The VBAC Link Meagan Heaton

Every pregnancy and birth experience is different. That is true for everyone, but especially for Kristen. Kristen joins us from Provo, Utah, and shares her experiences with an initial vaginal birth, a diagnosis of omphacele with a Cesarean and infant loss with her second that left her with a special scar, an induced, medicated hospital VBAC with her third, and she is currently expecting twins!

Kristen’s journey has not been easy, but she has learned and grown so much. She talks about how a safe and supportive birth team truly makes all the difference. Your intuition will help guide you to the best provider for you. When you know, you know!

Meagan concludes the episode by touching on some myths and facts about doulas. 

The VBAC Link Blog: Myths and Facts About Doulas
The VBAC Link Blog: Special Scars
Special Scars, Special Hope
Needed Website
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

01:50 Review of the Week
04:02 Kristen’s first vaginal birth
09:41 Coping with grief and hospital communication issues
15:17 A low transverse incision with a J extension
19:59 Finding VBAC support in Salt Lake
23:10 Foley induction at 41.5 weeks
29:29 Changing plans
30:37 Myths about doulas
38:55 Facts about doulas
41:05 Kristen’s advice to other women with special scars
43:26 Listening to your intuition when choosing a provider

Meagan: Hello, Women of Strength. Thank you for joining us for another amazing episode here at The VBAC Link. Today’s story is from someone who is local to me which I think is always kind of fun to have someone who when they are telling the story, I know the birthing place, I know the provider, and here I even know the doula so that is super exciting. 

Welcome, Kristen to the show. 

Kristen: Thank you, Meagan. 

Meagan: Thank you so much for being here and I’m excited for you to share your stories. I would like to get into a review really quickly so then we can do that. 

Kristen: Sure. 

01:50 Review of the Week
Meagan: Okay, we have a reviewer from Apple Podcasts and it says louuuuuhuuuu. I think that’s how it is and it says, “Very Inspirational.” It says, “I knew I wanted a VBAC with my third pregnancy, but I wasn’t sure if it was possible. However, I knew I didn’t like being flat-out told no at my first appointment. Listening to the podcast was definitely the start of me really researching birth and looking into my options. I ended up with a successful HBAC” which is home birth after two Cesareans, actually HBA2C, “and I definitely don’t think I would have had the courage or believed it was possible without the podcast. Thank you, Meagan, for all of the work that you do to provide this information.” 

And thank you, louuuuuhuuuu. I don’t know how to say it. I’m just butchering your name. If you are still listening, thank you so much for your review, and as always, we love your reviews. They really do help the podcast. They help Women of Strength find these incredible stories and information just like she was able to receive. You can drop that review at Apple Podcasts or Google or wherever you listen to your podcasts. 

04:02 Kristen’s first vaginal birth, Cesarean, and infant loss experience
Meagan: Okay, Kristen. Thank you again so much for joining us. I would love to turn the time over to you to share your stories. 

Kristen: Well, thank you. It’s hard to know where to start. There are a lot of details to mine. 

We had our first little boy in April of 2018. That was its own experience. That was a vaginal birth honestly. That was as hard as it was as a first-time mom and a first-time pregnancy/birth. It had its own set of interesting details to go along with that but we soon found ourselves unexpectedly pregnant with our second one just four months later after he was born. 

Meagan: Really soon. 

Kristen: Yeah, they would have been 11 months apart. I say would have been because my daughter who I had via Cesarea

Julie Francom joins Meagan on the podcast to talk about checking the validity of the information you see surrounding VBAC. There is so much information out there and so much misinformation that we want to help you figure out what is actually evidence-based! 

Julie and Meagan draw on their personal experiences with making corrections to information they understood and have shared. They talk about how the structure, size, and date of a study can influence the statistics. Julie shares why Cochrane reviews are her favorite.

The VBAC Link is committed to helping you have the most evidence-based and truthful information as you make your birthing decisions. We promise to update you with all of the new information as we receive it!

