182 episodes

This podcast features David D. Burns MD, author of "Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy," describing powerful new techniques to overcome depression and anxiety and develop greater joy and self-esteem. For therapists and the general public alike!

Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy David Burns, MD

    • Mental Health

This podcast features David D. Burns MD, author of "Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy," describing powerful new techniques to overcome depression and anxiety and develop greater joy and self-esteem. For therapists and the general public alike!

    181: LIve Therapy with Sarah: Shrinks are Human, Too!

    181: LIve Therapy with Sarah: Shrinks are Human, Too!

    In my workshops and weekly training group for community therapists at Stanford, we often include personal work as a part of the training. The personal work can help in several ways:
    When you’ve successfully done your own personal work, you will feel greater joy and energy in your personal life and in your clinical work as well. You will have a much deeper understanding of how TEAM-CBT actually works. You will be able to deliver faster and deeper therapy to your patients. You’ll be able to tell your patients, “I know how you feel, because I’ve been there myself. And what a joy it’s going to be to show you the way out of the woods, too!” Those who observe the therapy develop a greater understanding of how the fine points of effective therapy. When the person in the “patient” role has a profound change, we all share that joy and feel inspired by the miracles that can often be accomplished in a relatively short period of time. As they say, “seeing is believing.” Rhonda recently surveyed some of our listeners about live therapy we sometimes offer on our podcasts—do you prefer to have the live therapy presented all at once, in an extended, two-hour podcast, or split up over two or more podcasts with expert commentary along the way?
    Our listeners were split on this. So today we are presenting an actual and dramatic therapy session in its entirely. If you don’t have two hours to listen all at once, you can stop after an hour or so, and then return to the last portion when you have more time.
    And please let us know what you think of this live therapy podcast format!
    In today’s session, we are very grateful to Sarah, a certified TEAM-CBT therapist, for allowing us to share her very personal and powerful session with you. Sarah was having intense anxiety during her sessions with patients, and her anxiety was bordering on panic.
    This is actually not unusual. In my experience, most shrinks struggle with feelings of insecurity from time to time. But when we shrinks experience insecurities, we often feel strong shame as well, telling ourselves that we “should” have it all together because we are supposedly “experts.”
    I’m no exception! I can remember how anxious I used to feel on Sundays when I was starting out in private practice. I’d tell myself, “Wow, I’m going to have all of these high-powered patients tomorrow, and what if they notice that I don’t actually know what I’m doing half of the time!?”
    But then, halfway through Monday morning, it would dawn on me that my patients didn’t seem to notice or care about my flaws, and I’d relax!
    Although Sarah brought a Daily Mood Log to the session, listing all of the negative thoughts that were triggering her anxiety, along with many other intense negative feelings, the session took an unexpected turn in the direction of the Hidden Emotion Model.
    We’ve done several podcasts on this powerful technique before, and now you have the chance to see how it works first-hand! Instead of challenging Sarah’s negative thoughts, as we usually do, we asked whether there was something bothering Sarah that she wasn’t telling us about, due to her arguably excessive “niceness.”
    I think you’ll enjoy listening, and you may learn a little, too! My co-therapists for this session included Dr. Rhonda Barovsky, my beloved and brilliant podcast host, as well as Kevin Cornelius, MFT, a fabulous TEAM therapist whom I’ve recently featured in a recent blog!
    Rhonda and I want to thank you, Sarah, once again, for your tremendous courage and generosity!
    David and Rhonda

    • 1 hr 55 min
    180: Feeling Great: The Book and the App!

    180: Feeling Great: The Book and the App!

    Rhonda and David are joined today by Jeremy Karmel who is working with David on a new Feeling Great app.
    Rhonda begins by reading several amazing emails from fans whose lives have been changed by the podcasts as well as David’s books, including Jessica, Tim, and Mike. Thank you, everyone, for such kind and thoughtful comments!

