In this epic episode Steve reconnects with former VMware colleague, Paul Chapman, to discuss the role that innovation played during VMware's rapid growth years. We take a look at Paul's illustrious career in IT leadership positions including his current role as the CIO at Cisco. We also revisit Nicholas Carr's question: Does IT Matter? and explore Paul's advice for healthy CIO-CISO relationships. During this episode, Paul reminds listeners that change is the only constant in business, and encourages us not to fall in love with technology. Finally, we discuss Paul's most provocative advice of all: technology is an implementation detail and innovative leaders are responsible for curating customer experiences.