D’Amato & Szabo: Wine Thieves John & Sara

The Thieves embark on a South African “wine safari” with  Pieter Walser of Blank Bottle Wines based in Sommerset West near Stellenbosch, one of the most unusual and innovative wine businesses  anywhere, and Peter-Allan Finlayson of Crystallum Wines and Gabrielskloof in the Bot River region. Finlayson is a third generation winemaker and the son of the man who pioneered Pinot Noir winemaking in the Hemel-en-Aarde region, Peter Finlayson, the first winemaker at Hamilton Russell and the founder of Bouchard Finlayson.

You’ll get a clear sense of the fun, irreverent, and innovative nature of the SA wine industry. There’s an entire generation currently scouring the Cape for interesting vineyards and old quirky varieties and crafting a range of exciting wines with little winemaking intervention. These mavericks are playing a vital role in keeping old vines in the ground and supporting small farmers, all the while breathing fresh life into this centuries-old industry and turning the establishment upside down. These radicals of the industry run parallel to the more storied, traditional wine farms of South Africa, some of which have been producing wine for over three centuries, creating one of the most dynamic wine scenes on the planet. 

In the interview with Peter Allan and Pieter, John &  Sara get to the heart of how this multi-faceted industry arose. They'll discuss the role of the KWV, the cooperative founded in 1918, which helped unite winegrowers during a challenging period, to its current state as a cooperative company structure.  They'll discover how a kind of exploratory, guerilla-style winemaking took hold and why a good sub-section of the South African wine industry seems to be hell-bent on dispensing with so many of the wine world’s traditions. This spirit is exemplified by the  Zoo Cru, a loose association of likeminded (similarly manic?) winemakers of which Peter-Allan Finlayson is a founding member,, as well as other “splinter” groups  like the Swartland Revolution, who take fun and wine very seriously, but  themselves, not so much.

And f you've ever thought about how to go about setting up a wine business, you’ll want to strap yourself in for this exploration of the wilder side of the South African wine industry.

This episode was produced in collaboration with Wines of South Africa.

This episode takes a wide-ranging look at biodynamic agriculture, which, perhaps not so coincidentally, seems to be the foundational philosophy underlying a disproportionately large percentage of the world’s best wines. The Thieves speak with two prominent Californian practitioners of biodynamics to discuss several aspects of this philosophy-cum-practical manifesto, first developed by Austrian-born philosopher and social reformer Rudolf Steiner, who lived from 1861-1925.

 Show guests Rodrigo Soto, Chilean-born viticulturist now general manager at Augustín Huneeus’s flagship Napa Valley estate, Quintessa, and John Hamel, the second generation at Hamel Family Wines across the Mayacamas Mountains in Sonoma discuss the practical, mystical and controversial aspects of biodynamic wine production . Both are fervent believers in the power of biodynamic agriculture, and above all, have an unshakeable faith in the power of nature to deliver something in the glass of greater interest than what humankind on its own could offer. 

Listen on for a brief overview of biodynamics, how science is catching up to the sometimes fantastical claims,  the value of certification, the dark side of Steiner's  beliefs and finding balance in nature.

Originally aired November 2022: The Thieves are  back in Europe to explore the wealth of indigenous grape varieties and stunning stunning old vineyards found in Portugal.  Exactly how this sliver of the Iberian peninsula has been able to safeguard traditions, vineyards and distinctive regional character is what Sara and John are out to learn in this special reissue episode. 

They have a hunch that large-volume producers have a role to play, and invite three important guests to investigate: Martim Guedes, the Co-CEO of Aveleda (along with Antonio Guedes). Martim’s great-great grandfather Manoel Pedro Guedes founded Quinta da Aveleda in the Minho region 150 years ago, helping the wines of Vinho Verde achieve international recognition . The company has since expanded to the Douro, Bairrada and Algarve, and exports to more than 70 countries.

Luís Almada is an Executive Board Member of Casa Santos Lima, a family owned company that makes wine in Lisboa, Algarve, Alentejo, Vinho Verde and the Douro, exporting 90% of its total production to more than 50 countries on 5 continents.  Casa Santos Lima is It is the largest single producer of Vinho Regional Lisboa (responsible for the production of more than 50% of all the certified wine in the Lisboa region) and DOC Alenquer.

Pedro da Fonseca is  managing partner of Vicente Leite Faria in the Douro Valley, drawing on fruit from estate vineyards as well as hundreds of small growers that together account for over 500 hectares of vineyards.  Born in Portugal but raised in Canada, Pedro studied at York University in Toronto before earning a Master’s degree from Harvard, and he's currently a PhD candidate at the London Metropolitan University. Pedro has a sincere love for wines of his mother country and their proliferation abroad.

We delve into topics such as the incentivization of small growers by large producers,  land conservation, and the preservation and re-propagation of rare, indigenous grapes. Although other countries such as the Republic of Georgia, Greece, and Italy can also boast many indigenous grapes, Portugal claims the highest density, some 250 varieties across an area six times smaller than France (551,500 km² vs. 92,120 km²).  But many are on the verge of extinction. We’ll find out what large wine companies are doing to help protect and preserve grape varieties that are at risk such as Azal, Codega do Larinho, Sousao, Tinta Grossa, and Jampal, among many others.

Climate change has also affected Portugal harder than many wine regions, pushing Portuguese growers to become global leaders in responding to the climate threat.  You'll find out what environmental initiatives these leading brands have undertaken, and how have these practices have had an impact on the industry at large.

Join John and Sara for an invigorating discussion on the role of leading brands safeguarding land, grapes and traditions in Portugal.