    This great photo of Rhonda is courtesy of Nancy Mueller, a local photographer who kindly took some pics at my home in Los Altos, California.
    David describes his upcoming book, Feeling Great, which will be released in September of 2020. It will move well beyond his first book, Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy, all will incorporate all of the latest hi-speed treatment techniques in TEAM-CBT (aka “Feeling Great Therapy.”) David describes his excitement about the team he is working with to publish his latest book, including Linda Jackson at PESI (the publishing company), and Jenessa Jackson, his editor.
    Jeremy describes why he approached David to develop a Feeling Great app. As a Stanford student, he was depressed and had to drop out of school for semester. Antidepressants and talk therapy had done nothing for him, so he was feeling hopeless.
    Then Jeremy discovered one of Dr. Burns’ students, Dr. Matthew May, and recovered in just two weeks, which was mind-blowing. Matt was one of the first practitioners in the world to use the new TEAM-CBT, Jeremy felt a tremendous drive to make these powerful new techniques available to people around the world.
    David and Rhonda, of course, share this goal! In fact, Rhonda has recently gone to Mexico City as well as India to support the sudden and strong emergence of TEAM-CBT in those countries.
    Rhonda asks Jeremy many questions about the amazing recovery he experienced in his work with Dr. May, and how he’s been doing since. Then Rhonda, Jeremy, and David address a number of intriguing questions about the new app. For example, there is tremendous evidence from research that David’s first book, Feeling Good, has significant antidepressant effects. In fact, many published studies have confirmed that more than 50% of depressed individuals will recover or improve dramatically within four weeks if you just give them a copy of the book.
    Is it possible that an app that incorporates all the great methods in Feeling Good, plus all the new techniques in TEAM-CBT, could be even more effective? And if so, would this mean that an electronic app could even outperform human therapists as well as antidepressant medications?
    David says that this has been his dream for more than 40 years, and he thinks this is a definite possibility. Jeremy agrees, since the app, now in creation, has the potential to be far more powerful and systematic than reading a book or even going to a therapist.
    Rhonda asks: "Are you trying to put human therapists out of business?"
    David believes that there will always be a place for human therapists, since the person to person support and connection is invaluable and desperately needed.
    However, the Feeling Great app can actually be a friend of human therapists, just as his book, Feeling Good, has been, working hand in hand with therapists helping to accelerate the recovery of their patients.
    In addition, the app can bring rapid help and relief to millions of people worldwide who cannot afford therapy, and those who simply cannot find effective therapy. David emphasizes the goal of having an entirely free version of the app for people without resources.
    Rhonda asks: "Will you be doing research as well as self-help “treatment” with the new app?"
    The answer to that is absolutely, yes, and the implications for incredible research into the causes and treatments for depression, anxiety and relationship problems are immense, especially if thousands or even tens of thousands of individuals use the Feeling Great app.
    For example, David ha

    • 37 min
    179: My Husband is Leaving Me. I Think He Needs Help!

    179: My Husband is Leaving Me. I Think He Needs Help!

