A More Perfect Fellowship: Faith, Democracy and Difficult Conversations

Joel Allen
A More Perfect Fellowship: Faith, Democracy and Difficult Conversations

**A More Perfect Fellowship** is a podcast that explores the crossroads of faith, patriotism, democracy and difficult conversations. In an era when churches have too often become polarizing forces of extremism, this podcast challenges and resources church leaders to serve communities for civic renewal. Host Joel Allen examines how worshiping communities can overcome incivility and build social capital that underlies democratic norms. The McGovern Center, housed at Dakota Wesleyan University, works to extend the legacy of George and Eleanor McGovern, its most prominent alumni.

  1. JUN 17

    MPF: In the Moment with Lori Walsh

    I had the privilege to be interviewed on the SDPB show "In the Moment" with Lori Walsh. In a free wheeling conversation, we discussed the new prison controversy, the Braver Angels style debate which we're leading, and the new Saint John's Bible on our campus (topic of a previous episode with John Ross).

    46 min

  2. MAY 21

    MPF 6 John Ross - The Saint John’s Bible and the Art of Revelation”

    This podcast explores the astounding creation of human genius and perseverance in the Saint John's Bible - the first hand-inscribed, beautifully illustrated/illuminated Benedictine manuscript of the Bible in over 500 years. Some of the title ideas provided by AI are below: “Illuminating the Word: The Saint John’s Bible in a Modern Age”A blend of tradition and innovation in sacred art. “Scripture in Gold and Ink: The Story Behind the Saint John’s Bible”Exploring the sacred craft of the first hand-inscribed Benedictine Bible in 500 years. “Faith, Art, and Ink: The Legacy of the Saint John’s Bible”Where ancient Benedictine tradition meets 21st-century imagery. “Visions of the Word: A Conversation on the Saint John’s Bible”Dr. John Ross on scripture as visual theology. “From Parchment to DNA: The Saint John’s Bible and the Art of Revelation”Exploring how timeless text meets modern imagery. “The Living Word: Art, Tragedy, and Transcendence in the Saint John’s Bible”Including reflections on September 11 and the visual storytelling of sacred scripture. “Inks of Glory: Crafting the Saint John’s Bible”A modern sacred masterpiece 500 years in the making. “Beauty Born of Benedictine Tradition: The Saint John’s Bible”Dr. John Ross on faith, calligraphy, and cultural imagination.

    43 min

  3. MAY 7

    MPF 5 Jonah: Ghosting God (a conversation w/Brandon Vetter)

    Jonah’s journey reminds us that depolarization begins with confronting our own prejudices and learning to embrace God’s inclusive vision. We humans have a natural tendency to curve ourselves in our ourselves. Our sinful nature seems to provide us with a permission structure to not only disagree but to dislike (even despise) those with whom we disagree. Disagreement becomes disagreeableness which devolves into contempt. It is painfully difficult to meaningfully converse with someone who is alien to our opinions and perspectives. It is this ‘us vs. them” dichotomy that we find in Jonah as we find and must eliminate within ourselves.In the end, Jonah’s silence in response to God’s question is profound. He does not answer because the answer is obvious: God’s love calls us beyond our ethnic grievances and into a larger story of mercy and grace for all people. The book of Jonah calls its readers to share in this expansive vision, to love even those whom we have every reason to hate, because God’s love is not bound by human prejudices.Ultimately, the Book of Jonah challenges its readers to reconsider their own biases and limitations. Jonah’s journey is not merely about a prophet’s reluctance to obey; it is a mirror for Israel—and for all of us—to examine how we treat those we consider enemies. God’s Braver message is clear: love and compassion are not confined to one nation or one group of people. Jonah’s anger with God’s mercy reveals how difficult it can be for humans to embrace this divine vision of love. Yet, God’s final reminder to Jonah concerns those who are ignorant - they especially stand in need of divine forgiveness and compassion. His care and compassion extend to all, even those we might fiercely dislike.

    26 min

  4. APR 1

    MPF4 David Brubaker - When the Center Does Not Hold

    An interview with David R. Brubaker about his new book, "When the Center does not Hold" (Fortress). Over the past forty years, congregations, businesses, other organizations, and communities across the United States have become increasingly divided along political and ideological lines. In When the Center Does Not Hold, David R. Brubaker, with contributions by colleagues Everett Brubaker, Carolyn Yoder, and Teresa J. Haase, offers relevant, practical mentorship on navigating polarized environments. Through easily accessible stories, they provide tools and processes that will equip leaders to both manage themselves and effectively lead others in highly polarized and anxious systems. Coaching includes guidance on key characteristics of effective leadership in times of polarization: refusing contempt, honoring dignity, broadening binaries, seeking first to understand, inviting disagreement, and staying connected. With years of combined experience in the fields of conflict transformation and organizational and leadership studies, Brubaker and his colleagues offer hope. Here, readers learn from leaders and communities that continue to renew the covenants that bind them, courageously address deeper needs that drive conflict, and hold on to a moral center while navigating the storms of polarization.

