Call Me Back - with Dan Senor Unlocked FM

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Since October 7th, many of us have had uncomfortable conversations we could never have imagined having. October 7th sparked debates and discussions that got very awkward very quickly.





But what’s unique about our guests today is that they were having these conversations prior to October 7th. Not only were they having these conversations, they were working on a book that chronicled these difficult conversations. Their book is called “Uncomfortable Conversations with a Jew”. It’s by Noa Tishby and Emmanuel Acho.





Emmanuel is a #1 New York Times bestselling author and the host and producer of an online series called "Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man". Emmanuel was nominated for an emmy award for this series. He’s also a 2021 Sports Emmy winner, a Fox Sports Analyst. And, perhaps most importantly, Emmanuel is a former NFL linebacker.



Noa Tishby is the New York Times bestselling author of Israel: A Simple Guide to the Most Misunderstood Country on Earth. A native of Tel Aviv, she served in the Israeli army before moving to Los Angeles and launching a career in the entertainment industry. An award-winning producer, Tishby made history with the sale of In Treatment to HBO, the first Israeli television show to become an American series. She has had an extraordinary career in Israeli television and film.



To order their book:

Amazon - https://tinyurl.com/4k3uv8av
B&N - https://tinyurl.com/mv2xfxsp

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One of the questions we repeatedly get from you, our listeners, is - "Where was the IDF on October 7th?" It's a topic that we have strenuously avoided. After the war, there will be a formal commission of inquiry that attempts to understand all that went wrong and why. There will be a time and a place for that.

And yet, as the war in Gaza winds down, and as Israel prepares for another possible war, this question re-emerges. What lessons can be learned? More and more journalists in Israel are exploring the topic. So, we are going to dedicate an episode from time to time in the weeks ahead to try to understand what these journalists are learning.

Our only caveat is that this is a difficult topic to explore - for all the obvious reasons. The information is uneven... there is still an element of fog of war.

When I was in Israel last week, I visited Ronen Bergman in his home in Ramat HaSharon, to have a long conversation about what he has pieced together.

Ronen is a staff writer for The New York Times Magazine and Senior Correspondent for Military and Intelligence Affairs for Yedioth Ahronoth, an Israeli daily. Ronen recently won a Pulitzer Prize for his reporting on this war and the pre-war intelligence failures.

He has published numerous books, including:

“Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel’s Targeted Assassinations” - https://tinyurl.com/mwbmchaj

And also, “The Secret War with Iran" - https://tinyurl.com/2p8sh9u


Ronen is also a member of the Israeli bar (he clerked in the Attorney General’s Office), and has a master’s degree in international relations, as well as a Ph.D. in history from Cambridge University.

Read Ronen's piece in The New York Times here: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html

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Is now the time for Israeli decision-makers to begin serious internal deliberations and planning for the “day after” in Gaza? According to Nadav Eyal in his column last Friday in Yediot, over 95% of Hamas rockets are gone, Hamas’s smuggling routes have been closed, and its munitions production capacity is zero. Is progress in defeating Hamas appears much better than one would think from reading popular press accounts?


It’s against that backdrop that we’ve learned of a 28-page document -- this is not publica -- and is circulating among Israeli military leaders and war strategy decision-makers within the government. Some we spoke to suggested that this document is being treated as the basis for ‘day after’ planning in the government. It’s called: "From a murderous regime to a moderate society: the transformation and rehabilitation of Gaza after Hamas". The researchers are Prof. Netta Barak-Corren, a law professor who works on conflict resolution; Prof. Danny Orbach, a military historian; Dr. Nati Flamer who specializes in Hamas and Hezbollah; and Dr. Harel Chorev, an expert on Palestinian society.


To help us understand these recommendations, we are joined today by one of its authors, Prof. Netta Barak-Corren, who is a legal scholar with degrees from the Hebrew University (where she is a professor). She clerked for the Chief Justice of the Israeli Supreme Court, and then pursued doctoral studies at Harvard, graduating in 2016. She currently is on leave from Hebrew University, while she’s visiting faculty at Princeton. She’s previously taught at University of Pennsylvania and University of Chicago.

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Today in this special episode, we are releasing the first episode of the Call me Back podcast recorded before a very enthusiastic live audience at the Comedy Cellar in Manhattan. Our guest was actor, director and comedian Michael Rapaport.

The focus of our conversation is about how Michael became such an energetic, provocative, and hilarious voice on behalf of Israel and the Jewish people since 10/07, as well as his observations on why more Jews from the creative arts and entertainment industry have not been as outspoken as him (or, even worse, why so many have remained silent).

