Centering: The Asian American Christian Podcast

Centered: Resources for the Asian American Church

Centering is the Asian American Christian Podcast: conversations on Christ, the Christian life, and Asian American perspectives. Through our podcast seasons, as well as specially presented content, we dive into the reality and beauty of living out Asian American Christian faith. Centering is a production of the Center for Asian American Theology and Ministry at Fuller Theological Seminary.

  1. Centering 10x10 - Peace & Forgiveness... For God's Glory

    FEB 10

    Centering 10x10 - Peace & Forgiveness... For God's Glory

    Peace and Forgiveness…For God’s Glory In the final episode of the season, Yulee and Daniel share personal reflections on their healing journeys and emphasize the necessity of having support systems, practicing discernment, and engaging in healthy spiritual leadership that aligns with the gospel of grace. They also touch upon the 'whisper network,' the importance of fruit of the spirit, and practical ways to foster accountability and challenge toxic behaviors in ministry. 00:00 Introduction to Toxic Ministry 00:47 Personal Reflections and Listener Feedback 05:22 The Importance of Embracing Humanity 06:47 Evaluating Leadership and Power Dynamics 12:22 The Halo Effect and Leadership Pitfalls 20:19 DARVO and Toxic Leadership Responses 28:35 Receiving Feedback as a Leader 29:36 The Importance of Margins and Self-Care 30:10 Participating in Change and Addressing Toxicity 31:50 The Role of Integrity and Responsibility 33:34 Challenges of Speaking Up Against Toxic Leaders 42:46 The Whisper Network: Pros and Cons 48:16 The Importance of Community and Support 51:36 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections If you appreciate the work we do at the Asian American Center at Fuller Seminary, please consider supporting us! Your monetary support sustains our vital work and expands Asian American research, leadership development, and pastoral formation for the Church in the year ahead. Donate here: fuller.edu/giveaac

    57 min
  2. Centering 10x9 - No Sabbath... For God's Glory? (Dr. Alexander Jun)

    FEB 3

    Centering 10x9 - No Sabbath... For God's Glory? (Dr. Alexander Jun)

    No Sabbath…For God’s Glory? This episode of Centering features a conversation with special guest Dr. Alex Jun, research professor of Korean American Ministry and Church Leadership Studies at Fuller Seminary, and director of the Asian American Center’s soon-to-be-launched Korean American Ministry initiative. With hosts Daniel and Yulee, the group delves into the concept of Sabbath and sabbaticals, examining common misunderstandings and the importance of rest for spiritual and community health. They discuss the role of cultural and parental influences on work ethics, the pitfalls of overwork, and how to honor personal limits. Personal anecdotes and practical advice for integrating restful practices into daily life offer listeners a path toward healthier spiritual leadership. 00:00 Introduction to Toxic Ministry 00:56 Listener Stories and Toxic Church Culture 02:22 Special Guest: Alex Jun on Sabbath and Sabbatical 05:31 Misunderstandings of Sabbath 15:09 Cultural Perspectives on Work and Rest 18:26 Immigrant Experience and Work Ethic 24:38 Leadership and Rest in Ministry 27:33 The Struggle of Self-Worth and Leadership 28:14 The Reality of Sabbaticals and Leadership 29:15 Reforming Leadership Through Sabbath 30:40 The Messianic Complex in Leadership 32:52 The Challenge of Rest for Leaders of Color 35:19 Gender Dynamics in Leadership and Rest 36:41 The Model Minority Myth and Faith 44:11 Personal Practices for Sabbath and Rest 50:06 Concluding Thoughts on Sabbath and Humanity Critical Race Theory Centering season https://on.soundcloud.com/lwSbbDg462wyBQzqZD Serge - The Gospel-Centered Life https://serge.org/the-gospel-centered-life/ Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother by Amy Chua https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/battle-hymn-of-the-tiger-mother-amy-chua/1100154952 Khora Collective https://www.khoracollective.com/

    53 min
  3. Centering 10x8 - Using People... For God's Glory? (Dr. Kevin Doi)

    JAN 27

    Centering 10x8 - Using People... For God's Glory? (Dr. Kevin Doi)

