37 episodes

Enjoy a front-row seat as Chris speaks with thought-provoking C-Suite executives and leaders from corporations, both public and private, professional service firms, and of course, the legal industry from around the United States.

The Future Is Bright Podcast The Future Is Bright Podcast

    • Business
    • 5.0 • 26 Ratings

Enjoy a front-row seat as Chris speaks with thought-provoking C-Suite executives and leaders from corporations, both public and private, professional service firms, and of course, the legal industry from around the United States.

    EP #35: The Future of Law Firm Sales is about Value with Marty Cohn

    EP #35: The Future of Law Firm Sales is about Value with Marty Cohn

    Marty Cohn, the National Director of Client Engagement at Sheppard Mullin, has a diverse background with significant experience in both consulting and legal sectors in the U.S. Initially steering clear of sales in favor of marketing, Marty's perspective shifted as he recognized the importance of accountability and return on investment (ROI) in marketing, sparking a newfound enthusiasm for sales. In this episode of The Future Is Bright podcast, he sits down with host Chris Batz to delve into the nuances of selling professional services, emphasizing the foundational role of relationships, people, and trust.
     
    During his tenure as the marketing director for the national sports sector at PricewaterhouseCoopers, Marty played a pivotal role in elevating the firm to a leading position among the Big Four's sports practices. He also shares insights from a survey he conducted at Sheppard Mullin, where he gathered opinions from 31 marketing professionals on the current state of sales. Marty discusses his method for identifying potential clients and the criticality of adhering to the American Bar Association's (ABA) best practices.
     
    Join today’s discussion to hear his thoughts on the difference between the worlds of accounting/consulting and the law business, the infinite value of LinkedIn and how he manages to mentor others without actually acting as a mentor.
     
    Quotes
    “In our business, we’re talking about relationships and respect and trust and every interaction is different and every marketing and sales opportunity is different because you’re dealing with a person, not an inanimate object.” (2:06 | Marty Cohn) 
    “It’s a matter of respect and best practices. This is a relationship business, our opportunity to bring in a new client is going to be based on our ability to build a trusted relationship with transparency.” (16:54 | Marty Cohn) 
    “My day is a mix of always looking for potential new clients, following up on existing sales opportunities, following up and being involved in active sales opportunities, working with my partners and our internal teams on all of these pursuits. It’s a big mix.” (18:15 | Marty Cohn)
    “I think there’s so much potential here in our business. It’s tremendously rewarding. I find it to be challenging, fun, every adjective that you can give it is probably in my vocabulary of what goes on day-to-day.” (21:55 | Marty Cohn)
     
    Links
    Connect with Marty Cohn:
    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marty-cohn-b890363/
     
    Connect with Chris Batz:
    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 
    Instagram: @theliongroupllc



    Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm
     

    • 32 min
    EP #34 Passionate about People and Culture with Michael Pierson and Joel Ferdinand

    EP #34 Passionate about People and Culture with Michael Pierson and Joel Ferdinand

    “It’s culture through and through,” says Micheal Pierson about Pierson Ferdinand LLC, which he co-chairs with Joel Ferdinand and which recently launched one of the largest law firm launches in U.S. history, counting over 130 partners. The two men join host Chris Batz to discuss the firm, why it’s both ahead of its time and bolstered by timeless principles. Pierson Ferdinand, they say, is about people, happiness and freedom. Where many firms, particularly older ones, are hesitant to embrace technology, theirs thrives on it and the two co-chairs have been practicing the post-COVID-style work model for years now. Having witnessed bosses and supervisors do all the wrong things, they strive to create an open-door environment, where every employee can make their concerns known. They know the importance of listening more than they speak, of admitting they’re wrong—neither of which is easy for lawyers—and putting family first. It’s a mission of service, Joel says, that borders on the biblical. 
     
    In this episode, he and Michael discuss the changing legal landscape in a post-COVID world and in a current climate which includes the war in Ukraine, a potential uncoupling with China, issues with the U.S.’s membership in NATO. What opportunities does all this present for lawyers in the U.S., the largest legal market in the world? Since COVID accelerated profitability of so many Adlaw’s Top 100 and 200 firms, what does this mean for billable time? What do clients and lawyers want?
     
    On this episode of The Future is Bright, Michael Pierson and Joel Ferdinand explore these issues as well as surprising new developments in the last two years which, they say, could push us into a whole new world. 
     