How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

03:30 Checking the validity of social media posts
08:01 Our corrected post about VBA2C
12:56 The production behind a statistic or article
18:37 Cochrane reviews
19:06 Checking the dates of studies and emailing us for verification
23:29 Nuchal cords
25:21 Julie’s sleep training story
29:45 Information at your fingertips

Meagan: Hey, hey everybody. Guess what? We have Julie today on the podcast. 

Julie: Hey. 

Meagan: Hey. We’re going to be doing a short but sweet, maybe also a little sassy because as Julie has said, she likes to get sassy these days. 

We’re going to do a short but sweet episode on how to tell if VBAC or HBAC or really just anything–

Julie: Any. 

Meagan: Yeah, any information you see online is real or fake. Now, if you’re following along on our social media, you likely have seen a lot of our myth and fact posts. I think we share them probably once a week honestly because there really are so many things out there that are myths and things that are facts, but on a whole other side and a whole addition to myth and fact is really what should we be believing? What should we be resharing? Right, Julie? I think that this definitely is something that is close to our hearts at least I’m going to say is close to my heart. I think it’s close to Julie’s heart. 

Julie: Oh, for sure. 

Meagan: We want to protect this community and we want this community to find the real information, and not the false information. We know. You can Google anything. 

Julie: So much false information. 

Meagan: You can Google anything and find the real and false information but when it comes to VBAC, like she said, so much false information. 

We’re not even going to do a Review of the Week. We are going to jump right in in just a second after the intro. 
03:30 Checking the validity of social media posts
Meagan: All right, Julie. Are you ready to get spicy?

Julie: Yeah, I think maybe the biggest reason we decided to do this episode and at least for me anyway why I brought it up is because there is so much information out there that looks good, right? You can be like, Oh my gosh, yes. This is amazing. We’re passionate. We as in me and Meagan, but we as in you too who is listening. Clearly, you’re passionate. 

But we really need to be careful what we’re sharing both from our business accounts and what we’re resharing from other people because sometimes if you share this information and it’s incorrect and wrong and it goes viral which there is a recent post that has and sparked this thing, and we’re not going to call anybody out, but when you share misinformation and it goes big and people start believing this incorrect information, it can really do damage to the efforts that we’re trying to make here which is increasing access to VBAC for everybody. 

If you have this entire group of people who think that their chances of having a VBAC at a hospital let’s say are 30% or something like that when really your chances of having a successful VBAC if you get to try– get to try I’m using very loosely– are really between 60-80%. Those are the numbers. 

But there was a post recen

“I did it. They said I couldn’t, but I did it.”

When planning for her VBA3C, Shannon got just about as much kickback as someone can get. She was ambushed. She was coerced. She was given the scariest information. 

Shannon joins us from England today and talks about how each of her four births brought her to where she is today. By the time she was pregnant with her fourth, she was ready to advocate. She was ready to fight for something she had never gotten to experience. 

Though none of her providers were supportive, Shannon stayed grounded. She made her desires known and stood by them. 

Shannon labored unmedicated for just over 14 hours. Then to everyone’s surprise, she pushed her fourth baby girl out vaginally in 14 minutes!

The VBAC Link Blog: Is VBA3C Right for You?
The VBAC Link Blog: VBAMC
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

04:04 First pregnancy and birth
08:31 Second pregnancy and scheduled repeat Cesarean
10:56 Third pregnancy
14:04 A heartbreaking third Cesarean
17:42 Postpartum during COVID
19:55 Fourth pregnancy
24:37 Getting ambushed
28:40 Shannon’s VBA3C birth
36:32 “We are all so proud.”
38:30 VBAC after three Cesareans

Meagan: Hello, hello. You are listening to The VBAC Link. We have our friend, Shannon. Are you from England? Where are you?

Shannon: England, yeah. New Cambridge. 

Meagan: Okay, see? I’m so glad my mind is remembering. You are in England and you guys, she is recording. It is quite late there. She is such a gem to stay up and record and share her VBAC after three C-sections. 

Shannon: Three. 