    Using People…For God’s Glory? In this episode of the Centering, hosts Yulee Lee and Daniel Lee are joined by special guest Dr. Kevin Doi, Director of Pastoral Formation at the AAC and Affiliate Assistant Professor of Asian American Church Studies at Fuller Seminary. The conversation delves into the temptation to use people for ministry growth, the importance of honoring individual callings, and creating a church environment focused on relational health rather than numerical growth. The episode highlights practical strategies for both recognizing and countering toxic ministry practices in church leadership. 00:00 Introduction to Toxic Ministry 00:47 Understanding Toxic Ministry for God's Glory 02:29 Guest Introduction: Dr. Kevin Doi 04:23 The Familiarity of Oppression in Ministry 06:39 The Challenge of Healthy Boundaries 09:19 Rethinking Church Growth and Leadership 15:45 The Importance of Relational Ministry 25:11 The Role of Ministry Beyond Church Walls 25:57 Challenges of Church Leadership 27:12 Personal Experiences in Church Dynamics 29:29 The Pressure of Metrics in Ministry 32:20 Rethinking Church Leadership and Community 40:30 Practical Steps for Healthy Ministry 47:29 Concluding Thoughts and Next Episode Preview Asian American Pastoral Formation Initiative https://aac.fuller.edu/initiatives/pastoral-formation-initiative/ Leadership and the New Science by Margaret Wheatley https://margaretwheatley.com/books/leadership-and-the-new-science/ Fall 2026 Asian American Ministry Doctor of Ministry cohort, mentored by Dr. Kevin Doi and Dr. Daniel Lee https://fuller.edu/dmin/fall-2026-asian-american-ministry-cohort/ If you appreciate the work we do at the Asian American Center at Fuller Seminary, please consider supporting us! Your monetary support sustains our vital work and expands Asian American research, leadership development, and pastoral formation for the Church in the year ahead. Donate here: fuller.edu/giveaac

    48 min
  4. Centering 10x7 - Fetishized Suffering... For God's Glory? (Dr. Jessica ChenFeng)

    JAN 20

    Centering 10x7 - Fetishized Suffering... For God's Glory? (Dr. Jessica ChenFeng)

    Fetishized Suffering…For God’s Glory? In this episode of Centering, hosts Yulee Lee and Daniel Lee, are joined by guest Dr. Jessica ChenFeng, Associate Professor of Marriage and Family Therapy and Director of the Asian American Wellbeing Collaboratory at Fuller Seminary’s Asian American Center. Together they dive into the problematic glorification of suffering, especially within Asian American Christian contexts, examining how theological and cultural influences lead to detrimental endurance practices. These cultural influences are exacerbated within a systemic evangelical framework that rewards exhaustion, silence, and compliance. The conversation touches on the distorted understanding of suffering, its impact on organizational health, and practical steps toward healing. 00:00 Introduction to Toxic Ministry 01:11 Exploring Suffering in Ministry 02:51 Guest Introduction: Dr. Jessica ChenFeng 04:19 Cultural and Theological Roots of Suffering 11:53 Endurance and Toxic Endurance Culture 21:34 Organizational Costs of Fetishized Suffering 23:05 The Impact of Burnout on Creativity 23:33 Generational Fracture in Organizations 24:35 Theological Perspectives on Suffering 26:25 Therapeutic Approaches to Addressing Toxic Systems 32:58 The Role of Leadership in Healthy Systems 36:27 Personal Stories and Practical Steps for Healing 42:09 The Complexity of Discernment and Wisdom 43:37 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Redemptive Suffering: Christ’s Alone https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/scottish-journal-of-theology/article/abs/redemptive-suffering-christs-alone/C946F1F74F4DD229388BF58C42A6F9CE The Cost of Discipleship by Dietrich Bonhoeffer https://www.fortresspress.com/store/productgroup/467/Discipleship The Integrative Mindset by Brad D. Strawn and Earl D. Bland https://www.ivpress.com/the-integrative-mindset?srsltid=AfmBOooDDJV3-4K75irArSANAu9XWbChTkJPR1SAcP_Tw4-UWT5TvL4g Executive coach, Tracey Gee https://www.instagram.com/traceygee.me/?hl=en

    44 min
  5. Centering 10x6 - Sacrificial Faith... For God's Glory?

    JAN 6

    Centering 10x6 - Sacrificial Faith... For God's Glory?

