The Modern Recruiter Robin Choy

Hey everyone,
With the job market changing so rapidly over the past few years, I try to keep up. That means lots of chats with folks from various sectors. One person I've been talking with is Josh, the CEO at Hired.com. Josh has access to tons of proprietary data because Hired has been at it for a decade, generating 3 million interviews and helping 30,000 people find jobs. During one of our conversations, Josh brought up their latest report, "The Future of Tech Hiring: 8 Bold Predictions for 2024" based on a survey of 250 companies and 1,000 job seekers. We dived deep into it.
We figured, why not share this conversation with you all? I'm sure many of you would appreciate a closer look at Hired's data, whether you're searching for new opportunities or just curious about the future of the tech industry.
So, we decided to record a new conversation and dive into what's happening in tech hiring, backed by all that data Hired.com has. Here's what we covered:
A Shift Back Towards an Employer-Driven Market
The past 18 months have been a rollercoaster, marked by hiring freezes, layoffs, and uncertainty. The dynamics between employers and candidates are always shifting, and it seems we're indeed moving back towards an employer-driven market, something many of us have felt.
Yet, Josh advises, "Companies need to be really transparent and admit where things did not go as well as they should have gone," especially regarding layoffs and rehiring.
AI's Impact on Junior Tech Talent
One key trend is the pivot towards mid-senior level talent, reducing junior roles' availability. This shift is partly due to AI's growing influence, automating tasks once reserved for entry-level positions. However, Josh notes, "There's always more jobs that get created because of these technological advances than there are the jobs that do get lost."
Pulling Back from Fully Remote
The remote work landscape is also changing. What was once a necessity has now become a choice, with companies gradually retracting their fully remote positions. "During the peak of post-pandemic hiring, 70% of roles were open to remote. Now, that's dropped to below 50%," observes Josh.
A Changing Focus on DE&I
Although the active pursuit of diversity and inclusion goals may have seen a dip, the actual hiring of underrepresented talent hasn't declined. This hints at a more organic integration of DE&I principles into hiring practices.
And so much more…
As we navigate 2024, it's evident that agility, continuous learning, and openness to remote opportunities will be key for successful job seekers and recruiters. AI continues to transform the landscape, bringing new roles and challenges. We discussed all this and more, yet the outlook for 2024 remains uncertain!
What's your take on this discussion? What are your predictions? Just hit reply and let's chat!
Robin


This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit themodernrecruiter.substack.com

Hey everyone!
Just wrapped up an amazing chat with Melissa Grabiner about something we all care about: how to get a better job. We talked about strategies to implement during the job search of course, but also before. We hope this will help some of you as listeners, but also your friends, family. Even if you’re not looking for a job right now, and if you probably know everything about recruiting (as you should if you’re interested in this podcast), we’re confident you’ll learn a few nuggets.
Melissa is a pro when it comes to job-seeking advice, and she’s built an audience on that topic of an impressive 266,000 followers on LinkedIn. That's 10X myself! She's been in talent acquisition and HR for 14 years, and she has more recently taken LinkedIn to share tips for job seekers. There's a lot of BS advice on job search out there - Melissa is legit.
Seriously, this episode's a keeper. Here's the summary on what we dived into:
1/ Melissa's Backstory
Melissa's been in the HR and talent game for years, making big moves and helping companies hire by the thousands. She's seen it all, from big pharma to biotech startups. And now, she's using her voice to help job seekers navigate the tricky waters of finding work, especially in a tough market like 2024.
2/ Job Hunting Like a Pro
We talked about everything from making sure your LinkedIn and resume are spot-on to navigating the often confusing advice out there. Melissa shared her top strategies for not just finding any job, but landing one that really fits what you're looking for. We also discussed how the best time to prepare is BEFORE actually looking for a job.
3/ Optimizing Your LinkedIn Profile
First impressions count, especially online. Melissa walked us through how to make your LinkedIn profile pop, from a professional photo to crafting a headline that tells a story beyond just your job title.
4/ Networking That Works
Melissa stressed the importance of networking, not just as a way to find opportunities but as a two-way street. It's about building relationships, giving as much as you take, and leveraging those connections for mutual benefit. I really liked that part and this reminded me of a book that I often quote (Give and Take by Adam Grant).
5/ Working With Recruiters and Agencies
Recruiters can be a big help, but of course, they're working for the companies, not for you. Melissa gave us a few tips on how to make these relationships work to your advantage, and how to avoid putting all your eggs in one basket.
Wherever you are, we’re sending you good vibes and strength for your job search, and really hope that this discussion will be helpful!
What do you think? Just hit reply and let's get the conversation going!
Wishing you a week full of opportunities,
– Robin Choy


This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit themodernrecruiter.substack.com

