102. Copies in Museums Museum Archipelago

On Berlin’s Museum Island, four stone lion statues perch in the Pergamon Museum. Three of these lions are originals — that is to say, lions carved from dolerite rock between the 10th and 8th centuries BCE in Samʼal (Zincirli) in southern Turkey. And one is a plaster copy made a little over 100 years ago.


Pergamon Museum curator Pinar Durgun has heard a range of negative visitor reactions to this copy — from disappointment to feeling tricked — and engages visitors to think more deeply about copies. As an archeologist and art historian, Durgun is fascinated by the cultural attitude and history of copies: the stories they tell about their creators’ values, how they can be used to keep original objects in situ, and their role in repatriation or restitution cases.


In this episode, Durgun describes the ways that museum visitors’ perception of authenticity has changed over time, how replicas jump-started museum collections in the late 19th-century, and some of the ethical implications of copies in museums.


Image: Reconstructed Lion Sculpture Sam'al near modern Zincirli Höyük, Turkey 10th-8th century BCE by Mary Harrsch


Topics and Notes


00:00 Intro
00:15 Sam’al/Zincirli Lions
01:09 Pinar Durgun
01:22 Museum Island
01:40 Find Divison
02:28 Gipsformerei
03:12 Replicas Jump-Started Museum Collections
04:35 Trending Away from Copies
05:27 When Visitors Feel Tricked
06:00 When Visitors Are Okay With Copies
07:28 Ancient Cultural Contexts About Copies
08:07 Hokusai’s Great Wave
08:35 “Immersive Experiences” Made Up of Digital Copies
09:08 Digital Copies
12:39 Museum Archipelago 97. Richard Nixon Hoped to Never Say These Words about Apollo 11. In A New Exhibit, He Does.
13:32 How Should Museums Present Copies in Their Collections?
14:36 Outro | Join Club Archipelago 🏖


Museum Archipelago is a tiny show guiding you through the rocky landscape of museums. Subscribe to the podcast via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Overcast, Spotify, or even email to never miss an episode.



Support Museum Archipelago🏖️


Club Archipelago offers exclusive access to Museum Archipelago extras. It’s also a great way to support the show directly.

Join the Club for just $2/month.

Your Club Archipelago membership includes:
Access to a private podcast that guides you further behind the scenes of museums. Hear interviews, observations, and reviews that don’t make it into the main show;
Archipelago at the Movies 🎟️, a bonus bad-movie podcast exclusively featuring movies that take place at museums;
Logo stickers, pins and other extras, mailed straight to your door;
A warm feeling knowing you’re supporting the podcast.










Transcript
Below is a transcript of Museum Archipelago episode 102. For more information on the people and ideas in the episode, refer to the links above.




View Transcript



Welcome to Museum Archipelago. I'm Ian Elsner. Museum Archipelago guides you through the rocky landscape of museums. Each episode is rarely longer than 15 minutes, so let's get started.


On the Museum Island in Berlin, four stone lion statues perch in the Pergamon Museum. Three of these lions are originals — that is to say, lions carved from dolerite rock between the 10th and 8th centuries BCE. And one is a plaster copy carved a bit over 100 years ago.



Pinar Durgun:  When you see these lions, you cannot tell the difference which one is a copy, which one is original.



And lately, curator Pinar Durgun has been wondering how visitors feel about that copy.



Pinar Durgun: But when I tell visitors, this one is a copy. So how do you feel about that? How do you feel about a copy being here? Do you feel like you've been tricked?


Pinar Durgun: And if I ask a question like this, they say yes. They say, I don't like copies.



Durgun works at the Pergamon Museum, where those Gate lions from Samʼal are now perched -- well, some of them.



Pinar Durgun: My name is Pi