As Temperatures Rise is a learning lab for exploring the edges of being human in this time of complexity, uncertainty, and changing tides. No topic is out of bounds with regard to our emerging and possible futures in this time of breakdown and breakthrough. Deep wisdom is needed in these times – to match the power of the gods we are now wielding like teenagers. The purpose of the podcast is to help humanity wayfind and close that gap.
EP.12 Live Session#1 with Joe Brewer
This episode is from our first live session with Joe Brewer, the ED of the Center for Applied Cultural Evolution and a deep systems thinker, complexity researcher and pioneer in designing bioregional pathways to earth regeneration.
Music is “In Passage" by Blue Dot Sessions
Learn more about Joe’s work: https://medium.com/@joe_brewer
Regenerative Economics in Real Life webinar with Joe:
About the podcast: https://www.astemperaturesrise.com/
Support the podcast: https://www.patreon.com/m/astemperaturesrise
* Money & Life documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3szcNsbeSc
* Planetary collapse and why decades of systems change work has not effected deep systems change
* Peter Berg, advocate for bioregionalism
* Difficult to know overall carrying capacity
* Definition of a bioregion = the region of an organisms biological existence which is different from organism to organism because of social behavior
* For humans that is/was usually the extent of a trade network
* Cultural geography, technical geography and ecological context that is shared = bioregion
* What is the living economy of locales? The carrying capacity of the local living
* Dana Meadow’s 1983 essay A Brief History of the Balaton Group: https://www.thesolutionsjournal.com/article/from-sustainability-science-to-real-world-action-a-short-history-of-the-balaton-group/
* "The pathway" for sustainability is local living economies
* Joe’s work is an update on what has been known
* History of management systems = double entry accounting that gave rise to the corporation
* Invention of railroads needed a centralized time management system to coordinate at larger (national) scale
* Organizing around time allowed scaling of the global economy (between 1850-1950)
* Since 1950 the complexity of reality has outpaced the capacity of the older management systems/paradigms and nation states have become increasingly ineffective as solving problems
* Nation states are falling away and will fall away because of this
* Network systems bypass nation states since the Internet since around 1980
* Is humanity growing up? Yes and no...
* Ecological Resilience = about interdependent relationships achieving feedbacks for self-regulation or autopoeisis for the collective
* We select cultural patterns that bring about this resilience or we don’t!
* The current information-communications system is not regenerative (huge energy hog and based on fossil fuels) and will fail
* Mesh networks that emerged during Hurricane Sandy: https://www.govtech.com/public-safety/Mesh-Networks-Keep-Residents-Connected-Outages.html
* Conservation management frameworks as a pathway to bioregional economies
* Global system is a cancer killing the bioregional systems
* Community land trusts to protect against the cancer by removing them from speculative markets
* Cultural trauma and grief to be able to do the bioregional work to be able to trust and cooperate
* The need for body-based practices e.g. capoeira
* To become a perception system for the land and elements
* Where to live and how to die
EP. 11 Vanessa Andreotti (Part 1): The World as a Living Metabolism
Vanessa Andreotti is an Educational studies Professor and researcher on Race, Inequalities and Global Change at the University of British Columbia. Her work focuses on the limits of the modern/colonial story of development and human evolution and the adjacent possibilities of setting our horizons beyond what we can imagine within modern institutions and ways of knowing and being.
Music is “Turning" by Blue Dot Sessions
Learn more about Vanessa’s work: https://decolonialfutures.net/
About the podcast: https://www.astemperaturesrise.com/
Support the podcast: https://www.patreon.com/m/astemperaturesrise
* We open with acknowledgments — land, technology, ancestors and the other than human
* Vanessa’s upcoming book: Hospicing Modernity
* “wording the world” vs. “worlding the world"
* language as a living entity — language moves things
* the world as a living metabolism = everything in movement and exchanging energies
* we have what we need to face the storm that is coming together if we can co-exist differently with the storm itself and be in a different way with the metabolism that is sick
* attuning to the bio-intelligence that keeps the metabolism functional for the healing of our thinking, of our feeling,cc of our relations, of the cycles of life and death
* modernity creates deficiencies in ways that deactivate capacities and rhythms (that are still there we just need to reactivate)
* our metabolism is part of a larger metabolism, the planet
* “allow the thing to thing through us"
* modernity’s ladder of mobility
* ladder of social mobility that stands on the broken backs of piling bodies of other human and non-human beings.
* "these benefits and the social mobility he sought were only made possible by the structural injustices he was trying to fight against”
* modernity creates a separation between us and the metabolism — when that separation occurs, our intrinsic value is taken from us and thus we enter cycles of trying to produce a sense of value in modernity’s economies in order to feel we are worth being alive!
