After the Bar - Stories from the Legal Industry Shulin Lee

Would you leave a well-paying legal career to be a pastor? That's what Raymond Fong did.

An ex-Deputy Public Prosecutor with a career in the Legal Service, he took a different path to be a pastor. He is now a Pastor-in-Charge at Wesley Methodist Church, a role that he holds with a deep sense of purpose.

In this episode, you will hear about his story: a prosecutor turned pastor. We'll explore the challenges he faced during this career shift, the lessons he learned, and the journey that led him to become a pastor.

We also discuss:


Implications of his transition: significant income loss, working 24/7
His leadership and life lessons
His experience as a prosecutor

Join us, whether you are considering shifting careers, embarking on your professional journey, or already experienced in your field, as we uncover the unique story of Pastor Raymond's dual careers and the lessons he has to offer.

For more about Pastor Ray and his work, check out his newly launched podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/0wTfH91dRk5bT6VPJ0GuS9?si=c7d7374f8c4e45ae

Connect with me on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/shulinlee/

More on the podcast - https://www.AfterTheBar.com.sg

What to listen for:

00:00 Start of Episode00:39 Introduction 01:29 Pastor Raymond’s 2024 So Far 02:45 Transitioning From Law to Ministry03:48 Considerations Through the Different Seasons of Life 05:26 Shifting Priorities with a Lower Salary 07:52 Working 24/7 as a Pastor09:01 Wrestling with Self-Doubt10:20 Advice for Younger Self11:20 Setbacks Which Set You Up for Success14:47 Moving from a Smaller Church to a Bigger Church19:06 Tips on Being a Good Listener21:05 Is Leadership an Inborn or Cultivated Skill?23:50 The Pressure of Having People Look Up to You25:06 How to Comprehend Pain and Struggling on Earth27:42 Pastor Raymond’s Experience as a Deputy Public Prosecutor (DPP)38:56 What Would Pastor Raymond Be If Not a Lawyer or a Pastor?39:33 What Are You Most Proud Of?41:30 Advice To Those Thinking of Making a Major Career Pivot43:10 Rapid Fire Round45:29 Outro

What if you get retrenched? What if you need to terminate someone? Do you know what your rights are? Or what to do?

In this episode, you’re going to learn what your rights are if you get retrenched in Singapore.

We talk about retrenchment, termination and employment law with two senior lawyers - Amarjit Kaur, Head of Singapore Employment Practice at Withers KhattarWong and Seow Hui Goh, Head of Singapore Employment Practice at Bird & Bird.

Hear their views on the recent Lazada layoffs. And how retrenchment can go terribly wrong and also surprisingly well, when handled properly.

We also talk about:


Repercussions of Remote Work
How to Terminate Employees, and Still Preserve Goodwill.
Effectiveness of Performance Indicator Plans (PIPs) in the Workplace.

Join us, whether you're a leader, experienced professional or just starting out in the workforce, as this episode offers invaluable insights beneficial for both employers and employees.

If you know someone who’s dealing with employment uncertainty, send them this episode and provide them with the information they will need.

Seow Hui Goh
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/seow-hui-%E6%99%93%E6%85%A7-goh-%E5%90%B4-a997b66a

Videos with Seow Hui Goh:
https://youtu.be/HirBFsXP9oo?si=fQR0vcfp_NMLNuaZ

Amarjit Kaur
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/amarjit-kaur-4b1ba620/

Videos with Amarjit Kaur:
https://youtu.be/bdQ3WNBuloM?si=QbzEjtAeq_PN2vg-

Connect with me on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/shulinlee/

More on the podcast - https://www.AfterTheBar.com.sg

What to listen for:
00:00 Start of Episode
00:45 Introduction
01:47 Dealing with Rumours of Retrenchment
04:01 What to do When Colleagues are Offered a Better Retrenchment Package
06:13 Taking a Pay-cut to Stay in the Organisation
07:29 Lazada Retrenchment Exercise
10:32 How can Employers Cushion the Blow of Retrenchment?
14:04 Can Retrenchments Go Well?
15:59 Retrenchment as a Disguise to Let Go of Poor Performers
19:41 Do PIPs Actually Work?
24:36 When to Let Go of a Poor Performer
28:45 Preserving the Relationship When Employees Leave the Organisation
31:10 Should You Reveal at Your Next Interview if You Were Made Redundant?
34:30 Can Organisations Do Anything When an Employee Posts a Bad Review on Glassdoor?
37:01 Disgruntled Employees Sharing Their Opinions Online
39:52 Remote Working in a Public Place
44:23 What’s the Best Ratio of Working In Office To Working From Home
47:56 Upcoming Workplace Fairness Legislation
54:06 Rapid Fire Round
57:08 Outro

After the Bar is back with Season 3! And this time, we're delving into the theme of navigating transitions. Join Shulin as she speaks with lawyers from various walks of life – past, present, and future – to explore their journeys in law, with a special focus on the pivotal moments in their careers and personal lives.