    37 min

  5. MAR 7

    MPF 4 - Grace for Nineveh, the Fury of Jonah: The Irony of the Prophet

    **A More Perfect Fellowship** is a podcast that explores the crossroads of faith, patriotism, democracy and difficult conversations. In an era when churches have too often become polarizing forces of extremism, this podcast challenges and resources church leaders to serve communities for civic renewal. Host Joel Allen examines how worshiping communities can overcome incivility and build social capital that underlies democratic norms. The McGovern Center, housed at Dakota Wesleyan University, works to extend the legacy of George and Eleanor McGovern, its most prominent alumni. This podcast discusses Jonah's anger at God for his compassion on the people of Nineveh.

    22 min

  6. FEB 19

    MPF 3:3 Jonah's Message of Doom or Mercy?

    A More Perfect Fellowship: Faith, Democracy, and Difficult Conversations Host: Joel Allen with DWU student Ian Chrisler Welcome to A More Perfect Fellowship: Faith, Democracy, and Difficult Conversations, where we explore how scripture speaks to our most pressing challenges—especially the challenge of engaging with those we might rather avoid. Today, we continue our journey through the book of Jonah. Jonah’s story is often remembered for the great fish, but his real struggle isn’t with the sea—it’s with God’s mercy. In chapters 2 and 3, we follow Jonah from the depths of the fish’s belly, where he prays a desperate but self-focused prayer, to the streets of Nineveh, where he delivers the briefest—and perhaps least heartfelt—prophetic message in scripture: 'In 40 days, Nineveh will be overturned.' But here’s where things get interesting. When God calls Jonah a second time, the focus shifts. The city’s wickedness is no longer the emphasis. Instead, we hear something new—Nineveh is called a great city to God. The Hebrew phrase leElohim hints at something profound: Yahweh sees Nineveh not just as a foreign capital, but as a city of deep significance, perhaps even parallel to Jerusalem. Yet Jonah remains unmoved. His message contains no call to repentance, no hint of grace—only doom. So what’s really happening here? Is Jonah proclaiming judgment, or is there an implicit offer of grace hidden in his words? And what does his resistance reveal about our own reluctance to see value in those we view as outsiders—or even enemies? Join me as we unpack these chapters and wrestle with what they mean for us today.

    29 min

  7. FEB 19

    MPF 3:2 Exploring Jonah 1: A Prophet On the Run

    A More Perfect Fellowship: Faith, Democracy, and Difficult Conversations Host: Joel Allen (with Ian Chrisler)Welcome to A More Perfect Fellowship: Faith, Democracy, and Difficult Conversations, where we explore how faith communities can bridge divides, foster meaningful dialogue, and cultivate a spirit of reconciliation in a polarized world. I’m Joel Allen and I’m glad you’re here. Today, we turn to the story of Jonah—one of the Bible’s most compelling narratives about resistance, reluctance, and, ultimately, God’s radical love for the ‘other.’ We often think of Jonah as the prophet who was swallowed by a great fish, but his story is really about something deeper: the human tendency to run from difficult conversations, to avoid engaging with those we dislike—or even despise. Jonah was sent to Nineveh, a city he hated, with a message of mercy. In contrast, the prophet Nahum later delivered a message of destruction for the same city. Their stories reveal two very different attitudes toward those we consider enemies. What does Jonah’s reluctance—and God’s persistence—teach us about our own resistance to engaging with those on the other side of our social and political divides? In this episode, we’ll unpack the first chapter of Jonah, his flight from God’s call, and what it means for us today as people of faith seeking to foster civil dialogue in a fractured world. Let’s dive in.

    28 min

  8. FEB 14

    3.1 The Church and Civic Renewal

    In a time of deep division, this podcast explores how communities of faith can become catalysts for civic renewal and social connectedness. Through compelling conversations and real-world examples, we challenge religious leaders to see building social capital not just as a civic duty, but as a vital part of their spiritual calling. Join us as we uncover how faith can bridge divides and strengthen the fabric of our communities.

    28 min
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Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
2 Ratings

About

**A More Perfect Fellowship** is a podcast that explores the crossroads of faith, patriotism, democracy and difficult conversations. In an era when churches have too often become polarizing forces of extremism, this podcast challenges and resources church leaders to serve communities for civic renewal. Host Joel Allen examines how worshiping communities can overcome incivility and build social capital that underlies democratic norms. The McGovern Center, housed at Dakota Wesleyan University, works to extend the legacy of George and Eleanor McGovern, its most prominent alumni.

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