Sponsored by ViniPortugal. 

We’re kicking off 2023 and season three of the podcast with a look at one of the hottest wine trends down under: cool and fresh red wines from Australia. Once famous, and still well-known for robust, full-bodied, sunshine-filled jammy reds, today there’s serious momentum gathering, and already flowing, for lighter styles of red, fresher, less oaky, with lower alcohol and higher drinkability. So, what is driving this trend? What should we be looking for, and where?

The Thieves look to cool geography, viticultural methods and changing trends for answers with their guests  Mac Forbes and Sam Berketa. Mac Forbes established Mac Forbes Wines in 2004, with the aim of to better understanding and connecting with his native region. He credits the knowledge of the local Indigenous community who have lived and farmed this region for over 50,000 years as having helped him on his journey to become one of the most celebrated producers in the Yarra. Forbes specializes in pinot noir and chardonnay from vineyards across the Yarra Valley. Forbes also makes “village level” cuvées in the Burgundian fashion representing the various sub-regions of the Yarra, as well as the region-wide Yarra Valley offerings. The playground of exploration comes under the Experimental Batch range.

Sam Berketa is head winemaker at Alpha Box & Dice based in the McLaren Vale but has previously worked in the Yarra Valley, the Mornington Peninsula, Germany's Rheinhessen, in Barolo, Italy, as well as in Monterey in California applying his global knowledge to local production . Since its beginning in 2008, AB&D has become a champion of South Australia's alternative – particularly Mediterranean – varieties, exhibiting innovation at every step of the process by bending traditional winemaking norms.

Join John and Sara as they toast to the fresh, innovative reds produced in Australia's cooler reaches.

For extra credit, revisit Episode 9 of Season 2,  on the refreshing white wines of Australia, where we learn about the growing trend for lighter whites as well from guests Louisa Rose of Yalumba and Pewsey Vale (or rather Hill-Smith Family Vineyards as they’re known now), and Con-Greg Grigoriou, winemaker and partner at the Delinquente Wine Co. based in Riverland, as we have a similar discussion with them.

*This episode was produced in partnership with Wine Australia.

With a broad, international perspective, award-winning author, Decanter columnist and broadcaster, Andrew Jefford shares his thoughts on Ontario Chardonnay after his role as a keynote speaker at this year's i4C (International Cool Climate Celebration) in Niagara, Ontario. Join John & Sara as they listen in to Jefford's consequential speech which connects the dynamic aspects of wine to music. 

Jefford shares his understanding of how a winemaker can bring a sense of place most memorably into being, without the hindsight of a long tradition. In the case of Ontario, Jefford tells us why chardonnay is most apt in clearly revealing a sense of North: "the great brooding icy masses of water; the sticky chaos of moraine and till; the implacable grey of winter; the green frenzy of summer." If a region's uniqueness can be expressed through the instrument of a grape variety, the group discusses the importance of "winemakers who are listening for singularities of landscape and topographical aptitude." But is chardonnay, like the cherished piano, overused and taken for granted? All this and more in this unforgettable episode of The Wine Thieves. 

The Thieves are  back in Europe to explore the wealth of indigenous grape varieties and stunning stunning old vineyards found in Portugal.  Exactly how this sliver of the Iberian peninsula has been able to safeguard traditions, vineyards and distinctive regional character is what Sara and John are out to learn. 

They have a hunch that large-volume producers have a role to play, and invite three important guests to investigate: Martim Guedes, the Co-CEO of Aveleda (along with Antonio Guedes). Martim’s great-great grandfather Manoel Pedro Guedes founded Quinta da Aveleda in the Minho region 150 years ago, helping the wines of Vinho Verde achieve international recognition . The company has since expanded to the Douro, Bairrada and Algarve, and exports to more than 70 countries.

Luís Almada is an Executive Board Member of Casa Santos Lima, a family owned company that makes wine in Lisboa, Algarve, Alentejo, Vinho Verde and the Douro, exporting 90% of its total production to more than 50 countries on 5 continents.  Casa Santos Lima is It is the largest single producer of Vinho Regional Lisboa (responsible for the production of more than 50% of all the certified wine in the Lisboa region) and DOC Alenquer.

Pedro da Fonseca is  managing partner of Vicente Leite Faria in the Douro Valley, drawing on fruit from estate vineyards as well as hundreds of small growers that together account for over 500 hectares of vineyards.  Born in Portugal but raised in Canada, Pedro studied at York University in Toronto before earning a Master’s degree from Harvard, and he's currently a PhD candidate at the London Metropolitan University. Pedro has a sincere love for wines of his mother country and their proliferation abroad.

 We delve into topics such as the incentivization of small growers by large producers,  land conservation, and the preservation and re-propagation of rare, indigenous grapes. Although other countries such as the Republic of Georgia, Greece, and Italy can also boast many indigenous grapes, Portugal claims the highest density, some 250 varieties across an area six times smaller than France (551,500 km² vs. 92,120 km²).  But many are on the verge of extinction. We’ll find out what large wine companies are doing to help protect and preserve grape varieties that are at risk such as Azal, Codega do Larinho, Sousao, Tinta Grossa, and Jampal, among many others.

Climate change has also affected Portugal harder than many wine regions, pushing Portuguese growers to become global leaders in responding to the climate threat.  You'll find out what environmental initiatives these leading brands have undertaken, and how have these practices have had an impact on the industry at large.

Join John and Sara for an invigorating discussion on the role of leading brands safeguarding land, grapes and traditions in Portugal.

Sponsored by ViniPortugal.