Artificial Intelligence EMDR--What about the therapist? (Ep. 205: Sander Kamphuis, part 2 of 4‪)‬ The Dissociative Table

This episode is the second in a four-part series, featuring a conversation with Sander Kamphuis, CEO and founder of Moovd. He and his colleagues have created an AI-driven EMDR software called WeMind. WeMind is already being used by thousands of therapists with thousands of clients, has involved some of the biggest names in EMDR (Ad de Jongh, for instance), and is the subject of intense academic research.



This second episode begins to explore complexities and ethical issues with AI-optimized therapy. For more general information on WeMind, a demonstration, its basis in Working Memory Taxation theory, and how AI optimizes trauma processing, please consult Episode 204. You can link to Moovd's own description and research at www.moovd.nl/en.



So, again, this episode begins to pose ethical questions regarding the use of WeMind, especially with newly trained EMDR therapists, or consultees in training. For instance, if we learn by making mistakes, what happens to learning when AI makes the mistakes for us? Subsequent episodes will delve even deeper into complexities, including ethical concerns regarding the inevitable development of AI-controlled software that cuts out the therapist entirely. That is, WeMind has produced robust results for clients with even CPTSD, and as a result, EMDR is only the beginning for AI and complex trauma. Regardless of what therapy you use, these four episodes will be of great interest.



Episode highlights include:



-The importance of outcome studies, given the prevalence of "fake cures" in brief treatment that does not adequately explore attachment wounds and highly dissociated early trauma

-AI as an augmentation of clinician skill, rather than a replacement

-Outcome studies with EMDR that integrates exposure in a European manner, something often shocking to US clinicians

-Surprising Jungian connections?

-The host's criticisms of existing research on WeMind

-The host's concerns regarding the use of WeMind with newly trained therapists, as mentioned above

-The possible development of a large language model-based "fake client" of variable complexity, to increase the confidence of new EMDR clinicians, and to further the training of highly skilled clinicians



These episodes featuring Mr. Kamphuis represent a considered and impartial exploration, not an advertisement. It is important to note (as usual) that neither TDT, nor its hosts and associates, have received financial compensation for these episodes. Advertisement of the product's free trial is intended to help you make up your own mind. TDT's hosts have directly tested WeMind to avoid absolute naiveté, both in real clinical settings, and in a controlled, experimental manner to test its limits.



In future (as in past) episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to Mr. Kamphuis's views, and this video is a dialogue, rather than an endorsement of his perspectives. Likewise, The Dissociative Table does not endorse the views of its hosts, nor do any professional organizations to which the hosts or guests might belong. Join the discussion of this episode and others at the anonymous, free, clinicians-only discussion board by emailing dissociativetable@gmail.com.



The music in this episode is taken from the song "The Glowing Sea," from Cracked Machine's 2024 album Wormwood. The band has generously donated rights to their music to TDT in support of increased global access to effective trauma treatment. Stream or download at: https://crackedmachine.bandcamp.com/