89 episodes

We have one single mission: Help women find ease, meaning and joy at work and in life. We use our experiences as business owners, entrepreneurs, mentors and inspirational leaders to explore topics that all working women care about: s****y bosses; smashing the patriarchy; balancing work and life; navigating change and getting what you want! We guarantee that you will be entertained and inspired... promise!

Crina and Kirsten Get to Work Crina Hoyer and Kirsten Barron

    • Business
    • 5.0 • 64 Ratings

We have one single mission: Help women find ease, meaning and joy at work and in life. We use our experiences as business owners, entrepreneurs, mentors and inspirational leaders to explore topics that all working women care about: s****y bosses; smashing the patriarchy; balancing work and life; navigating change and getting what you want! We guarantee that you will be entertained and inspired... promise!

    Toxic Coworkers: Removal, Remediation and Containment

    Toxic Coworkers: Removal, Remediation and Containment

    Toxic coworkers–we know ‘em when we see ‘em. They’re passive aggressive, short/curt, rude people, lacking self-awareness with narcissistic tendencies who do not take responsibility, may gaslight us, take credit for others’ accomplishments and make our lives miserable!



    Toxic coworkers suck up all the time, money and energy in the workplace.  In the article “How Toxic Colleagues Corrode Performance,” the authors polled thousands of managers and employees on the receiving end of antisocial behavior from a colleague and found that work quality and quantity of work decreased and folks also lost time - in terms of hours worked, avoiding that coworker or worrying about that coworker.  

    The data also support the toxic coworker is often responsible for team dysfunction.  Functional teams are often called loyalist teams.  Dysfunctional teams are often called saboteur teams - and no surprise, are significantly more likely to contain a toxic coworker.



    Many people believe we need to put up with toxic behavior if the person is a top performer.  It turns out this is another one of those upside down common beliefs in the workplace.  The paradox for leaders is that the common traits of a toxic worker can mean they are a top performer in the company. Tomas Chamorro-Premuzic writes in his article “Why Bad Guys Win at Work,” “for some toxic employees there is a bright side to their dark side. For example, Machiavellian traits such as superficial charm, charisma, self-confidence and interpersonal manipulation can be valuable when developing new client relationships. Likewise, toxic employees with narcissistic tendencies such as ruthlessness and selfishness can be the most productive – driven to achieve their targets whatever the cost.”

    According to Michael Mccoby in the Harvard Business review there is clear evidence that productivity and performance do not justify or make up for the toxic worker.  “Narcissistic Leaders: The Incredible Pros, the Inevitable Cons.” Rather, it turns out these workers’ negative effect in the workplace is not justified by performance or productivity contributions.  Chamarro-Premuzic says, “[t]heir [toxic employees] success comes at a price, and that price is paid by the organization.”.


    WHAT TO DO? 

    Try an honest conversation with the person engaging in the behavior - this is usually always the place to start as long as you feel safe.  Research shows that most of us lack self-awareness, especially at work -  so a conversation can be very helpful.  Remember - feedback is a sign of functional teams.

    Do not stoop to their level, keep your ego in check and practice empathy. Keeping an eye out for your own fight-or-flight response can help you with these tactics.  Some of these toxic behaviors can really tigger us - and our ego. Keep the high ground.  We can even try some empathy - we know that crummy behavior is a terrible burden and gets in the way of not just our ease, meaning and joy - but the toxic worker’s as well - and don’t leave yourself out of a big dose of empathy.

    Talking with your boss about the behavior and getting some support can be very helpful.  Sometimes bosses are not aware of the extent of the problem.

    Take Care of Yourself.  We need to be vigilant about our own emotional, psychological and physical health.  

    Let’s do some hazardous waste removal, remediation and containment!

    • 43 min
    When ’Blah’ Is As Good As It Gets, You Might Be Languishing.

    When ’Blah’ Is As Good As It Gets, You Might Be Languishing.

    When you describe your mood as “blah,” “meh,” “decent, but not great,” you might be LANGUISHING, which can dampen your mood, impact your work and conflict with your ability to experience ease, meaning and joy! In the last few years, the feeling of languishing has been pervasive and profound, especially for women. But there is hope! Join us as we explore this topic and discover simple actions that can help you move from languishing to flourishing.




