2 Pages with MBS Michael Bungay Stanier

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Are you living for 70 years, or are you living the same year 70 times?

It’s one of the great existential questions that writers and creators face, too – Am I writing many books, or am I writing the same book many times? Sure, the “best” answer seems obvious, but I’m not sure the true answer is always clear-cut. Malcolm Galdwell made popular a study that showed the difference between two great artists, Picasso and Cezanne; there’s deep and there’s wide, and it’s an eternal rhythm. Get‌ ‌book‌ ‌links‌ ‌and‌ ‌resources‌ ‌at‌ https://www.mbs.works/2-pages-podcast/

Geoff Dyer is a real writer. He’s the award-winning author of four novels, as well as numerous non-fiction titles on D. H. Lawrence, understanding photography, yoga, and more. 

Geoff reads two pages from ‘The Country and the City’ by Raymond Williams. [reading begins at 23:45]  

Hear us discuss: 
The relationship between photography and writing. [6:33] | “Write the book that only you can write.” [11:47] | Self-expression as a learnt practice: “I became a very original writer by being incredibly susceptible to influences.” [11:53] | “The writing life is full of surprises.” [35:06] | The most important lessons in writing. [36:53]

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So how are politics going in your country? ... No, no, don't tell me - you're just delighted with how your version of democracy is currently showing up. ... I am truly feeling the pain and the confusion. And the inadequacy, of course, not knowing what to do about it right now.

But what if in the future the good guys win? And if you knew that you were one of the good guys - and I think you are - what would that call forth from you? 

On Rob Hopkins’ website there is a photo of him holding a sign that says, ‘I've been to the future…’ Rob is a father, a husband, a speaker. He's an author, he's an artist. He's a gardener. And perhaps central to all of that. He is an activist. Rob co-founded Transition Network and also Transition Town. 

Rob reads two pages from ‘We Do This ‘Til We Free Us’ by Mariame Kaba. [reading begins at 13:50]  

Hear us discuss: 
“We need to build what I like to think of as being an imagination infrastructure.” [3:32] | How to sustain energy as an activist. [6:09] | The power of ‘What if?’ [11:41] | “And the only reason we're going to do it is if we're able to talk about what the radical transformation of society would be like in a way that is so irresistible and delicious and magnificent that of course, we want to do that.” [18:50] | “What does it mean to be someone whose work unlocks different possibilities and different ways of thinking about the future?” [21:03] | The goal of enlightenment is to free others. [26:41] | “The kind of activist [anyone] can be is entirely something that they shape themselves and is a reflection of what they're passionate about and what they care about and what they grieve for and what delights them.” [39:40]

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‘The map is not the territory.’
This is one of those obvious yet profound insights: the thing we use to try and understand reality, is not reality. It’s true for all charts in companies, for instance. While they tell you a lot, they don’t have all the answers. Your map of the world, what does it tell you and what does it not? 

Tiziana Casciaro is Professor of Organizational Behavior at the Rotman School of Management at the University of Toronto, and co-author of the book Power, for All: How It Really Works and Why It’s Everyone’s Business. 

Tiziana reads two pages from ‘The Heart is Noble’ by the 17th Karmapa, Ogyen Trinley Dorje. [reading begins at 26:25]  

Hear us discuss: 
The study of the nonobvious. [6:33] | “When you have a lot of power imbalance, in the long run, bad things tend to happen.” [13:46] | The challenges and consequences of power in organizational spaces. [15:11] | “The world would be infinitely better if we were all more aware of how interdependent we are.” [33:03] | Power for all: “Sharing power doesn’t mean giving up power, it means empowering others.” [37:00] | Moving from certainty to ambiguity: “Remind yourself of the good in you so that you will be able to appreciate the good in others without fearing they will take over.” [42:33] | How human behavior is influenced by context. [46:41] 

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What was your first dream that felt big? The first time you set your eyes on something and thought, ‘I’d like to strive for that.’ Or, on the flip side, ‘I’m not accepting the status quo anymore, something needs to change.’ You were probably young, and though the motives may have not been entirely clear to you, it was a moment of stepping up and claiming your authority; of claiming the next best version of you. 