Meagan: Yes. Her fourth was a vaginal birth. Uno, dos, tres. I can’t even say. I can’t even pretend that I know Spanish. Let’s be honest. So three, you guys. After three Cesareans and we know in our community that this is definitely something that people want to hear. People want to hear these stories because it is harder to find the support. They want to hear what people are doing, how they are navigating through, where they are finding support, and what they are doing to have their vaginal birth after multiple Cesareans. 

We are excited, Shannon, for you to share your stories today. 

01:07 Review of the Week
Meagan: We do have a Review of the Week so we’re going to get into that and then we’ll dive right in. Okay, so this is from morgane and it says, “I’m Not Alone.” I love that title because Women of Strength, you are not alone. This community is so incredible and we’re all here for you. It says, “This podcast has provided so much comfort for me in coping with my unplanned Cesarean and now planning for VBAC in March. The transition to motherhood has been somewhat lonely for me since most of my friends are not mothers and hello? Pandemic.” So this is a little bit ago, right? 

It says, “I am also an aspiring doula and spurred on by these ladies and their work. So thankful I stumbled across this group.” 

Oh my gosh. It says, “Us women really are strong.” I love that. Us women really are strong. I could not agree more. You guys, you are strong. You are capable and you have options. If that is not anything and everything that we talk about on this podcast, then I’m doing it wrong and you need to let me know on your next review. 

As just a constant reminder, if you wouldn’t mind leaving us a review, that would be so great. You can leave it on Apple Podcasts, Google, or you can even email us. 

04:04 First pregnancy and birth
Meagan: Okay, Shannon. Uno, dos, tres– three. I’m saying it correctly now. After three Cesareans, you have had quite the different journey with each birth. 

Shannon: Yeah. I think each one taught me a little bit more and I probably wasn’t ready for a vaginal birth with my first three. I think that while looking back on my journey it’s difficult, I think it led me to where I am today. 

Meagan: Me too. I’m right there. Amen. Same. I love birth and I

Dr. Christina Pinnock is a Maternal Fetal Medicine Specialist/Perinatologist based in California and creator of the ZerotoFour Podcast. She is here to help us tackle topics like what constitutes a high-risk pregnancy, lupus, preeclampsia, HELLP syndrome, gestational diabetes, fibroids, and bicornuate uteruses and how they relate to VBAC. 

The overarching theme of this episode is that all pregnancies are individual experiences. If you are hoping to achieve a VBAC and you have pregnancy complications, find a provider whose goals align with yours. By ensuring that your comfort levels are a good match, you are on your way to a safe and empowering birth experience!

Dr. Pinnock’s Website and Podcast
Needed Website
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

00:58 Review of the Week
03:13 Dr. Christina Pinnock
03:56 Importance of a VBAC-supportive provider
06:36 High-risk pregnancies
11:02 Lupus and TOLAC
14:31 Preeclampsia 
17:19 Varying ranges of preeclampsia
20:46 HELLP Syndrome 
26:36 Other High-risk situations 
27:54 Gestational Diabetes
35:00 Inductions with gestational diabetes
42:25 Fibroids 
46:33 Do fibroids tend to grow during pregnancy? 
51:20 Bicornuate Uterus

Meagan: Have you ever been told that you were high risk, so you’ll be unable to TOLAC? Or maybe you can totally TOLAC assuming nothing high-risk comes into play? What does high risk mean? We often get questions in our inbox asking if having your previous cesarean makes them high risk. Or questions about topics like preeclampsiaclampsia, gestational diabetes, bicornuate uterus, fibroids, and more. 

I am so excited to have board-certified OB/GYN Dr. Christina Pinnock on the show today. She is a high-risk pregnancy doctor passionate about educating women along their pregnancy journeys so they can be more informed and comfortable during their pregnancy. She is located in California and has a podcast of her own called “ZerotoFour” where she talks about topics that will help first-time moms prepare for, thrive, and recover from pregnancy as well as shares evidence-based information and answers everyday questions like we are going to discuss today. 

00:58 Review of the Week
Meagan: We do have a Review of the Week, so I'm going to jump into that and then we can dive in to get into these fantastic questions from Dr. Christina Pinnock. 