    We have a new word to describe our experience at work - LANGUISHING.  Crina and Kirsten check in with the smart people and the data to figure out languishing.  According to the American Psychology Association, languishing is the condition of absence of mental health, characterized by ennui, apathy, listlessness, and loss of interest in life.  Crina knows she is languishing when she is doom scrolling on her phone or computer.  Kirsten tends to be a Sunday languisher - when all of the activity and stress of the week catch up with her.


    At work, languishing looks like:

    Feeling disconnected or dissociated from your coworkers
    Being irritable, confused, or sad
    Inability to get excited about upcoming projects
    Difficulty focusing or remembering 
    Cynicism about your leaders, colleagues, or career
    Procrastination or lack of motivation to complete assignments


    Languishing is not a mental health disorder, but it is the opposite of flourishing. Lynn Soots describes flourishing as “the pursuit and engagement of an authentic life that brings inner joy and happiness through meeting goals, being connected with life passions, and relishing in accomplishments through the peaks and valleys of life.”  Important note here - flourishing is a state of being - a process.


    Research suggests those who languish are more likely to experience serious mental illness later. This can include post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), anxiety disorders, and major depression. Adam Grant, in his famous New York Times article on languishing says, “[l]anguishing dulls your motivation, disrupts your ability to focus, and triples the odds that you’ll cut back on work. It appears to be more common than major depression — and in some ways it may be a bigger risk factor for mental illness.”  New evidence from pandemic health care workers in Italy shows that those who were languishing in the spring of 2020 were three times more likely than their peers to be diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder.


    Adam Grant suggests a few antidotes to languishing:

    Focus on a small goal:  We want to cultivate a sense of progress. 
    Give yourself some uninterrupted time: set boundaries with your time and normalize turning off your phone, email, etc - minimizing distractions when you are languishing is helpful because we are more vulnerable to distraction when we are languishing.

    Find ways to see that you’re “making a difference to other people” This may be as simple as doing something kind or generous for a coworker or another person in your life.


    According to Dr. Martin Seligman’s research on flourishing, the best way to move from languishing to flourishing is the PERMA model.. It stands for:

    Positive emotions - create them
    Engagement - get into “flow”
    Relationships - receive and give support and intimacy from others
    Meaning - ahh - the hard one - create a valuable and worthwhile life
    Accomplishments - make progress.


    And remember - flourishing is a process - not an end-game.


    Are You Languishing? Here's How to Regain Your Sense of Purpose

    Adam Grant: How to stop languishing and start finding flow | TED Talk

    Feeling Blah During the Pandemic? It's Called Languishing - The New York Times

    What To Say To Your “Languishing” Employees Post-Covid-19

    • 46 min
    Success is within your reach, but you need to define it first

    Success is within your reach, but you need to define it first

    Do you want to achieve the objective markers of success such as money, power and status? Perhaps you are seeking more subjective things such as challenging work, recognition or autonomy. Regardless of how you define success, the way to achieve it is through deep personal work, commitment and grit. 




    What is success at work to you? You can think about a job well done, tasks completed, a healthy team, and you can also think on a larger scale about a successful career.  The data shows that your definition of success changes as you get more experience, and is sometimes a reflection of where you live and who you live with - the external definitions of success can have a powerful impact on you.  The focus of this episode is the big picture of success and a subjective definition that aligns with each of our values, allows for authenticity, makes the best use of our skills and talents and challenges us to grow.


    Traditional markers of career success such as title, salary, promotions, and the like are great to a point, but they are not the whole picture and are missing some of the important considerations.  Harvard Business Review points us to the subjective measures of success: 


    Performing work that we find interesting and fascinating
    Overcoming challenges
    Having autonomy in how you perform your work
    Developing new skills and deepening existing ones
    Having work and personal life complement and enrich each other
    Being recognized as an expert
    Having the trust of your colleagues and superiors
    Building valuable relationships inside and outside of your organization
    Contributing to shared knowledge in your organization by training others
    Collaborating effectively with a team of talented colleagues
    Receiving recognition for your achievements and contributions
    Seeing the positive impact of your work on end users or on society
    Leaving a legacy that you’re proud of


    Success requires a growth mindset, goal setting and tracking, authenticity and self awareness and confidence.  Success is a long trajectory and will come with setbacks and change - these are the prickly parts to embrace as we create our own versions of success. As we define success for ourselves and move in that direction by setting goals and monitoring our progress, it is important to remember the big picture and treat not only the achievements but also the learnings along the way as markers that we are on the path to success, as we each define it.


