038: Building the trust layer for agentic payments | Ghali Bennani Laafiret, CEO Ralio

Ghali and the team at Ralio are building the trust layer for agentic payments - solving the problem of how businesses can safely let AI agents initiate and execute payments without human oversight.In this episode, Ghali explains what agentic payments actually are (payments initiated by non-deterministic AI, not humans or configured software), why the timing matters, and how Ralio sits between agent builders and payment providers to abstract complexity on both sides.We discuss the three categories of agentic payments: - consumer (agent e-commerce), - agent-to-agent (microtransactions for tools and content) - business payments (invoice processing, payroll). Ghali shares why they're focused on business payments, how they discovered the problem, and why agents need different infrastructure than traditional software.Plus: the reality of AI agents going rogue (retrying payments 5 times to be helpful), why you can't just give Claude your bank account access, and why raising money just means 10x harder challenges ahead.Ghali also shares meeting his co-founder at Antler, why future businesses won't even know what a UI looks like, and the seasons of agentic payments evolution.