* hard to criticize the ladder because it’s a compensation for something else much more profound
* creates the hamster wheel based on an affective foundation
* we are fighting over the throne when the whole palace is falling apart
* offering palliative care while we disinvest from the pleasures and so-called securities that we have enjoyed
* “modernity is delicious if you don’t know where it comes from…"
* we need to hit rock bottom
* The Bus Within Us Methodology: https://youtu.be/SyeoaVbp-ys
* if you can’t hold space for your own inner complexity, we won’t be able to hold complexity outside ourselves
* humor without complexity can be easily weaponized
* looking at what’s not beautiful and not turning the gaze, but not feeling worthless
* the moment we can see ourselves as cute and pathetic is the moment we can sit with everything and we’re ready to compost our shit
* the need to zoom out and see ourselves with humor, disassociating with our self image = the problem of self-worthlessness is gone and NOT because you have been validated
* indigenous psychoanalysis
* decluttering the affective landmines
* the difference between the call for accountability and the call for responsibility
* accountability is what are you doing with the energy from the cost of your existence = who are you indebted to?
* responsibility is knowing your medicine and when to use it
* elders are not elders for the things they’ve done right but for the things they’ve done wrong and helped us learn from their wrong doing
* the use of metaphor bypasses the defenses of the ego that have been colonized already and weaponized
* fixed form is the problem
* the need for gradual disillusionment that allows us to stay in the unknowability
* hospicing is not just the glamorous part but its a
Ep.10 Sophy Banks: Exploring What Makes a Healthy Culture
This episode is with Sophy Banks. Her eclectic background has included being a therapist, family constellator, radical footballer, environmental activist, engineer, computer trainer, and more. She was on the ground with Transition Town Totnes, the birth place of the global Transition Movement. Sophy’s keen interest and commitment to creating healthy human culture at all scaleshas underpinned all her work and what we explore here in this episode.
Sophy Banks: https://grieftending.org/
Music is “Vibrancy" by Ketsa
* orienting question: why do humans create systems that create so much suffering and nobody does anything about it?
* not responding to the signals of pain and suffering
* power inequality and inequality in suffering
* the Transition Movement
* endemic nature of burnout = burning the planet
* what is it that organizes healthy culture to be life sustaining?
* grief tending and how do we re-create a form of circle where we can hold one another in our grief
* grief gives us insight into what’s wrong in our world
* conflict between inner transition vs. outer transition
* archetypes of doing and being
* balance of opposites: health is when these are in balance =
* yin and yang = Chinese medicine
* fire and water = Sobonfu Some
* love and will = Psychosynthesis
* sympathetic and parasympathetic systems = organizing systems
* what if a healthy culture is one supports a healthy flow between action and rest, between outward and inward movement?
* the medicine wheel = cycles of nature
* ground state of rituals and practices that support a healthy balance between action and rest
* Stephen Porges Polyvagul theory
* the return pathway + social technology for helping us come back to relaxed flow
* when that return pathway is not there
* double injury of the difficult experience + not having the support around to help us come back in a good way
* a whole people can go through mass trauma and these pathways are wiped out
* the inner world of a culture that’s been organized by trauma
* we lose a trust in life
* what do we do with pain in our culture?
* systems of oppression:
* those more identified with fight-flight tend to run things in our world because they have the energy to do so
* there the part of the system being run by trauma and part being run by health
* “The line between good and evil runs through every human heart.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
* George Lakoff on frames and metaphors
* Riane Eisler on partnership vs. dominator cultures
* Starhawk on good reality vs. bad reality
* What we put at the center matters and why our efforts at systems change fail
* Molly Scott Cato - our purpose should be to provide meaningful and dignified lives for everyone in the community
* No time for grief = it’s not normal to take time
* privilege gives us the illusion/possibility of avoiding the pain through comfort
* the false construct of privilege
* "those who most need to do the work are the ones least resourced and equipped to do it and have the most possibility to go on avoiding it"
* we are wired to support each other = the possibility for reconnection is always inside us
* attachment theory getting backed by neuroscience
* "primarily we are our attachments"
* Maslow’s view to put the needs as a hierarchy is a traumatized view
* the landscape of inequality
* the need to titrate, to be resourced = wisdom of touch it and come back
* when it’s wise to not go to the trauma and grief
* putting the relationship at the center
* letting the pain of the truth transform us so we won’t let it happen again
* Bert Hellinger - guilt is not an absolute moral compass but it depends on the moral compass of the group to which we belong
* even in perfect society there will still be loss, there would still be gr
EP.9 Bayo Akolomafe: Monsters, Fugitivity and Sitting in the Lostness of Things
This episode is with Bayo Akomolafe author of These Wilds Beyond our Fences: Letters to my Daughter on Humanity’s Search for Home’ and Executive Director and Chief Curator for The Emergence Network (A Post-Activist Project]. Bayo is also host of the online writing course, ‘We will dance with Mountains: Writing as a Tool for Emergence’. And in this session Bayo takes us into the shapeshifting territory of monstrosity, glitches and fugitively.