    Sacrificial Faith…For God’s Glory? In this episode of Centering, hosts Yulee Lee and Daniel Lee discuss the concept of sacrificial faith, critiquing the unhealthy pressure to sacrifice personal well-being for ministry. They emphasize the importance of discerning genuine spiritual practices, recognizing God's presence in all aspects of life, and living with integrity. Join the conversation to rethink what true, life-giving sacrifice means in the context of healthy spiritual leadership. 00:00 Introduction to Toxic Ministry 01:11 Personal Stories of Sacrifice 03:02 Theological Insights on Sacrifice 06:14 Equating Church with God 12:20 Toxic Leadership and Manipulation 19:04 Living Sacrifices in Scripture 22:05 Understanding True Obedience to God 23:03 The Importance of Feeling Loved by God 23:49 Challenges of Growing Up in Church 24:46 Finding Joy in Serving God 25:42 Integrating God into Everyday Life 27:39 The Danger of Spiritual Disciplines Becoming Idols 35:16 Jesus' Invitation to Rest 40:04 Practical Ways to Live Out Faith 43:01 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Khora Collective https://khoracollective.com/ If you appreciate the work we do at the Asian American Center at Fuller Seminary, please consider supporting us! Your monetary support sustains our vital work and expands Asian American research, leadership development, and pastoral formation for the Church in the year ahead. Donate here: fuller.edu/giveaac

    43 min
  6. Centering 10x5 - Spirit's Anointing... For God's Glory?

    12/23/2025

    Centering 10x5 - Spirit's Anointing... For God's Glory?

    Spirit’s Anointing…For God’s Glory? In this episode of Centering, hosts Yulee Lee and Daniel Lee explore the unlikely convergence of the biblical story of Samson, fermentation of kimchi, and iconic Jane Austen characters. The topic, Spirit’s Anointing…For God’s glory? highlights the dangers of conflating giftedness with divine favor, the importance of character over charisma, and the critical need for communal discernment and accountability structures, emphasizing that the anointing of the Spirit is made apparent through the evidence of the fruits of the Spirit. They draw on theological insights, personal anecdotes, and historical examples to emphasize the potential pitfalls of toxic ministry. The episode underscores the necessity for spiritual leaders to embody Christ-like humility and to engage in practices that promote healthy, sustainable, and God-centered leadership. 00:00 Introduction to Toxic Ministry 01:16 Recap of Previous Episode 01:54 The Dangers of Public Figures and Parasocial Relationships 04:36 The Misuse of Spiritual Anointing 07:44 The Importance of Communal Discernment 08:56 Character vs. Charisma in Leadership 14:37 The Role of Wisdom and Maturity 16:07 Distinguishing True Movements of God 18:06 White Christian Nationalism and NAR 20:34 The Importance of Accountability in Leadership 24:36 Avoiding Desperation in Ministry 26:37 The Dangers of Familiarity with Holy Things 29:53 Final Thoughts and Reflections The Violent Take It by Force by Matthew D. Taylor https://www.broadleafbooks.com/store/product/9781506497785/The-Violent-Take-It-by-Force About the New Apostolic Reformation https://www.npr.org/2011/10/03/140946482/apostolic-leader-weighs-religions-role-in-politics If you appreciate the work we do at the Asian American Center at Fuller Seminary, please consider supporting us! Your monetary support sustains our vital work and expands Asian American research, leadership development, and pastoral formation for the Church in the year ahead. Donate here: fuller.edu/giveaac

    30 min
  7. Centering 10x4 - Authoritarianism... For God's Glory? (Dr. Gabriel Jay Catanus)

    12/09/2025

    Centering 10x4 - Authoritarianism... For God's Glory? (Dr. Gabriel Jay Catanus)