    Rhonda and David are joined today by Dr. Michael Greenwald, who was in the studio following his recording of last week’s podcast. We address a fascinating question submitted by a podcast fan:
    Sally asks” “How can I help my depressed husband who is leaving me?”
    Hello Dr David,
    My husband is going through severe depression and anxiety. He blames me frequently for all the bad decisions he made, and he says he married the wrong woman.
    He regrets almost every decision he made and says he made the decision [to marry me] under my pressure. Our marriage of 20 years is almost leading to separation.
    I don’t want to separate, but I don’t know how I can improve the situation. He doesn’t want to go to any doctor.
    Do you think if I decide to go to TEAM certified therapist, they can work on me to get him out of his depression? If yes, how many sessions will it take?
    Sally
    David, Rhonda and Michael discuss this sad and difficult situation that Sally describes. Feeling loved and cared about is vitally important to nearly all of us, and when an important relationship is threatened, it can be extremely painful.
    It sounds like Sally's husband may be on the verge of leaving her. David describes a powerful and paradoxical strategy he described in Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy, that he has often used to help abandoned wives. The approach is the opposite of "chasing," and is based on experimental research on the most effective ways of shaping the behavior of rats!
    It also sounds like Sally and her husband have some significant difficulties communicating in a loving and supportive way, like nearly all couples who are not getting along, and certainly some couples therapy or consultation might be a useful step. However, the prognosis for couples therapy isn't terribly positive unless both partners are strongly committed to each other, and willing to work on their own problems, as opposed to trying to change or “fix” the other person.
    We place a strong emphasis on the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, especially the listening skills, when criticized by a patient, family member, colleague, or just about anyone. If Sally committed herself to learning to use these skills—which are NOT easy to learn—she might be able to develop a more loving and satisfying relationship with her husband, whether or not they separate or stay together. David expresses the opinion that her fixation on “helping” or “fixing” him might be misguided, and might actually irritate him and drive him away.
    Rhonda, Michael and David illustrate David’s “Intimacy Exercise,” which is a way of learning to use the Five Secrets, and they practice with three of the criticisms Sally has heard from her husband:
    “You pressured me into marrying you.” “You’re to blame for all the bad decisions I’ve made.” “I married the wrong woman.” After each exchange, the person playing Sally’s role receives a grade (A, B, C, etc.) along with a brief analysis of why, followed by role-reversals. These role play demonstrations might be interesting and useful for you, too, because you’ll see how this exercise works, and your eyes will also be opened to just how challenging it can be to respond to a painful criticism in a skillful way, and how mind-blowing it is when you do it right. You will also see that trained mental health professionals often make mistakes when learning these skills, and how you can increase your skills through this type of practice.
    David emailed Sally with some additional resources that could be helpful to her.
    Hi Sally,
    Thank you so much for your question, and for giving us the permission to read and discuss your question on a podcast. We will, however, change your name to protect your identity.
    For referrals for treatment, you can check the referral page on my website,  or go to the website of the Feeling

    • 46 min
    178: Social Anxiety Be Gone! The Awesome Atlanta TEAM Therapy Demonstration!

    178: Social Anxiety Be Gone! The Awesome Atlanta TEAM Therapy Demonstration!

    In today’s podcast, Rhonda and David are honored to interview Dr. Michael Greenwald, a courageous clinical psychologist who helped make the Atlanta Intensive a truly amazing event. Michael volunteered for the live demonstration to work on his lifelong problem with social anxiety, which seems to be a popular topic these days, and likely a personal problem for many podcast fans.
    My co-therapist was Thai-An Truong, a highly respected TEAM therapist and TEAM therapy trainer from Oklahoma City. Thai-An also joins today’s podcast via Zoom and dialogues with Michael for the first time since the intensive.
    The session with Michael was powerful and inspiring, with a good 50% of the audience in tears (of joy) at the end. Michael recorded the session on his cell phone, but the quality was not up to the quality of our podcast recordings, so he agreed to fly up to the “Murietta Studios” from his home in Los Angeles so we could at least describe what happened and share the magic with you. If we can find a way to do some sound enhancement on the cellphone recording of the session, we will likely publish it as a separate mid-week podcast for those who like to hear the incredible therapeutic process unfolding in real time.
    If you review Michael’s Daily Mood Log at the start of the session, you’ll see that he was feeling depressed, anxious, ashamed, worthless, lonely, self-conscious, discouraged and stuck, and all of these feelings were intense. In addition, he told us that he wasn’t feeling much joy, self-esteem, pleasure or satisfaction in his life.
    But the strongest feeling was anxiety. He said that coming up on stage to face his fears was an enormous challenge, and that this was the first time he’d ever done something like this. We will do T = Testing again at the end to see what changed, and by how much. We’ll also ask Michael to complete the Empathy and Helpfulness surveys, so we can find out how he experienced Thai-An and David during the session.
    You may be saddened by the upsetting event Michael recorded at the top of his Daily Mood Log, which was “sitting with my son and trying to make conversation with him.” He said their conversations were always pretty superficial, and that he would typically leave the room after short interactions with his son because he felt so anxious.
    Here’s an example of a typical exchange. Michael’s son, a graduate student in clinical psychology, was working on his applications to internship programs.
    Michael: What’s up?
    Son: I’m working on my applications to internship programs.
    Michael: That’s good. How’s it going? Are you getting them in on time?
    Son: Yah, it’s fine.
    Michael: Are you completing them? Do you want me to look at them?
    Son: All fine.
    If you review the negative thoughts on Michael’s Daily Mood Log, you’ll see that he felt like a failure as a father because he did not know how to get close to his son or how to tell him just how much he loved him. He was telling himself things like this:
    Something is wrong with me because I can’t talk to him. 100% I am failing him as a father. 100% He deserves so much better than me. 100% He must wish he had a different father. 95% And more. I was sad to see that Michael had been beating up on himself pretty badly for years, and I'm pretty sure that the therapists in the audience felt the same way, because it was so clear that he was a tremendously humble, giving and loving father who was totally devoted to his sons. I found myself thinking, "My gosh, I wish I'd been half the father that Michael is!"
    The E = Empathy phase of the session lasted about 30 minutes. Michael indicated that Thai-An and I had done a good job, and that he felt understood and accepted, so we went on to A = Assessment of Resistance in a step-by-step manner, using these tools:
    The “Invitation Step” to find out if he was rea