    Quotes
    “We’ve started to see a large uptick in lawyers who are looking for better options who are looking for better alternatives than just practicing at a very large law firm environment. And that’s in large part what Pierson Ferdinand aims to do, which is to redefine the notion of what an elite law firm can be.” (4:45 | Michael Pierson) 
    “Law firms are very resistant to change, being as old as many of them are. And I completely understand that, Michael completely understands that. Clients want change.” (5:48 | Joel Ferdinand)
    “It’s a pretty turbulent time and it’s one of these times where we can be a very steady hand for our clients in their business affairs, but fundamentally it’s a tumultuous time to be on this planet.” (12:34 | Michael Pierson)
    “This is one of the core tenets of Pierson Ferdinand: it’s culture through and through.”  (13:32 | Michael Pierson) 
    “Lawyers typically are so antagonistic to tech.” (23:56 | Joel Ferdinand)
    “To me, this is biblical. When Michael said we believe in service and leadership, we do. That comes from something very specific for me, and much like Michael said, I watched for close to 20 years of a career, would-be bosses or supervisors even in my early stages, be awful. They’d yell at you, they’d cuss at you, they’d haze you. Because they thought that was the cultural environment of a law firm, or of a business. And I watched it from a distance before I got into C-suites and once I got into C-suites, I watched it closely and tried to do something different.” (31:39 | Joel Ferdinand) 



    Links
    Connect with Michael Pierson | Co-Chairman & Corporate:
    Website: https://pierferd.com/michael-pierson
    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amichaelpierson/
     
    Joel Ferdinand | Co-Chairman & Litigation:
    Website: https://pierferd.com/joel-m-ferdinand
    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joel-ferdinand-a7518519/
     
    https://pierferd.com/news/pierson-ferdinand-debuts
     
    Connect with Chris Batz:
    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 
    Instagram: @theliongroupllc
     
    Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm
     

    • 39 min
    EP #33 Leverage in Corporate Law Firms with Dan Binstock and Gary Miles

    EP #33 Leverage in Corporate Law Firms with Dan Binstock and Gary Miles

    “You can only divvy up the pie so much and distribute it so much before it starts eating into the profitability,” says Dan Binstock who, with Gary Miles, returns to the podcast to discuss the latest trends in corporate law partnership. More and more major law firms are shortening the length of time it takes for their associates to make partner, or bestowing the title of partner to those who are, in practice, really senior associates. This allows firms to to charge partner-level prices while clients receiving associate-level prices. This raises issues about quality,integrity, transparency. How long can such a practice continue before firms’ integrity and performance are sacrificed for short-term profitability? What happens when firms over-leverage themselves? 
     
    By misrepresenting their statistics, Gary explains, more and more firms are robbing valuable players of their due recognition and compensation, and the profits are split among a larger pool of people. Part of the problem is the psychological pressure on both sides–firms don’t want to look like they’re not expanding (and therefore falling behind), and so they offer partnerships to candidates who want to feel like they have a seat at the table. 
     
    Part of a recruiter’s job, Dan explains, is to help partners understand what equity means at different firms. He, Gary, and Chris discuss what will happen when, with inflation, rates continue to go up and the inevitable pullback comes. They also explain why firms should think in terms of categories and not tiers. 
     
    Quotes
    “There are a whole bunch of other reasons, like recruiting benefits and profitabilities increasing and going so much higher, you can only divvy up the pie so much and distribute it so much before it starts eating into the profitability. And as we’ve got groups and groups of people who are really skilled but  may not have the business development chops to bring in as much business, putting them into equity may dilute the profits.” (11:23 | Dan)
    “More firms are increasingly needing a home for the people whom they don’t want to lose, who are very, very valuable but who aren’t yet equity-ready, for one reason or another. They’re losing these people to other firms who are saying, ‘Come over here, we’ll make you an equity partner.’ And it’s an ego and a marketing thing–well, calling it an ego thing is not fair. It’s not just ego, it’s marketing and feeling like even if you’ve got a small seat at the table, it’s still some type of seat.” (12:04 | Dan)
    “You could be a partner that’s on the lower end, or in the middle, and you did what you were supposed to do but you didn't receive any overrun. It has nothing to do with the firm’s performance. The firm took that money, put it into their bonus pool that all equity partners share in, but then disperses it very unevenly.” (18:19 | Gary)
    “I think, really, the whole term of equity, at a lot of firms, is just that: it’s just nomenclature. We all know, at most firms, you have as much equity as the contribution you make to the firm, usually in the form of business. That’s generally where the equity lies.” (20:04 | Gary) 
    “One thing we don’t talk enough about–and this plays at the associate level but plays even more at the partner level of recruiting–is how much psychological and political stuff is baked into the cake already. How important it is for law firm leaders, or the pressure law firm leaders feel, to stay consistent in where they are or rising in the ‘outward presentation of a hierarchical ecosystem of firms.’” (35:06 | Gary)



    Links
    Bloomberg Law Article: One Tiny Number Shows Why More Firms Want Non Equity Partners
    https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business-and-practice/one-tiny-number-shows-why-more-firms-want-nonequity-partners
     
    Connect with Dan Binstock:
    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/legalrecruiter/
    Garrison: https://g-s.com
    Lateral Par

