The International Expansion Podcast with Ramsey Pryor Ramsey Pryor

When companies expand into Europe, many start in the UK or Ireland, and as they gain experience they move into big GDP countries like France and Germany that are more challenging in terms of language, localization, etc. While this approach is understandable, there are many important markets that are left until later or treated as afterthoughts. When taken together, the Nordics plus Benelux make 16% of Europe’s GDP - which is larger than France, and larger than the UK in terms of contribution. At the same time, most of these nations are extremely English-savvy, and require less localization than Germany or France. That doesn’t mean you can take a generic approach, there is a learning curve and some important differences to be aware of, and in this episode I’m really excited to have Paulo Rodriguez as my guest to talk through his experience taking Software into Benelux and the Nordics. Paulo has done this at 3 very well known companies, starting at Google, then Dropbox, and now for Vanta. Please enjoy and share!



Links:

www.portofentrypartners.com

Paulo's LinkedIn



Here's what we cover:


Diversity within Europe and the education needed before starting the expansion process.
The expansion approaches most foreign tech companies taking when they enter Europe, and the most common mistakes
Observations and learnings Paul has made during his experiences taking new technology across Europe. Mistakes and corrections Paulo has made.
Internationalization vs localization and how much of each is needed to tackle the Nordics and Benelux
Some of the most important differences between selling Software in the Nordics/Benelux versus other parts of Europe
Cultural differences that impact buying and selling behavior
The best locations in Europe for getting candid feedback on your product
Striking the right balance between being data-driven and using your own observations about market behavior
Where the Nordics/Benelux should rank in terms of a continental strategy for Europe, assuming the technology applies everywhere
Operationally how to go in - where to put the first employees, where to expand later on.
Anecdotes on selling in the Nordics and differences in body language from buyers.

If you asked 100 companies to rank the most challenging countries to enter, Japan would rank at or near the top on most every list. Not only does Japan have very high bar and specific set of localization requirements, nearly every aspect of doing business is different than in the US and most western markets. That said, Japan is the 3rd largest economy in the world, so it cannot be ignored by any company with global ambitions, and there are many success stories to learn from. In this episode, I’m honored to have Daiki Nakajima as my guest. Daiki is the Director of Business Development at the Japan External Trade organization, shortened to JETRO, whose main objective is to provide support for bilateral investment between the USA and Japan. Daiki oversees all activities of Invest Japan, Japan-US Bilateral Economic Relationships, Startup Initiative, and Global Acceleration Hub at JETRO in New York. When it comes to foreign tech companies entering Japan and vice versa, in the words of a mutual colleague at Hubspot, Daiki “has seen it all” over the past 12 years. Please enjoy and share. Here's what we cover:


4:00 Daiki's bi-cultural background, what led him to focus on Japan-US trade
6:00 Japan External Trade Organization - overview of how JETRO and how they help foreign companies enter Japan
11:00 Things you need to know and consider before you begin working on Japan market entry, pre-reqs for entry
18:00 Differences in marketing style and the research needed to adapt your marketing strategy
22:00 Beyond website and UX, the things that require localization
23:45 Differences in presentation styles, pitching properly in Japan
27:00 How meetings work in Japan - matching seniority levels, formality at mid-size companies, knowing how to interpret signals, expectations around timing and follow ups
33:30 Aligning with fiscal cycles and budgeting seasonality
36:00 How to gain trust, early traction, case studies, and retention when you are a newcomer. Value propositions that resonate with Japanese buyers.
45:00 Common traits among companies that have done well in Japan - the importance of persistence, having strong presence on the ground, meeting face to face, and more.
50:00 The hiring process and cycle for new grads, and the only time of year you will find a new hire.
56:30 What Japanese customers expect after the sale. The importance of excellent customer service and making a good first impression in terms of the product, translation, and overall experience.
1:01 What's changed in Japan since COVID. How policy drives rapid change within the business environment.
1:08 The emerging "global generation", how this generation is shifting the way business works, and applying these learnings to your Japan entry strategy.

China is one of the most complex and challenging markets for foreign tech companies to succeed in. It has so many hurdles to clear, including strict regulations, thorny geo-politics, and significant language and cultural learning barriers. But for those who succeed, the rewards and market potential are massive. With a GDP of over $18 Trillion it’s the second largest economy in the world, and in terms of population and potential end users, it’s the world's largest. One of the first things you have to do extremely well is to find an excellent leader for your team there, and I’m really happy to have Jason Li as my guest for this episode. Jason has been on the early teams at not 1, not 2 but 3 well-known foreign companies including Gartner, LinkedIn, and most recently at Branch where Jason and I got to team up. Jason scaled up our business from zero to becoming the highest performing regions and teams in the company, eventually opening 3 China offices and landing many of the largest logos in China in just 3 short years. He is also a multi-time startup founder and is currently CEO and building a new SaaS startup backed by Branch. Please enjoy and share!

Here are the topics we discuss with timestamps:

4:00 Maturity differences between Chinese and US SaaS companies

6:15 Similarities and Differences between China playbooks at LinkedIn, Gartner, and Branch, Gitlab, Canva and more. Expansion phases, partnerships, and entity structures

11:30 For companies that do not have experience in China - what you need to know about the tech ecosystem, user preferences, competitive dynamics

16:00 How to test and validate product market fit in China before making a bigger investment

18:30 ICP Licensing and the requirements for operating a business over the internet in China

21:00 The state of B2B SaaS in China - domestic supply and demand for cloud vs. on-prem services, willingness to build vs. buy, and the opportunity for foreign SaaS companies to sell to Chinese businesses.

