oct 20

    A Conversation with Chris Arnade

    I first came across Chris Arnade with the rollout of his book, “Dignity: Seeking Respect in Back Row America.” It’s a terrific book, and explores community, human struggle and American cities and towns in ways that most books do not. He sort of became “the McDonald’s guy” after that book, but it’s really so much more. Over the last few years, Chris has been writing a Substack called “Chris Arnade Walks the World.” I might effusively compliment Chris too much in this episode, but I truly mean it. His writing and approach to writing is truly unique, often surprising and always interesting. In a certain way, Chris’s writing has filled a void, for perhaps just me personally, that was left by the death of Anthony Bourdain. Now, that may seem a strange comparison, and Chris might not even enjoy it. But what Bourdain often did was to use food (and later martial arts) as a lever to trying to understand people better all over the world. As time went on, he also explored more and more places off the beaten path as he sought understanding beyond the travel magazines or websites, or beyond what most of us see when we travel internationally. Food and cooking is not Arnade’s schtick, but his writing (and photography) follow his own curiosity about people and culture that I see as a bit analogous to Bourdain. Arnade is looking through his own lens, and his own unique set of curiosities, but as a reader, I feel it still converges on striving to more deeply understand humans. And as someone who also occasionally writes about walking, I find a strong connection to this approach. In this episode, we cover some of the ground and topics that Arnade frequently covers, and diverge to talk more about places that surprise him, and what his travels have taught him about life in the USA. I hope you enjoy. Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page. Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5. Intro: “Why Be Friends” Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

  3. Oct 7

    Order and Safety Matter More for Cities

    For most of my career, people in the urban planning, architecture and development world have almost completely avoided the discussion on crime and order in cities. We seem to like to pretend it’s either not important, or we have nothing to say about it beyond CPTED (Crime Prevention through Environmental Design) techniques. In many cases, I just have people hand-wave the issue away, as if it doesn’t really matter - “crime will happen no matter what, I’m not an expert,” blah blah blah. Let’s talk about zoning standards and street design instead. Today I discuss why this issue needs to be front and center, especially now as most suburbs build out their own downtowns and walkable neighborhoods. I discuss the importance of seeing your own city as others see it, and what the actual marketing proposition is for living in a city. I admit for most of my life, I have not cared enough nor focused enough on this issue. I’ve probably had the same, very typical attitudes you see in the professional, urban world. That’s simply no longer the case, as I’ve gotten much more of an insider’s view, and as my own city has suffered through demand destruction due almost primarily to this problem. And, it’s not unsolvable, either. Many of the solutions just involve making this a clear priority, and getting everyone focused on it as a team. Perhaps I’ll dive more into that in the future. For now, I rant. Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page. Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5. Intro: “Why Be Friends” Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

  4. Sep 15

    Property Taxes - How We Got Here

    You might wonder how a podcast on urban planning, design and development could get interested in the arcane subject of property taxes. Except that, it’s all over the news lately, and its another fundamental issue than actual normies care about. People in my city have left it because of outrageous tax re-assessments. Developers and investors won’t invest in my County because of the same. And, frankly, we are a fairly no-drama, modest cost part of the world compared to many places. So I turned to Jaime Izurieta to start this conversation. Over at his Substack, The Vertical Sidewalk, Jaime recently authored a piece called “When the Levy Breaks,” which is a thorough introduction to how we got here with property taxation. I found the history incredibly interesting, and as a good a starting point as any for diving deep into this topic. As Jaime likes to say, “We don’t know that our way of doing this is the best. And we don’t know it isn’t.” But if we don’t start by understanding how we got here, we’ll never understand how to move forward. Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page. Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5. Intro: “Why Be Friends” Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

  5. Sep 1

    Dissecting Euclid

    Returning champion Aaron Lubeck joins me to discuss his exceptional piece called, “Revisiting Euclid v. Ambler at 100,” which he posted on his Substack “On Housing.” Aaron also posts and helps curate “Southern Urbanism” - an excellent publication I highly recommend. While a lot of ink has been spilled and words shared about the impact of the Euclid v Ambler case, Aaron’s column adds some new wrinkles and information to it that even surprised me. We talk in some detail about the case itself, the arguments made, and the people you might be surprised that were considered the “out” groups in that era. We also talk some about what a post-Euclid world could look like, and the implications for the planning profession. Because Aaron and I can’t stop at just one topic, we also hit on some of the perverse consequences of building and energy codes, and how “The modern world destroys all that cannot be quantified” as he states. Oh also, Mel Brooks at 100, and the need for more satire in our lives. Enjoy. Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page. Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5. Intro: “Why Be Friends” Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