Music is “Starlight” by Chad Crouch
* we start with a blessing
* The notion of the monster and the human
* the human is invoked when a pandemic strikes
* archetypal lens
* “withnessing” the transgressions of the monster
* the way we respond to the crisis is part of the crisis
* Stacy Alaimo: "forward movement is longer possible in the Anthropocene"
* only awkward movement is possible
* it’s time for descent and losing our way generously
* sci-fi vision of climate change fully escalated such that we find ourselves at the edge of the ocean
* shapeshifting — a new kind of form is required to be alive in these times
* maybe we need new gods
* James Hillman
* we need a story that allows us to shapeshift
* there is a place for fugitive departures
* our skins are transcorpreal transactions
* defraction and a micro-politics of inquiry
* making sanctuary together = about shape shifting more than safety
* unschooling/parenting as decolonial politics and breathing underwater
* we are shaping each other
* “I need the playful defraction on your vision"
* Meeting the Universe Halfway
* we need the children to baptize us into the next
* Manish Jain and unschooling
* the pandemic helping parents to see their kids perhaps for the first time
* stay with the trouble of our kids
* those that come after us have things to teach us from a future that has already happened
* Yaruba, West African
* the psyche is not in the mind but the mind is in the psyche
* the world calls on us to be defeated again and again — calling on Rilke
* healing as recovery is vexed with tensions
* The goddess Akhilandeshvari — one who is never not broken
* Yaruba ritual that when the ground is unstable, the thing to do is be still = stay with the trouble
* being still before the elder the Coronavirus
* archetypes are still alive, we are co-creating with them
* the Abrahamic god may not know what to do with upheaval
* we need Pan, Ishu and Dionysus when we are fugitive — the gods of becoming
* going into the wilds
* exteriorizing the danger — the danger is not down the street but we are the products of danger, stars crashing into stars
* the invitation is to touch our own bodies and touch the alienness and monstrosity of ourselves as a way to wiser politics and education
* total man concept — trying to design the perfect man
* sitting in the lostness of things
* fear of the normal, being trapped in the normal = the normal as oppressive
* staying in the blackhole of the pandemic
EP8. Joe Brewer: The Planetary Predicament and Regenerating Earth
Joe Brewer is a true polymath and lover of Earth! He is executive director of the Center for Applied Cultural Evolution and the founder of the Earth Regenerators network, a study group for restoring planetary health and avoiding human extinction. He is the author of The Design Pathway for Regenerating Earth(which will be self-published soon), where he brings together the fields of complexity, Earth Systems, cognitive science, and cultural evolution.
* causes of the planetary predicament — difference between learning and instinct
* evolution of the human brain and technology, especially language
* environmental fitness using technology and building on what came before
* human ability to learn culture that can temporarily disconnect from the nonhuman environment (creating a temporary buffer)
* disconnected in causality in our short term thinking = displaced causality
* if we are to survive this time we will need to spread survival out in space, in time, and in causation
* a future that no one can see but somehow still move toward it = we become the past of some future
* collapse through the metaphor of hospice
* complex sequence of collapses of subsystems of the body
* civilizations as one long term living system, example of COVID and shut down as systems
* collapse is plural
* OPEC oil crisis in 1980
* wealth accumulation is like cancer
* collapse of the US economy has been happening for 40 years
* Confucius “If your plan is for one year plant rice. If your plan is for ten years plant trees. If your plan is for one hundred years educate children. ” and if you’re planning for 1,000 years grow a forest
* Aristotle and teleological thinking
* the original cathedral is forest building
* cultural evolution and design of culture
* population genetics
* cultural traits
* future fitness is our design challenge
* bringing sacred relationships to our environment is an essential ingredient
* cumulative culture = we can build on culture
* cultural scaffolding or developmental scaffolding
* David Sloan Wilson and wise management of cultural evolution
* regeneration is a dynamic pattern
* Humberto Maturana and Francisco Varela
* autopoiesis = self generated self expression
* Janine Benyus and the Biomimicry Institute
* real sustainability is regeneration
* we need to work with living systems
* limits to growth
* Joe and his family decisions to move to Barichara, Colombia
* having a daughter in this time
* what do children need in this time?
* our daughter is learning that what normal people do is bring rivers back to life and grow forests
* Earth Regenerators Network
* regenerating at the bioregional level
* local living economies
* 97% of our history we lived in small hunter-gatherer tribes evolving with nature
* should we humans be here or not?
* there is no singular human culture
* we (humans) get to decide if we stick around!