Hey everybody!
In a special episode that I've been teasing for a bit, Jon and I unpack the art and science of pricing for agencies and recruiters. Even if you're not from an agency, you'll want to hear this. We cover how to show your worth, focus on what really matters, and get recognized by your clients/hiring managers. This is gold whether you're on the inside or with an agency.
So, why Jon specifically? Well, he's probably the best expert on the topic of pricing + recruiting. After 8 years at REED (a top UK agency pulling in £1.2 billion a year), and setting up pricing strategies, he started his own company, The Value Advantage, to help recruiting firms nail their pricing.
He's also behind the great Substack newsletter Added Value where he shares tips, landing page analysis etc. - I would recommend everyone to subscribe now. By the way - I said in the episode that it was paid, but there's also a free tier. So subscribe :)
Honestly, this is one of my top episodes ever. I’ll keep recommending it for many years!
Here's what we discussed:
1/ Why we struggle with pricing innovation and a few models we can use
We went far beyond the typical dialogue around percentages and guarantee periods (though we talked about them). Jon shared the "Good, Better, Best" way to think about pricing. This means giving clients choices that fit what they need. It makes clients happier and makes sure you get paid right for what you do. Easier said than done, so we then discussed very practical way to implement this strategy.
2/ How we should think about Value Beyond Fees
Our chat went beyond just how much to charge, and tried to answer the billion dollar questions: how to communicate the value recruiters bring to the table? Jon shared a few quotes for famous entrepreneurs, and techniques to better show the value created.
3/ Practical Takeaways
From understanding what clients truly value to adjusting service offerings accordingly, Jon shared a lot of actionable insights on how recruiters can differentiate their services and justify their fees & salaries.
What do you think? Been thinking about how to show your value or set the right prices? I'd love to hear how you're applying these ideas. Just hit reply and let's talk!
Wishing you a very valuable week,
Robin Choy


This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit themodernrecruiter.substack.com

Hey everybody!
Robin here, and I'm back with another episode of The Modern Recruiter, diving deep into my latest obsession: the inner workings of recruitment agencies. This week, I had an awesome chat with Samuli, the brains behind TalentBee, a Europe-based, fully distributed recruiting agency created in August 2022, that's now booking ~70K€ of revenue per month. Not bad after 1.5 years! (and to have a comparable for the US, you can probably ~double those numbers)
We did a bit of a podcast exchange — first, I jumped onto Samuli's show, TalentBuzz here on Spotify), where I shared all my secrets on getting candidates to actually reply to you, amassed after 8 years of working on candidate engagement and recruiting CRMs. If you follow me on LinkedIn and like what I usually say, you're gonna love this episode. Remember to leave a good Spotify review on Samuli's podcast if you enjoy it!
Then we flipped the roles, and I got to grill Samuli on The Modern Recruiter. He didn't hold back, sharing the good and bad of his TalentBee adventure, complete with the cold, hard numbers. And let me tell you, he was super, super transparent about it all.
What grabbed my attention:
1/ How Samuli applied sales best practices to recruiting
You know I can't resist comparing sales/marketing with recruiting.
Samuli's got a background in sales and marketing, not your typical recruiter backstory, so he wouldn't disagree. What's his secret sauce and how did he apply all his previous learnings? He puts a heavy emphasis on branding and engaging candidates in unique ways — he will for instance share videos of the engineering team describing the role they're hiring for.
He also walked us through the playbook he used to get his initial clients.
2/ How TalentBee thinks about productivity
Because TalentBee is fully distributed, they absolutely have to think about productivity. We talked about hours worked, time-audit (one of my favorite productivity techniques), revenue multiples, transparency about business operations, including profitability and employee contributions, etc.
3/ How they managed to build recurring revenue
That's the Holy Grail for a lot of agencies - yet very few manage to build true recurring revenue. Most recruiting operations are transactional by nature, which is why TalentBee's approach to locking in 70% of their revenue through recurring streams really intrigued me.
It led us down a rabbit hole of pricing strategies, delivering value, and all that good stuff we'll dive deeper into with Jon Brooks in a soon-to-come episode (promise, it's worth the wait!).
So, what do you think? I’d love to hear your take on TalentBee's journey and the insights shared by Samuli. Just hit reply and let’s chat!
Wishing you an inspiring week ahead,
– Robin Choy


This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit themodernrecruiter.substack.com