    • 1 hr 12 min
    177: Our Beloved Fabrice returns! New Psychedelic Research!

    177: Our Beloved Fabrice returns! New Psychedelic Research!

    Rhonda, Fabrice, and David discuss psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy, Fabrice’s wonderful new marriage, his fascinating new podcast (http://peaceatlast.us/), and more.
    David and Rhonda are thrilled to have our beloved friend and colleague, Dr. Fabrice Nye, as the special guest on today’s podcast. Many of you will remember Fabrice as the man who gave birth to the Feeling Good Podcast, and acted as host for the first 133 podcasts.
    Fabrice describes many events since he turned over the reins to Rhonda earlier this year, including his recent marriage and move to the beautiful but fire-ravaged Russian River area roughly 100 miles north of San Francisco. However, Fabrice still maintains his clinical practice on a part time basis in Redwood City, in the San Francisco Bay area.
    The main focus of today’s podcast is Fabrice’s participation in promising new research on the treatment of PTSD. The participants in the study are veterans receiving psychotherapy that is assisted by treatment with MDMA during extended treatment session. MDMD is also known as the party drug, Ecstasy. However, the MDMA used in the research is chemically pure, whereas Ecstasy is generally obtained on the street and may not be pure.
    Fabrice describes MDMA as an “empathogen” that makes people more loving and more in touch with their emotions. This can make it easier for patients with PTSD to talk about their traumatic experiences and painful feelings, which people with PTSD usually try to avoid. Avoidance makes all forms of anxiety much worse, where as exposure is usually beneficial.
    Patients in the study received three treatment sessions, and a preliminary analysis indicated that one third of them improved to the point that they no longer had symptoms severe enough to be diagnosed with PTSD. Further studies are in progress, including a study with a control group, as well as follow-up studies to find out whether the improvement continued and whether some of the patients relapsed.
    Fabrice also describes the fascinating new trend in treatment of a variety of conditions with psychedelics, including psilocybin, mescaline, and ayawauska. I expressed my personal support for this trend, as these substances have been used by hundreds, if not thousands of years, for spiritual purposes by indigenous people throughout the world.
    And perhaps the coolest thing we learned was that Fabrice will be starting his own terrific podcast entitled PeaceAtLast.us about the time today’s podcast will be published. PeaceAtLast.us will focus on the overlap between spirituality and psychotherapy, a topic that I have always found extremely interesting and helpful in my own clinical work using TEAM-CBT. You might want to check out the new Fabrice podcast! I know that Rhonda and I will!
    After the podcast, we received the following email from Fabrice, which includes many resources for those of you wanting more information about psychedelics and psychotherapy, as well as his new podcast.
    Hi David and Rhonda,
    It felt so good to be reunited with you for an hour. Wish we didn’t have to cut it so short. Here are some of the links that you may want to provide to your listeners.
    Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), which sponsors and funds the Phase 3 trial of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD: https://maps.org/ Michal & Annie Mithoefer, lead researchers for the study: https://mapspublicbenefit.com/staff/michael-mithoefer-m-d/ Psychedelic research at Johns Hopkins University: https://hopkinspsychedelic.org/ Roland Griffiths, main researcher for psilocybin studies at JHU: https://hopkinspsychedelic.org/griffiths List of federal clinical trials involving psychedelics in the U.S.: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=&term=psychedelic&cntry=US Article on how to have a legal psychedelic experience (but not necessarily a safe one): https://psyc