    Rethink What You “Know” About High-Achieving Women (hbr.org) 

    How to write your own definition of success – step-by-step formula — Imogen Roy | Create a legendary life and never burn out again

    Make Your Career a Success by Your Own Measure

    5 Ways Success Can Change Someone | Psychology Today

    • 45 min
    The Fairy Dust of Effective Teams - Psychological Safety

    The Fairy Dust of Effective Teams - Psychological Safety

    Teamwork doesn’t have to suck! In fact, magic can happen when team members tend to each others’ basic needs–most notably, their psychological safety. Psychological safety is the belief that you won’t be punished or humiliated for speaking up with ideas, questions, concerns, or mistakes. Seems like a direct line to ease, meaning and joy!




    On this episode of Crina and Kirsten Get to Work, our hosts tackle teams at work.  For those of us who have been on good teams, we know the benefits:

    collaborative problem solving leads to better outcome
    we are willing to take more risks when we are supported by a good team and that leads to innovation  
    teams encourage personal growth, increase job satisfaction, and reduce stress.


    The question is how to create great teams.  Google, with all of its data and metrics and algorithms, conducted a five year study of its teams (called Project Aristotle) to try to distinguish what makes a good team versus a dysfunctional team.  It turns out that psychological safety is at the root of what makes an effective team.  Psychological safety is the belief that you won’t be punished or humiliated for speaking up with ideas, questions, concerns, or mistakes.  The Google Study tells us about the core attribute of effective teams, but how do we create the special sauce of psychological safety.


    According to Dr. Timothy Clark, author of The 4 Stages of Psychological Safety: Defining the Path to Inclusion and Innovation, employees have to progress through 4 stages before they feel free to make valuable contributions and challenge the status quo.  The first stage is inclusion safety and is that basic need to connect and belong - which is really about bringing your unique self and being accepted to full participation in the group.  The second is learner safety, which satisfies our need as humans to learn and grow - where we can ask questions, make mistakes, where failure is an opportunity and not a punishment.  The third stage is contributor safety and is the place we satisfy our need to make a difference - it means we have a place to use our skills and talents.  The fourth stage is challenger safety, which meets our need to make things better and to speak up to challenge the status quo - and requires the ability to effectively deal with conflict. 


    It turns out not only Google has concluded this concept of psychological safety is the hallmark of the most high performing teams, but so has Harvard University in a study of teams during Covid.  What were these folks on effective teams doing?  They were communicating more, particularly by phone, making an average 10 .1 calls per day as opposed to 6.1 for those teams who were less successful.  They were also running more efficient meetings - agendas, meeting preparation - which set the stage for more fruitful interactions.  These folks are also interacting with each other outside of work - the most effective teams were not always working together, but also playing together.  The Covid success teams were also recognizing each other with more frequency - for good work, for meeting challenges and the like - not just management, but among each other.  What we learned from the Project Aristotle Study was true here as well - the people on the successful teams felt they could be authentic at work.


    This is a podcast about women and work and ease meaning and joy, so here is the juicy nugget about women and teams . . .  Scientists at MIT, Carnegie Mellon, and Union College suggest the most efficient groups — the ones who are the best at collaborating, analyzing problems, and solving them the fastest and most effectively — had three things in common, one of which was simply that they had more women.  Yesss! If we want more successful teams - just add more women - and of course psychological safety.


    Good Reads:

    The Secret To Efficient Teamwork Is Ridiculously Simple

    The benefits of teamwork (as prove

    • 53 min
    Are You Ready For The Future Of Work?

    Are You Ready For The Future Of Work?

    The post pandemic workplace is predicted to look very different from that of the past. With changes to our lives, our shifting priorities, the low unemployment rate, and the different expectations we have of our jobs, workers are driving change at a rapid rate.  In this episode, we explore a new study that reveals the data that will likely shape our workplaces into the future. 



    We know that work is changing.  58% of workers feel the pandemic forced them to rethink work-life balance and 25% of workers have changed jobs.  According to a new report from Bain and Company, the new workplace is driving a significant change in the balance of power between employees and companies - and leaders are rethinking their approach to talent.