Hey there Modern Recruiters!
I’m back episode of The Modern Recruiter. Same as with Chris (from last week - listen to it now if you haven't already!), I connected with Bryan after my LinkedIn post to ask for guests recommendations. I was looking for agency recruiters/founders willing to go all-in with the transparency and share everything that's happening behind the scenes.
Bryan accepted to share his journey that took him from agency (TEKSystems), to tech companies (Google, Apple, Uber, Boosted), to a finance company (Volean), to one of the best venture capital firms in the world (Sequoia Capital) to know launching Narwhal Search, a unique recruiting collective/agency. What a ride!
We dove deep into his ongoing journey of building a $5M business, and it’s a story filled with insights, challenges, and learnings!
Here's what was interesting to me in that conversation:
1/ Bryan's approach to Building a Different Kind of Recruiting Agency
Narwhal Search functions more like a collective than a traditional agency. Recruiters have the freedom to work on any of the roles, and they can also bring in clients themselves.  
That's something I hear a lot for early stage agencies, and Bryan does a great job of explaining how he managed to do it. Collectives are an easy and natural way to get started.
2/ How Bryan made the jump into entrepreneurship
Bryan's extensive experience, especially at Sequoia, led him to meet a lot of early stage founders. He realized that many of them, especially in early-stage startups, struggled with the same question: “How do we hire engineers?”, and he couldn't help them all while at Sequoia.
Launching his own dedicated business seemed a natural progression. That's a theme that I hear again and again: most agency founders start by doing more of what they already do, for clients they already know. Now Sequoia did intro him to some clients, but most of his early clients were from his network, friends, people he worked with in the past.
It's also Bryan’s advice to his younger self: "Keep throwing myself into the fire. You learn to ride the wave or dance in the rain".
3/ His efficient Growth Story
Bryan’s journey wasn’t a walk in the park. Starting from scratch in June 2022, Narwhal Search has now reached a stage where they are eyeing $5 million in revenue in the next year. How?
1/ Efficiency and priorisation: "being more efficient in how we're running our business" and "making sure we're spending our time with the right clients and customers."
Funnily enough, Bryan's first submittal to a client resulted in his first placement - a good proof of his efficiency!
2/ Automation and AI: "If we don't automate as much as we can, we're gonna get left behind".
I like how Bryan thinks about the future and the impact of technology in the recruiting process - when he asks himself things like “How is my child gonna find opportunity?”

By the way - I wonder if people really read all these long summaries or if they just go to the podcast episode. If you did read until here - please hit reply and let me know! And if nobody replies, maybe it's time I rethink the format :)
Until next time!
Robin
PS: During our conversation we mentioned Jose Guardado AGAIN, so remember to listen to our discussion together: The Modern Recruiter #63: A masterclass to improve your candidates closing rates, Jose Guardado, Partner @Riviera Partner.


This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit themodernrecruiter.substack.com

Happy 2024, everyone!
Time's flown by since we launched this newsletter in January 2023, and now we're nearing 800 subscribers – huge thanks for that! It's been a ride, and I can't wait to see where we go this year! I'm also getting more direct email replies to these newsletters with your topic ideas, suggestions for improvement, or just to say hi. Love it! Keep them coming. Go ahead, hit reply now! :)
Alright, so - about a month ago I wrote a LinkedIn post to ask for guests recommendations. I was looking for agency recruiters/founders willing to go all-in with the transparency and share everything that's happening behind the scene.
Well, Chris Relth from Artemis reached out, and boy, did he deliver! Whether you work in an agency, as a contractor or in-house, you’ll love that discussion. We reached unprecedented levels of transparency, and I learned a ton.
Here's what we covered:
1/ The benefits of transparency.
Chris did something extraordinary – he opened up the Artemis playbook for us. It's rare in a recruiting industry that's usually very secretive. He shared, “I'm all about transparency. I think it helps everyone when we're open about how things work.” This episode is a goldmine for anyone curious about the behind-the-scenes of a successful recruiting agency.
2/ The metrics that matter, and examples from Artemis
Chris didn't hold back on the numbers either. We delved into the details of call ratios, submission rates, the entire candidate pipeline. We also discussed client acquisition metrics: how to think about outbound and word of mouth, how to build a better brand. Chris also discussed how he thinks about cost-per-desk (all blended costs including salary, back-office etc.) and how much revenue each person should be bringing in (120-150% of cost per desk during the first year, 200-400% after that).
3/ Why Artemis opted for quality over quantity, and why they believe it's the best decision
Central to Chris's philosophy is a focus on relationships over transactions. He stressed the importance of connection, saying, “It's all about relationships... I'd rather have 10 people doing a million dollars a piece than 20 people doing 500.” This approach not only speaks to the quality of work but also to the sustainable, long-term success of Artemis.
This episode is more than just an interview; it's a masterclass in the mechanics of agency recruiting!
So, what do you think about Chris's approach and his transparent sharing of Artemis's metrics? Did you see the same numbers yourselves? Is this as useful and interesting to you as it was to me? I'm eager to hear your thoughts. Just hit reply and let's chat!
Robin Choy
PS: During our conversation we mentioned a previous episode: The Modern Recruiter #63: A masterclass to improve your candidates closing rates, Jose Guardado, Partner @Riviera Partner.


This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit themodernrecruiter.substack.com