    • 48 min
    Ep #32 Deceptive Legal Recruiters and How Law Partners can Protect Themselves with Dan Binstock and Gary Miles

    Ep #32 Deceptive Legal Recruiters and How Law Partners can Protect Themselves with Dan Binstock and Gary Miles

    “Why do we have this problem with such smart people, the brightest of the brights, attorneys at such top firms, getting wrapped up with shady people?” asks Dan Binstock, who returns, with Gary Miles, to the podcast to discuss the less-than-ethical practices employed by legal recruiters that potential candidates need to watch out for. Part of the problem, they explain, is that for all of their advanced education, most candidates are woefully uneducated in this area of recruiting, not to mention many firms fall for the fallacy that if they’re not actively growing they’re shrinking. So, a fast-talking, sales-focused recruiter who’s willing to cut ethical corners and appeal to a candidates’ healthy ego, can convince the candidate to make a decision that could alter the course of their career. 
     
    The answer, they agree, is doing the same due diligence as a candidate that one does as a lawyer. Ask the right questions, many examples of which are provided in today’s discussion. Take your time; listen to what is said and what is not said. Don’t fall for fast answers or, as Gary says, give the recruiter an inch of rope and let them think they’re a cowboy. 
     
    Dan and Chris act out a series of role plays to give you a better idea of how to remain in control of the conversation with deceptive legal recruiters. They’ll also go over the importance of expressed consent when closing out a conversation. 
     
    Quotes
    “A lot of people who are drawn to recruiting or sales in general tend to be people that, maybe are really good talkers, and may not have the highest ethical barometers and may fudge the corners a little bit.” (7:32 | Dan) 
    “A lot of firms think that if they do the deal with the “unethical recruiter” at least, for some period of time, according to their fee agreement, the person will not call in their lawyers to try to move someone out of their firm. So it gets to be a cost/benefit analysis.”  (14:12 | Gary)
    “You do so much diligence, so much preparation, so much finding out what is going to impact your clients’ situation in any given context or business that they’re involved in. Yet, when it comes to a partner’s career, and making one of the most important decisions they’re going to make if I’m going to move from my firm, if so, where? What will be the best fit for me and my practice? What is the potential for long term success? A lot of partners won’t do any diligence.” (20:25 | Gary) 
    “If they can’t speak about the search for at least 60 seconds, they don’t know. They’re just going off, you can hear them looking at a website. ‘Oh, this is a firm that has offices in Washington, DC, New York, Charlotte, Chicago, Boston, yeah, nine offices in…’ And if it looks like they’re reading through a script? Bulls**t.” (29:42 | Dan)



    Links
    Connect with Dan Binstock:
    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/legalrecruiter/
    Garrison: https://g-s.com
    Lateral Partners: https://lateralpartners.com/
     
    Connect with Gary Miles:
    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-miles-aa7b28103/
    Miles Partner Placement: https://milespartnerplacement.com/
     
    Connect with Chris Batz:
    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 
    Instagram: @theliongroupllc



    Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm
     

    • 40 min
    Ep #31 Scott Love on Being a Legal Recruiter, Podcast Host, Speaker, Author, Trainer and Artist

    Ep #31 Scott Love on Being a Legal Recruiter, Podcast Host, Speaker, Author, Trainer and Artist

    What does it take to be a rainmaker? Scott Love is here to tell you. An award-winning legal recruiter, keynote speaker, author and podcast host, he’s also a former Naval officer, professional card-counting black jack player and currently a passionate painter. All of these varied experiences have taught him invaluable lessons about leadership, business development, sales and growth, and he joins Chris today to share some of these lessons. 
     
    People are always observing and firms will find any reason to disqualify people, he explains. You must give them a reason to trust you and see you as a leader. This means being humble enough to recognize what you don’t know, and be willing to learn–for the rest of your life. This develops an unshakeable sense of self and authenticity that will naturally encourage people to follow you. 
     
    He’ll share what works and doesn’t work for getting hired by law firms, especially when many are hesitant to want to grow. Cultivating yourself and being well-rounded help you define your core values and life purpose, which will set you apart as a rainmaker. 