Today’s reviewer's name is Obsessed!!!! It says, “The best VBAC and birth podcast. I am grateful to have discovered Meagan and this podcast. I definitely believe listening to stories of these amazing women and their parent’s course helped me achieve my two VBACs. Thank you for all you do The VBAC Link.”

Oh, thank you so much Obsessed!!!!!  And as always if you wouldn’t mind, drop us a review leave us a comment and you never know, it may be read on the next podcast. 

03:13 Dr. Christina Pinnock
Meagan: Okay, Women of Strength. I am seriously so, so excited to have our guest here with us today! Dr. Christina, is it Pinnock? How do you say it?

 Dr. Pinnock: Yes that’s perfect.

Meagan: Ok, just wanted to make sure I was saying it correctly. Welcome to the show! You guys, she is amazing and has been so gracious to accept our invitation here to today to talk about high-risk pregnancy and what it means. Hopefully, we’ll talk a little bit about gestational diabetes because that's a big one when it comes to VBAC. And if we have time, so much more. So welcome to the show and thank you again for being here.

Dr. Pinnock: Thank you so much for having me, I'm excited to be here and chat with you and your audience about these great topics, so thank you.

03:56 Importance of a VBAC-supportive provider
Meagan: Yes! Okay well, this isn’t a question we had talked about, but I’m curious. Being in California, do you find it hard to find support for VBAC or do you find it easy? I mean, California is so big and you’re in Mountain View. So I don’t know exactly wher

Our friend, Kelsey, shares with us today what giving birth is like in Canada. From moving and traveling between provinces, Kelsey had experienced different models of care and when it came time to prepare for her VBAC, she was very proactive about choosing a birth environment where she felt safest. 

From a scary Cesarean under general anesthesia to an empowering unmedicated VBAC in a birth center, Kelsey’s journey is entertaining, beautiful, and powerful. We love hearing the unique details of her story including giving birth at the same time as her doula just in the next room over! 

The personalized care she was given during her VBAC is so endearing and heartwarming. As her husband mentioned, it should be the gold standard of care and we agree! 

The VBAC Link Blog: Assisted Delivery
Fetal Tachycardia in the Delivery Room
Is There Still a Place for Forceps in Modern Obstetrics?
Forceps Delivery Complications
Needed Website
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

07:36 Review of the Week
09:27 Kelsey’s stories
11:47 Logistics of giving birth in Canada
14:38 A normal pregnancy
17:50 Arriving at the hospital
21:37 Stalling at 7 centimeters
26:22 Asynclitic and OP positioning
29:31 Kelsey’s Cesarean under general anesthesia
34:50 Second pregnancy and VBAC prep
41:07 Switching to midwives
46:14 Beginning of labor
51:07 Driving to the birth center
54:49 Pushing baby out in two pushes
1:00:24 Differences in care
1:02:11 Enterovirus
1:08:02 Risk factors for forceps and vacuum deliveries


Meagan: Hello, Women of Strength. We have our friend, Kelsey, from Canada. Is that correct? 

Kelsey: Yes. Yeah. 

Meagan: She’s sharing her story with you guys today. Something about her first story of her C-section that stood out to me was that she had a forceps attempt that didn’t work out. Sometimes that happens. I want to talk a little bit about forceps here in just a minute before we get into her story. Kelsey, I wanted to ask you that this is something that in our doula practice we will ask our clients. If it comes down to an assisted birth with forceps or a vacuum, what would you prefer? It’s a weird thing because you’re like, Well, I’m not planning on that, but a lot of people actually answer, “I would rather not do those and go straight to a C-section.” Some people are like, “I would rather do every last-ditch effort before I go to a C-section.” 

Did you ever think about that before? Had it ever been discussed before as their style? That’s another thing. Some providers are really vacuum-happy. Some are really forceps-happy. I know it’s a random question, but I was just wondering, had you ever thought of that before going into birth? 

Kelsey: So no. I didn’t think about whether I wanted a C-section or a forceps delivery. However, I was really staunchly against having a C-section. That was primarily nothing against it, it was just that I have a really huge fear of awake surgery so with my forceps attempt, the OB who was there because it wasn’t my provider. That’s not the way Canada works. The OB who was there who was called in said, “Are you sure you want to do forceps? You could tear.” 