    Bain & Company engaged in an in-depth research project to help us define the broader implications of the future of work and identified five key themes that will reshape work into the future.

    Motivations for work are changing - the reasons we go to work are changing.  With the decline in social institutions such as churches and social clubs, people are increasingly seeking out social connection at work.  As countries become more prosperous, the importance of leisure activities rises.  And of course - people are looking for meaning and a sense of higher purpose, including a commitment to 


    Beliefs about what makes a good job are changing -  Bain & Company identified 10 dimensions of a job - and the dimensions are those factors folks consider in determining what makes a good job.  These are factors such as how much of identity comes from work, how important status is, our financial motivation,  autonomy, camaraderie, future orientation, variety, mystery and ability to make a difference.  These dimensions led Bain & Company to conclude that while we are all different - there are six meta categories of workers: Operators, Givers, Artisans, Explorers, Strivers, and Pioneers. 


    Automation is rehumanizing word, which we see in automation, the ability of the internet to do our work for us and in new processes and technologies to make work easier.  


    Technological change is blurring boundaries of the firm in that we are almost always available to work and always always available to our personal lives.  


    Younger workers are increasingly overwhelmed.  Younger workers have been exposed to political polarization, geopolitical tensions, and concerns about climate change, not to mention a pandemic. 


    And then our hosts take us through the best part of the study and report - so what?  Bain & Company suggests that this means that employers get better at being talent makers as opposed to talent takers - which means more focus and investment in learning and a growth mindset.  Employers will also need to stop managing workers like machines and manage for individuals.  This means a greater focus on mental health and recognizing that mental health is a key component of overall worker health.  Lastly, Bain & Company believes that successful firms will build an organization that offers a sense of belonging and opportunity for its many unique workers while remaining united through a shared vision and communal values.  As workers, Crina and Kirsten believe recognizing what archetype we each are and what we need from work, engaging in ways to boost our understanding and experience with tech are both important for the worker.  Oh - yeah - and they suggest being crazy kind to yourself because the world is bat shit crazy.


    The Working Future: More Human, Not Less | Bain & Company


    • 50 min
    Caring for Caregivers

    Caring for Caregivers

    Women occupy the majority of roles in education, social work and health care. We spend our work days caring for the young, old, sick, and infirmed. We teach, care, give, love, nurture, heal, and serve. Our work educates the next generation, provides a safety-net for the vulnerable, heals the sick, and feeds the hungry. This episode pays tribute to the women who hold up the world.


    This episode of Crina and Kirsten Get to Work is in honor of and devoted to caregivers - those people, primarily women, who have devoted their professional lives to caring for others.  


    Caregivers always play an important role in our communities, but with Covid-19, they have played a superhero role.


    The episode explores women as professional caregivers, what professional caregiver roles remain difficult to acquire despite the fact that women dominate these fields; the challenges in the workplace for caregivers and ways we can support caregivers.


    When you listen to this episode, think about the news reports we saw on television during the pandemic showing the appreciation the Italians showed caregivers at the change of shift - applause, music and singing, hoots and hollers.  If you are a caregiver, we hope you feel seen and celebrated and if you are not a caregiver, we hope to deepen your appreciation for these very important workers.


    Good reads:

    How Millions of Women Became the Most Essential Workers in America - The New York Times

    Women in the labor force: a databook : BLS Reports

    Why Don't People Care That Men Don't Choose Caregiving Professions? - Scientific American Blog Network

    Women in health care suffer burnout disproportionately to men - ABC News


    Caring for our caregivers during COVID-19 | American Medical Association

    • 35 min

Customer Reviews

5.0 out of 5
64 Ratings

64 Ratings

H"-@:&;$($:@-@ ,

Crina and Kirsten Get to Work

This podcast is a must-listen for every working woman! It’s refreshing to hear two savvy, hilarious, insightful career gals open up about their daily struggles and challenges, and how they’ve found workarounds. LOVE this show!!

Talking To Crows ,

It's not a water cooler, it's the oasis!

This podcast is equal parts hard data, laughter, inspiration, and tremendous joy. Crina and Kirsten are an inspriation. They are able to cut to the truth of the experience for women in the workplace and frequently make my cheeks hurt from laughing. A must-listen.

Jmmercer ,

Great Pod!

Entertaining conversation and great audio. A fun podcast that’s easy to binge!

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