Olatunde Sobomehin is the co-author of the book Creative Hustle, and the CEO at StreetCode Academy, a community-based tech ecosystem that’s preparing the next generation of underrepresented tech leaders with everything from basic computing to virtual reality. 

Olatunde reads two pages from ‘The Life We’re Looking For’ by Andy Crouch. [reading begins at 17:45]  

Hear us discuss: 
“I grew up in an environment where you could believe in the impossible.” [2:13] | What to say ‘yes’ to. [5:43] | How to start betting on your gifts. [8:48] | Dealing with resistance: “Holding onto your principles in moments of resistance is what keeps you grounded.” [12:05] | The notion of being known: “We’re all looking to be known in life.” [22:18] | The power of a shift in mindset. [27:38] | What it takes to reach out and ask for help. [32:36]

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I did a beginner’s class in ceramics earlier this year, and it was a pretty interesting experience to go up against a potter’s wheel and lose. Forget actually trying to create a pot, I found it nearly impossible just to get the lump of clay centered on the wheel. I did end up with a few lumpy, bumpy things to glaze - and glazing is its own adventure where you never really know how your project will turn out since every firing in the kiln is different. Do your best, create blindly, have your creation tempered by forces beyond your control, and end up with something unexpectedly gorgeous. Gosh, it’s a bit like life, really.  

Susan Collett is someone I’ve shared a glass of wine with more than once on my balcony, as she lives just around the corner from me in Toronto. She also happens to be one of the pre-eminent artists who works in clay sculpture and printmaking, something she’s been doing successfully for 30 years. 

Susan reads two pages from ‘The Creative Habit’ by Twyla Tharp. [reading begins at 14:15]  

Hear us discuss: 
What art does for the artist, and for the world: “Something good always comes forward out of chaos, difficulty, and struggle, and I want to remind people of their strength amidst fragile times.” [6:32] | How to engage with art. [8:52] | Planning helps the wheel go ‘round. [17:59] | Working through the doldrums as a creator. [20:01] | Our inner critics: “Just because you think it, doesn’t mean it’s real.” [21:52] | The importance of drawing. [25:55] | The next project: “Within one piece there are ten other pieces.” [27:31] | “The clay, itself, teaches you to let go into the materials.” [30:01] | How to find your audience. [33:49]

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I often get asked how I sold more than a million copies of The Coaching Habit. I wish I had one, but, of course, there is no singular answer - just a combination of things going well and a healthy dose of magic fairy dust. One thing we got right, though, is the design of the book itself. So many books feel heavy - a wall of text - and I wanted a book that felt lighter, accessible, and non-intimidating. In whatever you’re working on, what experience are you creating? 

Stefan Butcher is an acclaimed graphic designer and illustrator who likes designing books, and questions. When I found him through his wonderful book, 344 Questions: The Creative Person’s Do-It-Yourself Guide to Insight, Survival, and Artistic Fulfillment, I already knew we would get along. Get‌ ‌book‌ ‌links‌ ‌and‌ ‌resources‌ ‌at‌ https://www.mbs.works/2-pages-podcast/  

Stefan reads two pages from ‘The Salmon of Doubt’ by Douglas Adams. [reading begins at 19:35]  

Hear us discuss: 
Disrupting the status quo: “I’m weird … but I’m not a threat to anybody, I’m just trying to make my thing happen and help others do the same.” [9:23] | Performative competence versus embodied competence. [13:29] | How to keep your heart open: “It’s not the pain that kills you, it’s the numbness.” [24:22] | The difficult choice of what to work on. [28:40] | The essence of collaboration: “We are each other’s keeper.” [33:31]