I told her, “I would rather tear than have a C-section.” That was just a personal preference for me because I was so terrified of having a C-section. 

Meagan: Yeah. I think that is very common and very valid to be like, “No, I would rather try this.” 

Kelsey: Yeah. 

Meagan: So I did. I wanted to go over just a little bit. I mean, I have seen a couple of forceps and they are not happening as often these days, but there was an article that said, “Is there still a place for forceps delivery in modern obstetrics?” I’m trying to say obstetricians and obstetrics. We’re just going to stop. 

Kelsey: We know what you mean. 

Meagan: You know what I mean. There was an article and I was like, That’s a really good question, because I think a

The amazing Gina Conley from MamasteFit joins Meagan today to answer your questions all about perinatal fitness! Gina is a birth doula, perinatal fitness trainer, and founder of MamasteFit. ​​In partnership with her sister, Roxanne, who is a labor and delivery nurse and student-midwife, MamasteFit is a place for women to find education courses and fitness programs to be their strongest selves during each stage of motherhood. 

Gina shares her expertise on how exercise affects babies during pregnancy, labor, birth, and postpartum. She also touches on topics like when to start prenatal exercise, what to do if you didn’t exercise before pregnancy, how late into pregnancy you can exercise, weightlifting, and which movements to incorporate to create more space in the pelvis. 

Gina’s comprehensive prenatal fitness book, Training for Two, will be released in September 2024. It is a fantastic resource for all pregnant women!

Link to Gina's Book: Training for Two
MamasteFit Website
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

01:00 Review of the Week
03:59 Is it bad to exercise during pregnancy? 
09:00 How will exercise affect my baby’s development? 
13:40 Better pregnancies, better birth outcomes
16:23 What do I do if I wasn’t active before pregnancy?
19:30 Movements to incorporate
20:59 Three pelvic levels 
23:19 The mid-pelvis and outlet
25:56 Being told that your pelvis is too small
30:36 How late in pregnancy is okay to work out?
32:31 When is it too late to start exercising during pregnancy?
34:43 Postpartum fitness
39:20 Weightlifting and pregnancy
45:51 Training for Two

Meagan: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the show. We are going to be talking about prenatal fitness today with the one and only Gina Conley. Gina is the founder of MamasteFit, a prenatal fitness training company based out in North Carolina. Gina is a fitness trainer specializing in pre and post-natal fitness and a birth doula. She combines her expertise in both to prepare her clients for a strong pregnancy and birth. 

Fitness in general is one of my all-time favorite things to do and talk about. I do notice a difference when I’m not moving my body, but when it comes to pregnancy, there are a lot of questions surrounding fitness. Is it safe? When is it okay to start? Is it really okay to start later on? How to start? And so much more. 

I can’t wait to dive in on all of the amazing information that Gina is going to share after the Review of the Week. 

01:00 Review of the Week
Meagan: Just a reminder, if you have not left a review, I would love for you to do so. You can leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Google, Spotify, Facebook, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. 

Today’s review is by Janae Rachelle. It says, “The Best There Is.” It says, “I am so happy I found this podcast. After having two prior C-sections, I was convinced I would have to have another C-section for my birth this November. I feel empowered and educated and hopeful I can do this. Thank you for all of the true facts and the safe space where we can all talk about our birth trauma and space where we don’t sound ‘crazy’ for wanting to do something God created our bodies to do.”

Thank you, Janae Rachelle, for leaving that review. You are right. This is that space. This is the space where we do talk about all of the crazy things, where we talk about the trauma, where we talk about the things where in the outside world if we were to discuss them, people would and sometimes do look at us like we may be crazy. But Women of Strength, if you are wanting to pursue a VBAC, if you are wanting to learn about the evidence about VBAC, this is definitely the place. 

All of these stories here are going to share so much information, guidance, facts, and all of the things, and definitely leave you feeling inspired. 

03:59 Is it bad to exercise during pregnancy? 
Meagan: Okay, it’s been so fun. We’ve actually ha