  6. Aug 25

    Learning from Rocket City, USA

    Architect, Author, Photographer and New Urbanist Steve Mouzon joins me to tell his story about the emergence of New Urbanism in a location that many would consider unlikely. Huntsville, Alabama might be known for Space Camp, but it’s not widely known as a place to find great urban design and architecture. And that’s a shame, because there’s more lessons to learn here for most cities than by flying to a big, coastal market. Steve talks about the emergence of the Village of Providence in the early 2000s, its unique characteristics, and how that project also influenced the rebirth of downtown Huntsville. He also shares some of his own travails and triumphs, asking “why not us?” For more on Steve’s work, please do check out his incredible resource at The Original Green. Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page. Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5. Intro: “Why Be Friends” Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

  7. Aug 12

    Overcoming the Fear-Industrial Complex

    We bring back my brother Dean on this episode, to talk about how we often let our fears overrun our lives, and how to get beyond them. Dean is not just one of my favorite humans on the planet, he’s also a clinical psychologist, author of a number of books on the Mississippi River, and a world traveler. His newest book, “Better Safe than Sorry: Slow Boats, Chicken Buses, and the Radical Choice to Trust the World” is coming out in late August. For people who care about their communities and often wrestle with the fear of change, understanding what drives us and the psychology behind fear is essential. But even more so, we must understand how we can take steps to help people overcome those fears. Dean’s latest book is a study in how someone can gradually, incrementally overcome deep-seated worries or fears. He writes about how difficult it was for him to take risks as a young adult, and how over time that gave way. More importantly, he shares examples of how leaning into discomfort can frequently result in some of the greatest joys of life. I often ask when it comes to change in cities, “what are we really afraid of?” And I’m not trying to be dismissive - some change really can be for the worse. American cities have seen a lot of that in the 20th century, especially with massive urban renewal efforts. But it’s also true that most of our fears are unfounded, or rooted in something deeper. We like change, but we don’t like change. Or, we want a certain kind of change. And yet, our messy lives change whether we want them to or not. Dean’s book and our conversation tries to help people to not let fear rule your life, so that you might truly enjoy it. Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page. Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5. Intro: “Why Be Friends” Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

  8. Aug 5

    Rethinking Infrastructure Finance

    It’s very easy for all of us to get caught up in status quo bias. We live the way we do, it must be fine, right? The way things are surely is the way they’ve been for a very long time, and probably got this way for good reasons. Or so we think, if we think about it at all. I think about this a lot when I think about how we finance, design and build infrastructure. Sitting here in 2026, we have so many assumptions about the way things have always been, and that what we’ve landed on is the best way. But is it, really? For these, questions, I turned to brothers Vince and Geoff Graham. Vince and Geoff are true Renaissance men. They’re developers who have developed some of the most beautiful and inspirational communities of the last few decades. Those include Newpoint, in Beaufort, South Carolina and I’On in Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina. Both were wildly successful examples of New Urbanism, and showcased that we are still capable of building timeless, traditional places. But beyond their development endeavors (which continue, in less talked-about projects), they are both deeply curious and knowledgable about a wide range of topics. They’ve got a depth of understanding of history that is unique, and ask all the right, and hard, questions about the way we do things. We dive into a fair amount of American history in this episode, but I hope you’ll see how it all ties together with our difficult conversations today about infrastructure, community, and much more. Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page. Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5. Intro: “Why Be Friends” Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

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4.9
out of 5
28 Ratings

About

Embracing change, uncertainty and local initiative for our cities and towns kevinklinkenberg.substack.com

Information

  • Creator
    Kevin Klinkenberg
  • Years Active
    2023 - 2026
  • Episodes
    134
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Kevin Klinkenberg
  • Show Website
    The Messy City Podcast

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