In our season opener, Shulin is joined by Sophie Mathur, a Mergers and Acquisitions lawyer and the Asia Head of Corporate with Linklaters.

Sophie takes us on a journey through her evolution in the legal industry – from starting her legal career in London, to achieving partnership, leadership, and motherhood.  Along the way, she’s shattered conventions and forged her own path.

You will hear her share invaluable insights into personal branding, business development (without wining and dining!), and she even gives a masterclass on how to give feedback.

Sophie opens up about the unique challenges she faced as an Asian woman of colour in the corporate realm. Through her candid reflections, she sheds light on the psychological barriers that often hinder us from realizing our full potential.

Join us for the kickoff of Season 3, as Sophie shares her remarkable insights, lessons learnt, and the incredible journey she's charted.

Follow Sophie Mathur:

LinkedIn - https://sg.linkedin.com/in/sophie-mathur-090356

Watch the episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/c4B56soGrno

Videos with Sophie Mathur:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0fbaxYFuu4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfAwRhiYgCE

Connect with me on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/shulinlee/

More on the podcast - https://www.AfterTheBar.com.sg

What to listen for:


00:00 Start of Episode
00:58 Introduction
02:10 What is a Merger and Acquisition (M&A) Lawyer?
02:42 Being an Asian Woman of Colour in the Legal Industry
07:19 Having Self-Confidence
11:19 Being Smiley but Firm
14:23 Being Afraid to Ask for a Favour
19:55 The Problem with Chasing Perfection
21:33 Overcoming Imposter Syndrome
24:26 The Feeling of Not Being Good Enough
25:56 Dealing with Negativity
31:24 Good Intentions but Bad Results
35:13 The Feeling of Winning Over the Support of the Team
38:24 Getting Feedback from Your Kids
40:51 Ingraining Giving Feedback in a Team’s Culture
44:54 Sophie’s Drivers for Career Pivots
48:40 Matching the Right Job to the Right Person
50:40 Knowing When to Pivot
51:44 How Becoming a Mom Affects Your Career Perspective
55:45 Sophie’s Surprise Baby
57:26 Networking Without Wining and Dining
1:00:20 Alternative Methods of Business Development
1:01:41 Advice for your Younger Self
1:02:34 Rapid Fire Round
1:04:39 Outro

Roles are reversed, for this bonus episode!
For once, I’m in the hot seat, answering your questions on After the Bar.

Joined by my coach and mentor, Georgina Chang, I opened up about my journey, after quitting law.   

In this episode, you will hear about:



Why I started After the Bar



How I overcame my Fears



How I pivoted from Lawyer to Recruiter



Memorable moments on this podcasting adventure



And the many Lessons I learnt along the way…

You will see a different side to me.

One that I’ve hesitated to show for the longest time.

In sharing a piece of my personal story, I hope it inspires you in some small way.  

Comment below and let me know!

What to listen for:
00:00 Start of Episode
00:39 Introduction 
01:21 Why did Shulin Start ‘After The Bar’ Podcast
05:55 Transitioning From a Lawyer to a Legal Recruiter
08:43 On Realising That Being a Lawyer Was Not for Her
11:04 Finding Purpose in Being a Legal Recruiter
14:00 Launching ‘After The Bar’
15:07 Overcoming The Fear of Starting The Podcast
16:28 Were There Moments Shulin Felt Unqualified?
18:46 On Owning Your Space
20:50 On The Late Adrian Tan
23:21 Memorable Moments - SC Lok Vi Ming’s Episode
27:07 Memorable Moments - MP SPS Rahayu Mahzam’s Episode
28:19 Is Asking Questions as a Legal Recruiter Different Than as a Podcast Host?
29:50 Shulin’s Guest Wishlist
30:45 Vision For Season 3 of ‘After The Bar’
34:47 Biggest Lesson Learnt From the Podcast
36:13 Rapid Fire Questions

Subscribe to our channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@AfterTheBarPod 

Listen to After the Bar, when you’re on-the-go! https://open.spotify.com/show/1WeYGLPfM6n2tnZEodR6aq

Follow me here:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shulinlee/

Website: https://www.AfterTheBar.com.sg

My work: https://aslantlegal.com/

Follow my amazing coach! https://sg.linkedin.com/in/georginachang/ 

My heartfelt thanks to you for your support for After the Bar!

As Season 2 comes to a close, we look forward to what the new season will bring.

Wishing you an amazing end to 2023, and may we collectively Raise the Bar to new heights in the coming year! 🎉

A first in After the Bar history, we speak to Rahayu Mahzam, Senior Parliamentary Secretary at the Ministry of Law and Ministry of Health, and Member of Parliament for Jurong GRC. Rahayu, a former lawyer and passionate advocate for inclusivity, shares her personal career journey from law to politics, discussing the immediate changes after winning the election and the mindset shift she experienced.

