Cathy Hackl, Chief Futurist at Journey, on how the metaverse is about to change the way we all do business Women on the Move Podcast

The world’s first Chief Futurist wants us all to embrace the metaverse—even if we don’t call it that. Cathy Hackl, founder and Chief Futurist of Journey, a global design and innovation studio, sits down with Women on the Move Podcast Host Sam Saperstein to talk about how she helps companies and individuals envision and build their virtual brands, and what excites her about merging the physical and virtual worlds.
One thing Cathy advises clients is to “take a step back” from the word metaverse. “I think that word makes some people nervous now,” she tells Sam. “[But] it’s the successor state to today's mobile internet. So if you think about that, what does this mean for you as a company? How are people going to [do business] in the future? How are people going to work in the future? How are people going to socialize in the future?”
Metaverse pioneer
Cathy has a communications and broadcast background, but she started working in virtual technology a decade ago, before people were even talking about the metaverse. She’s worked across a spectrum of metaverse-related industries, from VR to spatial computing and gaming. She’s worked at companies including HTC Vibe, Amazon Web Services, and Walmart. She says one of her favorite experiences came while building Walmart Land inside the social gaming platform Roblox, when she produced a virtual concert called Electric Fest. “I actually got to go to LA work with the artists,” she says. “I helped choreograph a little bit on the motion capture side, worked with them also to select their virtual couture looks. What are they going to wear as avatars? I love the fact that I actually get to get in the trenches.”
At Journey, Cathy and her team work with top brands on their metaverse and Web 3 strategies. “We say that we create real experiences for real people in whichever reality they choose,” she explains. “We do a lot of work in the physical world with physical builds, but we also do a lot of work in the virtual space, and that's my purview, whether it is gaming Roblox or Fortnite or whether it's augmented reality or artificial intelligence.”
Paradigm shift
Acknowledging that exploring Web 3 and the metaverse can feel overwhelming to most of us, Cathy emphasizes that understanding the reality of virtual reality is going to be critical for the business world. “When you go into these virtual spaces and you create these worlds, you have to understand that you can't be brand-led,” she says. “You have to be player-focused. At the end of the day, anyone that’s going into a Roblox, a Fortnite, a rec room, whichever game it is that they're playing, they're going there to have fun . . . and socialize. This is their new social network.” For brands, the key is to make it fun and authentic to the platform: “How do you respect the player? How do you respect the community that’s already built in there?”
For many brands right now, Cathy says, there’s a paradigm shift happening. She compares it to the early 2000s. Back then, she says, “Brands were like, oh, we'll never need a social media presence. And I think that that's kind of where we are right now with some of these virtual spaces and the gaming side of the house.”
One of the biggest differences is the way users interact with virtual spaces versus social media. On social platforms, Cathy notes, customers are able to make comments but not fully engage. “With [virtual] worlds, you're engaging in a totally different game,” she says. “For brands, it's been a bit of a wake-up call. I'm thrilled to have a front-row seat to helping them understand these gaming spaces and the culture, the economies of scale that are happening in these virtual spaces.”
The future for a futurist
One of Cathy’s latest adventures has been launching her own luxury tech label, First Luxe. She describes it as part label, part lab, and focused on disrupting both luxury and fashion. The first collection included 18