26:00 What works when selling SaaS to Chinese companies. Jason's framework for value selling.

29:00 The importance of relationships and guanxi when selling, customer expectations, proof of concept and ROI, and cultural difference when selling in China versus elsewhere.

34:00 Tactics for building brand awareness in China

36:00 How to build a world class team in China - where to find candidates, local job boards, the role of headhunters, and how to classify and filter applicants to build your early team.

42:00 Beyond selling directly to customers - the role of agencies, partnerships, and government when entering China.

46:30 Preventable mistakes - hard lessons to learn from companies that have failed in China. Product Market Fit vs Solution Market Fit. Local vs remote decision making, respecting local business practices and norms.

50:00 Best practices and recommendations based on Jason's experience leading the China initiative multiple times

55:00 Post pandemic re-opening - perspective on timing and market readiness for foreign companies entering China as early 2023

This episode is focused specifically on best practices when entering France, and I’m really happy to have Natascha Chamuleau as my guest. Natascha is currently the Chief Advertising Officer of WeTransfer, a position she has held since July 2020, having joined as Vice President of Sales in 2017. Before WeTransfer, Natascha spent three years at Facebook as Head of Sales and Client Solutions for Benelux and Central Europe. Prior to this, she worked in a variety of leadership roles including eBay Classified and Marktplaats, ranging from Sales to Growth and Product Innovation.

Natascha and I were introduced when I began asking around about companies that had done a world class job of entering the French market, which as many know is one of the most challenging in Europe and in the world for foreign companies in terms of localization, building the right strategy, and winning the hearts and minds of customers and partners in the country.

We’re here today to dive into WeTransfer’s story and the approach that they followed to thrive as a foreign company in the French Market.

Links:

Port of Entry Partners - www.portofentrypartners.com Helping companies thrive and scale in international markets

WeTransfer

Natascha’s LinkedIn profile



Topics Discussed:

3:00 - Natascha’s background and early influences that led to an international career

8:15 - How France is different from other markets in Europe - things to know before you start

11:15 - How to build relationships in France - what to do, and what NOT to do

13:00 - The Eiffel Tower strategy - landing a well known local client to start the snowball rolling

16:00 - Navigating B2B relationships - corporate hierarchies and the importance of roles and rank in France

18:00 - Striking the right chord with French end users with B2C businesses and the importance of trust

20:30 - The importance of language, cultural nuances and a funny example of getting the French wording WRONG.

23:00 - Setting yourself up to succeed in France culturally and when communicating. Small changes that make a big difference.

25:30 - Entry pre-reqs, the work you need to do BEFORE you begin hiring, and the challenges for employers in France

30:00 - Spoken and written language - when and where using the French language is essential when doing business in France - in meetings, with clients, events, and in contracts.

38:45 - Where does France rank in terms of priority for companies entering Europe? When should you start working on entering France?

44:00 - Where to find top talent in France, how to write local job descriptions, and how to set employee expectations properly

49:00 - Getting started entering France. Some practical first steps, timing expectations, and the importance of on the ground research.

51:00 - Resources to help you get started in France - WeGrow, The Culture Map

www.portofentrypartners.com

This episode is focused specifically on entering Korea, and I’m honored to have Troy Malone as my guest. Troy has had one of the most exciting international tech careers of anyone I’ve met. He’s been a venture capitalist and a multi-time entrepreneur, and has been helping companies including Evernote, Drata, Weebly, and All Turtles (the startup studio founded by Phil Libin) take some of the most loved tech products into new markets all around the world.

I highly encourage folks to check out Troy's new company called Relevant that helps startups and scaleups build their lead funnel in new markets.

In this interview, Troy shares his experiences building up Evernote and Drata in Korea. Notes below. Please enjoy and share!

Show Notes:

3:45 - Troy's experience Immersing in Korea as a foreigner for 2 years

6:45 - Landing the opportunity to help Phil Libin take Evernote into Asia

9:00 - Things companies needs to know up front about Korea, and the 3 pillars of Evernote's Korean Expansion Strategy

14:00 - How to find local influencers and a solid PR agency

20:10 - Building and cultivating a strong local community in Korea for Evernote

21:20 - Finding resonance within Korea's culture of record keeping

24:15 - Deviating from the usual playbook, and outperforming Google, Facebook and Uber on a small budget

27:45 - The role of partnerships, agencies, and operating alongside Korea's massive chaebols/conglomerate companies (Samsung, Korea Telecom, Hyundai, etc.)

33:22 - B2B vs. B2C entry approaches

38:40 - When to hire, where to find talent, and what to look for when building your team in Korea

41:20 - Managing a team in Korea - cultural differences to be aware of

45:35 - Common mistakes foreign companies make in Korea

Rachel is Head of Internationalisation & Localisation at Canva. Canva is an online design and publishing tool with a mission to empower everyone in the world to design anything and publish anywhere. Since it was founded in 2013, Canva has grown into a unicorn and one of Australia’s most famous tech companies. Rachel has been at Canva for over 4 and a half years, so she’s overseen an incredible period of international growth as Canva now reaches over 60M MAU in 190 countries and over 100 languages. Rachel is a member of the international mastermind network and a Bay Area native that is now living and working in Australia, so we share a lot of common interests and connections, and I’ve been looking forward to having her as a guest for a long time. Here's what we covered:


Rachel's background and decision to leave the Bay Area and live and work abroad.
Planning international expansion starting from Australia
Localization and Internationalization - what these terms mean to Rachel
Rachel's day-to-day role at Canva
Going live in 100 countries - what goes into it, and the motivation behind such a big push