* without enough complexity and diversity in a food web it will collapse
* loss of too much non human species and humans go away too'
* should there be too many humans or balance and diversity of life?
* “we need to deserve to be here"
* The Kogi and pagamentos
* debt of gratitude to Tierra Madre
* gratitude releases hormones of pleasure
* Paul Cherfuka’s addition to the stages of grief: the gift
* you grieve because you care
* to regenerate land we have to feel what has been destroyed
* an ability to love that has no end
* The true evolutionary adaptation for humans is teamwork
* Your medicine is what you give, it’s your genius
* we are the medicine if we realized we are the Earth loving itself
* how to live in a landscape - to live in a place you love so much you will give your body to it
* where should my body rest?
Support Joe: https://www.patreon.com/joe_brewer
The Earth Regenerators: https://earth-regenerators.mn.co/
Joe on Medium: https://medium.com/@joe_brewer
EP7. Francis Weller: Apprenticing to Grief
After an epic, heart-rending, wildfire ravaged past 10 days in Southern Oregon (and on the entire west coast of the U.S. and in the world). I decided to pull out my interview with Francis Weller from 2 years ago for the documentary RE:MEMBER, as it is more relevant and important than ever and the interview in its entirety has not been publicly shared!
Francis Weller is a psychotherapist, writer and soul activist. He is a master of synthesizing diverse streams of thought from psychology, anthropology, mythology, alchemy, indigenous cultures and poetic traditions. Author of The Wild Edge of Sorrow: Rituals of Renewal and the Sacred Work of Grief. He founded and directs WisdomBridge, an organization that offers educational programs that seek to integrate the wisdom from indigenous cultures with the insights and knowledge gathered from western poetic, psychological and spiritual traditions.
In this episode we talk about:
– Welcoming grief and apprenticing to grief
– Obsession with happiness in our culture
– How grief keeps us current
– Ritual and going deep into the well of grief
– Containment and release and the need for community
– Soulful repetition vs. superficial repetition
– Correlation between the currency of sorrow and currency of joy
– Building communal strength
– Practices that help provide ballast
– Coping doesn’t get us there where soul wants to take us
– The ecology of the sacred — the sanity of knowing trouble will come and the only way through is together
– The San Bushmen
– When one of us is ill, we’re all ill
– A living culture is one that knows what the people require in order for the soul to survive
– Community first vs. me first
– We are devouring our world because of a profound emptiness and at the heart of that is the grief of the loss of living culture
– The broken heart that allows us to feel again
– Ancient memory that remembers how we wept together
– We cannot do this grief work alone
– Right now we are desperate, we can’t pretend it’s not happening
– Amnesia around grief work
– Ancient Scandinavian village practice with people in grief — sleeping in the cinders — living in the ashes
– Grief is holy work — Rilke
– Divine quality to the descent, god of the depths
– Those who stay faithful to the journey of grief, will be our elders
– Blake — emotions as divine influxes
– What does it want from me? How do I serve this?
– Alchemy — make the black blacker than black, move towards the darkness with fidelity
– Suffering will come to you, it’s part of being in the body
– Rough initiation — severing; can’t go back; ending of something; to step into a larger identity
– Everything you love you will lose; to be faithful to that love, you must be faithful to this grief
– Every living culture had ritual at its center to maintain itself
– We moved away from it to intellectualism
– Ritual has the capacity to derange us — part of psyche that speaks in art, beauty, song
– Healing must address the psychological, the sociological, and the cosmological
– Healing repairs what is torn and prepares for what is to come
– Soul activism
– To be re-dreamt
– Ritual comes out of the land
– Victor Turner — “communitas"
Support the podcast here: https://www.patreon.com/astemperaturesrise
More about Francis Weller: www.francisweller.net/
RE:MEMBER where grief and beauty co-exist: www.rememberdoc.com/
As Temperatures Rise website: www.astemperaturesrise.com/
Music is "Time of Sorrow" by Martin Carlberg
Customer ReviewsSee All
inspiring and invitational conversations
So grateful for these inspiring and invitational conversations that bring me to ground when I feel like I might just get lost in the grief and the remorse. Grateful for the authentic and resonant voices here, and for Katie's humility, skill, and love in navigating these conversations.
Silence in the desert of noise…
In rare form, the interviewer allows silence to rest comfortably when it emerges naturally in the conversation, allowing the speaker, interviewer, and listener those precious moments to really take in, consider, and appreciate the inquiry.
This is a time for understanding, not just learning, but learning to listen to one another and let our own realizations mix together in a finer stew of emergent possibilities in these volatile times.
Timely and deep
I am really appreciating the voices and messages coming through this series of interviews. With so much complexity and conflict arising in our world, I feel heartened by with wise and articulate speakers. Grateful to Katie Teague for this labor of love.