    Authoritarianism…For God’s Glory? In this episode of the Centering: the Asian American Christian Podcast, hosts Yulee Lee and Daniel Lee are joined by guest Gabriel Jay Catanus (Director of the Filipino American Ministry Initiative and Affiliate Assistant Professor of Theology and Ethics at Fuller Seminary; Lead Pastor of Garden City Covenant Church - Chicago), who shares insights on the pitfalls of authoritarianism within church leadership, drawing parallels from historical examples like Dietrich Bonhoeffer's criticism of Nazi Germany and discussing how immigrant church communities can inadvertently foster toxic leadership dynamics. The conversation also highlights the importance of plurality, cultural sensitivity, and self-reflection in cultivating healthy spiritual leadership. The episode concludes with practical advice for leaders to avoid believing their own hype and for communities to focus on collaborative and ethical leadership practices. 00:00 Introduction to Toxic Ministry 00:48 Understanding Authoritarianism in Ministry 03:11 Guest Introduction: Gabriel Jay Catanus 04:49 Authority and Power Dynamics in Churches 08:43 Cultural and Spiritual Influences on Leadership 12:35 Charismatic Authority and Its Challenges 21:02 Navigating Spiritual Power and Leadership 27:24 Muscular Christianity and Nazi Ideology 28:10 Identifying Authoritarian Leaders 29:26 Embracing Plurality in Leadership 31:20 Efficiency vs. Plurality in Ministry 32:18 Challenges for Asian American Leaders 35:59 God's Relationship with Authority 37:13 Personal Reflections on Leadership 46:42 Concluding Thoughts and Future Topics Dr. Gabriel Jay Catanus https://www.gabrieljcatanus.com/ Fuller’s Asian American Center aac.fuller.edu The Grand Inquisitor by Dostoevsky https://www.gutenberg.org/files/8578/8578-h/8578-h.htm The Brothers Karamazov by Dostoevsky https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-brothers-karamazov-a-new-translation-by-michael-r-katz-fyodor-dostoevsky/aefeb2fa8f45adb1 Bonhoeffer's 1933 radio address https://books.google.com/books?id=PF1cpVfZS60C&pg=PA268&lpg=PA268&dq#v=onepage&q&f=false If you appreciate the work we do at the Asian American Center at Fuller Seminary, please consider supporting us! Your monetary support sustains our vital work and expands Asian American research, leadership development, and pastoral formation for the Church in the year ahead. Donate here: fuller.edu/giveaac

    47 min
  8. Centering 10x3 - Spiritual Gaslighting... For God's Glory?

    11/25/2025

    Centering 10x3 - Spiritual Gaslighting... For God's Glory?

    This Giving Tuesday, support the work we do at the AAC! Your monetary support sustains our vital work and expands Asian American research, leadership development, and pastoral formation for the Church in the year ahead. Donate here: fuller.edu/giveaac Spiritual Gaslighting…For God’s Glory? In this episode of Centering: the Asian American Christian Podcast, hosts Daniel Lee and Yulee Lee explore spiritual gaslighting, using scriptural examples and personal anecdotes, to illustrate its damaging effects on individuals and community health. Daniel and Yulee emphasize the importance of discernment, the need for genuine lament, and finding emotionally safe communities to navigate and heal from such toxic environments. They encourage listeners to anchor themselves in the true character of God and process their experiences honestly without bypassing pain and reality. 00:00 Introduction and Milestone Celebration 01:02 Season Overview: Toxic Ministry 01:49 Episode 3: Honest Conversations on Toxic Ministry 02:59 The Dangers of Spiritual Bypassing 05:51 Biblical Counseling and Its Pitfalls 12:24 Personal Story: Confronting Toxic Leadership 20:06 Recognizing Spiritual Gaslighting 21:59 Understanding Spiritual Gaslighting 22:23 Cultish Behavior in Churches 23:07 Examples of Spiritual Abuse 25:49 Personal Stories of Spiritual Abuse 27:53 Theological Reflections on Suffering 32:10 The Importance of Lament and Community 36:46 Practical Steps for Healing 40:54 Concluding Thoughts on Discernment Emotionally Healthy Church, Peter Scazzero Emotionally Healthy Spirituality, Peter Scazzero https://www.harpercollinschristian.com/author/369/peter-scazzero/ Bruggemann Loss of Genuine Lament https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/030908928601103605 Cultish by Amanda Montell https://amandamontell.com/cultish/

    42 min
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4.4
out of 5
48 Ratings

About

Centering is the Asian American Christian Podcast: conversations on Christ, the Christian life, and Asian American perspectives. Through our podcast seasons, as well as specially presented content, we dive into the reality and beauty of living out Asian American Christian faith. Centering is a production of the Center for Asian American Theology and Ministry at Fuller Theological Seminary.

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