She also reflects on her legal career, highlighting the insights gained from practicing civil litigation and family law, as well as her unique experience as Deputy Registrar at the Syariah Court. Rahayu opens up about raising a child with special needs, offering valuable insights into balancing the demands of her high-pressure job and caregiving responsibilities. Throughout the conversation, she emphasises the importance of support networks and shares her ongoing efforts to promote inclusivity for marginalised groups, including persons with disabilities.

Don't miss this inspiring conversation with Rahayu Mahzam as she discusses her personal missions for Singapore and the legal community while sharing her vision for a more inclusive society.

Rahayu Mahzam
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rahayumahzam/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/rahayumahzam/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/RahayuMahzamSG/

Rahayu Mahzam's Speeches:
https://youtu.be/8c18fsbaDh8
https://youtu.be/l6Jhg5r2h3w

Connect with me on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/shulinlee/

More on the podcast - https://www.AfterTheBar.com.sg

What to listen for:
00:00 Start of Episode
00:31 Introduction
01:21 Dealing with Being a Public Figure & Public Scrutiny
04:19 Self-consciousness as a Politician
08:31 Journey from a Lawyer to a Politician
13:47 Rahayu's Humble Beginnings & Ability to Empathise with the Regular Citizens
17:54 Caring for a Child with Special Needs
26:17 Creating an Ecosystem of Support for the Special Needs Community
31:46 What Can Be Done to Foster Inclusion in Workplaces
36:16 Compatibility of Legal Careers and Family Life for Women
43:41 Issues in the Legal Sector for Women
46:04 What Would Rahayu Want to Change in the Legal Industry
50:37 Law in AI & Opportunities for Younger Lawyers to Gain New Skills
52:20 Advice for Young & Aspiring Lawyers
55:55 Rapid Fire Questions

In this episode of After The Bar, join us as we delve deep into the world of law with the esteemed guest, Jean Woo, a banking specialist lawyer heading local law firm Ashurst. Jean shares invaluable insights on various aspects of the legal profession from hiring processes and managing the different dynamics of lawyers.

Jean begins by discussing the qualities she looks for in a lawyer and how the self-selecting process plays a crucial role in shaping a successful legal career. She sheds light on the importance of ensuring motivation and engagement among younger lawyers, while also addressing the pressing issue of mental health within the legal industry.

Work-life balance is a topic close to Jean's heart, and she shares her strategies for managing competing demands and finding harmony between professional and personal life. As a Managing Partner, Jean provides valuable perspective shifts that occur when taking on a higher role and how she navigates the challenges of managing the firm while maintaining a successful legal practice.

Exploring the dynamics of different categories of lawyers, Jean offers tips on how homegrown lawyers can secure positions in international law firms. She also delves into the implications of local law firms merging with international companies and the potential loss of legal talent.

Throughout the episode, Jean emphasises the importance of transparency in international firms and communicates the significance of setting boundaries and maintaining open communication with family as she shares how she manages the different priorities in her list and life.

Don't miss this insightful conversation with Jean Woo, where she shares her experiences, advice, and reflections on the legal profession, providing listeners with a wealth of knowledge to navigate their own legal careers successfully.

Jean Woo - http://linkedin.com/in/jean-woo-1b904452

Connect with me on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/shulinlee/

More on the podcast - https://www.AfterTheBar.com.sg

What to listen for:
00:00 Start of Episode
00:50 Introduction Starts
01:29 New Generation of Lawyers
03:20 Self-Selecting Process
04:36 Qualities to Look for In a Lawyer
05:19 Ensuring Motivation and Engagement for Younger Lawyer
07:52 Tackling Mental Health Issues in a Firm
10:21 Managing a Work-Life Balance
11:29 Learning to Trust your Organisation
12:28 Why Jean Volunteered to be a Managing Partner
13:12 Stepping Up Further into Your Career
15:12 Perspective Shifts after Taking on a Higher Role
17:13 Managing Competing Demands of Managing the Firm and Maintaining a Successful Legal Practice
19:19 What Jean Would Have Done Differently
20:38 Advice to Others in a Similar Position
24:10 Singaporean Lawyers vs Expat Lawyers
24:37 Jean's Experiences as a Lawyer in the UK
26:12 Advantages of Being a Lawyer Who Has Worked Overseas
28:52 Tips on How to Get Hired in an International Law Firm as a Homegrown Lawyer
30:55 Peer Mentoring and Cultural Exchange
33:53 Is the Legal Scene being Dominated by Big International Firms?
35:48 Local Law Firms Merging with International Companies Leading to A Potential Loss of Legal Talent
37:23 What Attracts Local Firm Partners to Global Firms
38:01 Transparency in International Firms
41:22 How to Juggle Work Stress
42:51 Jean's Philosophy on Family
43:50 How to Keep Priorities in Check
46:36 Rapid Fire Questions