    Quotes
    “Most of it was taking my lunch hour, and instead of watching Matlock reruns, I would watch Tony Burn training tapes. Okay, VHS tape, Steve Finkel. And I, anytime I would make a placement when I started my own thing, I would say, ‘I'm going to take 10% of my fees and invest it in coaching, seminars, books, CDs.’ Anytime there's a motivational speaker coming to town, I would go to it. Whatever they're selling, I'm buying. So that was my whole philosophy, and still to this day, there is more that I don't know than what I do know, and until that changes, I'm always going to consider myself a student.” (3:36 | Scott)
    “One thing that I learned was that if I put 100% into something, I'm gonna get 100% return. If I put 80% into something I'm gonna get about a 20% return.” (5:26 | Scott) 
    “Trust me on this. When you know exactly who you are, what motivates you and where you're going, that becomes incredibly attractive to other people. People don't want to be pushed, but they're OK following someone. So you have to become someone who is followable.” (14:20 | Scott)
    If you follow certain principles of game theory in client development, that helps you to number one, make effective decisions; number two, be effective in your execution; and number three, take the sting out of disappointment. And in business development, there is disappointment every day. That's 80% of it.” (21:04 | Scott)
    “I look for people that have leadership skills. I don't care how much time you spent in the library. Tell me what you did before. Tell me about where you were. Did you play sports? Were you a  musician? You’ve got to practice three or four hours a day as a kid without your mom telling you to do it, and you’ve got to take direction, and realize it's not all about you in a symphony. So those are the things that I think make a richer experience in life and also add to the zest of an organization.” (24:47 | Scott)
     
    Links
    Connect with Scott Love:
    Podcast: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/
    Website: https://attorneysearchgroup.com/
     
    Connect with Chris Batz:
    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 
    Instagram: @theliongroupllc



    Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm
     

    • 28 min
    Ep #30 Strategic Growth for Corporate Law Firms with Dan Binstock and Gary Miles

    Ep #30 Strategic Growth for Corporate Law Firms with Dan Binstock and Gary Miles

    Stepping into the complex world of 'magic circle' law firms, Dan Binstock from Garrison, a DC-based attorney search firm, joins forces with Gary Miles, President and CEO of Miles Partner Placement. They're back on the podcast to shed light on the strategic growth challenges and opportunities for these elite law firms. They tackle the critical need for firms to differentiate themselves in a competitive market, cautioning against unnecessary changes. The conversation also covers the recent Allen & Overy and Shearman & Sterling merger, illustrating the struggles magic circle firms face when trying to expand beyond New York.
     
    The episode takes an intriguing turn with a discussion on the closure of Stroock & Stroock & Lavan after nearly 150 years. Dan shares an insightful story that might have signaled early signs of trouble for the firm. Gary points out that ups and downs are part of a firm's life cycle, highlighting the importance of strong leadership and strategic planning.
     
    Throughout the discussion, the respect these industry experts have for each other is clear. Tune in to gain valuable insights into what lies ahead for corporate law firms.
     
    Quotes
    “I think some of the magic circle firms may not have anticipated some of the challenges in getting US partners to buy into the global platform. I think there are benefits to certain practice areas, but as a whole, it's not always the easiest sell, despite having a lot of positive elements.” (4:00 | Dan Binstock) 
    “There's one theme that usually runs through most firms: crashes. We're talking big and even small, and one thing that you can always look to is, ‘Does the firm have a succession plan for leadership? Does the firm have leadership, that is, the old terms of where they want to take the firm and grow it from the base of where it is, or is the firm leadership reacting to situations that the firm is constantly faced with in a competitive market?” (11:12 | Gary Miles)
    “I think the lesson learned is that firms shouldn't wait until things on a scale of one to 10 are at an eight and till they're being reactive, like Gary's saying, when things get to like a five or six in any situation is when the rumbling starts, you almost have to be a little bit more paranoid about the rumbling to be proactive.” (13:57 | Dan Binstock)
    “I think firms that want to be strategic and impactful in their growth really do need to figure out how they are distinguishing themselves from the herd in the marketplace. What is it about them, their infrastructure, their culture, their platform, how they internally do things that makes them different from firms XYZ?” (21:52 | Gary Miles) Audiogram
    “You never know what slogan or statement or principle that gets pulled out. If it's emphasized the right way, in the right story context, by a talented, experienced recruiter, you can never measure the impact of that.” (26:17 | Gary Miles)



    Links
    Connect with Dan Binstock:
    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/legalrecruiter/
    Garrison: https://g-s.com
    Lateral Partners: https://lateralpartners.com/
     
    Connect with Gary Miles:
    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-miles-aa7b28103/
    Miles Partner Placement: https://milespartnerplacement.com/
     
    Connect with Chris Batz:
    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 
    Instagram: @theliongroupllc
     
    Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm
     

    • 33 min

Customer Reviews

5.0 out of 5
26 Ratings

26 Ratings

Juggernaut19 ,

Great Content - Thought Provoking

My title was less than 5 words. If you listen, you get the reference. I am a partner in a defense law firm, and I listen to this podcast every morning to help me remember why I love my job.

BrianS314 ,

A great find!

Chris always has terrific guests and conversations. This podcast is a great resource for anyone in the business law community. -Brian Salmo

JMac-Miller ,

Fantastic Podcast!

I love listening to the law firm leadership podcast! Some of my favorites include interviews of Daniel Rodriguez, Andrew Glincher, and Alan Bryan. Thanks, Chris, for putting thought provoking material out there about the industry!

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