    • 58 min
    176: My suicidal daughter refuses to talk with me / How can I deal with my jealousy?

    176: My suicidal daughter refuses to talk with me / How can I deal with my jealousy?

     
    Rhonda and David discuss two challenging questions submitted by listeners like you. 
    Question #1: Cindy asks: My suicidal daughter refuses to talk to me! What can I do?
    Comment: Dear David,
    I stumbled upon you teaching in another podcast a few months ago. Immediately I was stunned by how much your words echoed in my mind. I have listened to your book three times in Audible and many of your podcasts. You Changed my life!!!
    I am much more relaxed now and I can sleep!!! I talked about you with my massage therapist and she bought your book for her daughter (who has anxiety attacks) and her niece. Her daughter is an aspiring artist who said that she would buy your book and give them away to teens when she becomes famous.
    I now ask you to change another life, that of my daughter's. She has been depressed for more than 20 years, suicidal (bought a noose, watches suicide movies, talked about ways to kill herself) and no therapists could help. We went to therapy together this past summer and it only ended that she abruptly canceled and is no longer responding to me by any means: phone, text, card, or email. The last time I saw her was late August and she was very down and had very poor personal hygiene. I have since sent her a loving text at least every other day, I offer to drive to her city (an hour away) to have dinner with her, I sincerely apologized for everything I could think of that I have done wrong since she was a child, I sent gifts to her by mail, I invite her to come for holidays, I ask her cousins to call (she did respond to them). No response to me at all. I am wondering how to communicate with a loved one who just totally shut you off.
    Always your fan,
    Cindy
    Thank you, Cindy. Sorry to hear about your daughter, very concerning. My heart goes out to you. Our own daughter had a rough time as a teenager, too, but now is doing great. I hope things evolve with your daughter, too.
    This podcast may help: https://feelinggood.com/2019/10/28/164-how-to-help-and-how-not-to-help/ as well as this one:
    https://feelinggood.com/2019/02/04/126-how-to-communicate-with-someone-who-refuses-to-talk-to-you/
    The first podcast highlights common errors in trying to “help” someone who is hurting, and emphasizes how to respond more effectively, using the Five Secrets of Effective Communication.
    The second podcast illustrates how to get people to open up using one of the advanced secrets called “Multiple Choice Empathy / Multiple Choice Disarming.
    My book, Feeling Good Together, explains these techniques in detail, with practice exercises, and includes an entire chapter on how to talk to someone who refuses to talk to you. You can learn more on my book page. (https://feelinggood.com/books/). Some support from a mental health professional might also be helpful to you, as these techniques sound simple, but are actually challenging to master.
    Your daughter might also benefit from my book, Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy (https://feelinggood.com/books/). It is not a substitute for treatment from a mental health professional, but research studies indicate that more than 60% of the people who read it improve significantly in just four weeks. It is inexpensive, and I’ve linked to it if you want to take a look.
    All the best,
    David
    Question #2: Lorna asks: How can I deal with my jealousy?
    Comment: Hi David,
    I've recently discovered your books and your podcast and CBT has really been helping me in my personal life. I really want to thank you for all the amazing work you do!!
    The issue I'm having however seems to still really get my moods down and I was wondering if perhaps you could offer some general advice via the podcast.
    I'm in a great relationship but the ex-girlfriend of my partner has recently moved back to the city where we live and now we are in similar social circles. They were together for a very long time a

    • 42 min

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