We also discuss his reaction to those who criticize Israel “as a Jew”, and his experience dealing with the professional cost of proudly advocating for Israel and the Jewish people.

You can follow Michael on X here: https://x.com/MichaelRapaport
And on IG here: https://www.instagram.com/michaelrapaport/
Find Michael's podcast, I AM RAPAPORT here: https://www.iamrapaport.com/

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First, a housekeeping note: many of you filled out the survey we published in our previous episode, and we are very grateful for that. If you haven't filled out this 2-minute survey we would greatly appreciate it if you took 2 minutes to fill it out. It is extremely helpful to us in thinking through ways to improve the podcast and understand our audience. Please follow this link to the survey: https://forms.gle/nZh8ZRA5YjJxmdEW6



As for today's episode - I've been in Israel for the past couple of days, for my 4th visit here since 10/07. Something that has struck me in my conversations with Israelis is the degree to which a war with Hezbollah is not discussed in terms of IF, but rather in terms of WHEN. And as for the WHEN, some are suggesting quite soon. In fact, Defense Minister Gallant said that the goal should be that for those Israelis evacuated from the North, they should be back in their evacuated communities and homes in time for the next school year.  This would put to the test the IDF’s capacity to fight a multi front war. In other words - while the IDF is getting closer to the point of defeating Hamas in Gaza - it might also be at the early stages of a war with Hezbollah.



To help us understand what’s going on here, our guest today is NADAV EYAL, who returns to the podcast. I sat down with him today in Tel Aviv. He is a columnist for Yediot. Eyal has been covering Middle-Eastern and international politics for the last two decades for Israeli radio, print and television news. 



Nadav's latest column, which we discussed in this episode: https://tinyurl.com/msk43n53

First, a housekeeping note: Over the past eight months the audience for this podcast has grown in ways we could never have imagined, but there is no real way for us to know who is listening - age group, ideological leanings, the country you are living in, etc. These are all very helpful data points for us to improve the podcast and understand our audience. So, please fill out this 2 minute survey: https://forms.gle/nZh8ZRA5YjJxmdEW6

And one other item we wanted to bring to your attention. We are repeatedly reminded how the NYPD has continued to bravely protect our community— most recently 10 days ago at the Nova Music Festival exhibition where a mob of antisemitic rioters attempted to intimidate Jewish New Yorkers, and just before that when the NYPD helped ensure a smooth Israel Day Parade here in New York in which over 100,000 people participated. To express our thanks for helping to keep our Jewish community and all New Yorkers safe, The Paul E. Singer Foundation is matching donations up to $200,000 made to the New York City Police Foundation. Donations must be made Monday, June 24, 2024. Join us to meet and exceed this goal. If interested in donating, you can do it here: https://secure.anedot.com/nycpolicefoundation/thepesfoundation

As for today's episode, as we discussed at length in our last episode -- "Haviv Unplugged!" -- the issue of a military service exemption for Haredi Jews (ultra-Orthodox Jews) is coming to a head right now, as Israel is at war. Or maybe it's coming to a head with such ferocity precisely because Israel is at war, and it's raising all sorts of questions about whether Israel has the manpower to fight a continued war in Gaza and possibly other fronts that could open up. It does seem like Israel is in an entirely new military environment, across multiple fronts. Also, are some parts of the Israeli population paying a disproportionately high price?

These are questions that are being considered right now by Israel's government. These are questions that are weighing especially heavy on society after 12 soldiers over the past few days. Dr. Micah Goodman is our guest today, to help us unpack all of this. Micah is on the speed-dial of a number of Israeli political leaders – from right to left, but especially on the center-left and the center-right. He is a polymath, a podcaster and one of Israel’s most influential public intellectuals, having written books ranging from biblical lessons for the modern age to Israel’s geopolitics. One book in particular, had an outsized impact in terms of its framing of the conundrum that Israel has been in with the Palestinians since 1967. That book is called "Catch-67: The Left, the Right, and the Legacy of the Six-Day War", Not only have all of his books been bestsellers in Israel, he essentially created a new genre; books that bring core texts of Jewish thought to a general, secular audience.

In his new book – called "The Eighth Day", which Micah wrote in a four-month sprint after October 7th – Micah tries to understand the implications of the nation’s trauma and what it means for the other ‘day after’ (not the ‘day after’ in Gaza, but the ‘day after’ inside Israel). What does this moment mean for Israelis? How will 10/07 re-shape Israeli society…and its politics?

Micah Goodman’s books:

Catch-67 — https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/catch-67-micah-goodman/1128089735?ean=9780300248418

The Wondering Jew — https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-wondering-jew-micah-goodman/1136574622?ean=9780300252248