Audio Branding Jodi Krangle

“I was, like, on tour, I spent twenty hours driving all over Ohio, talking to different places. And I work from home, so I don’t drive a ton. And now I was, and I was listening to all these podcasts, and I was amazed how many times I had to ride the volume knob because somebody would be talking, and then somebody would come in and they’re much, a much lower volume. And then normally, even in a quiet room, you might be able to get away with that, but not when there’s now noise from the tires and the atmosphere. And I was just like, wow, there’s a lot of really bad audio out there. And there are tools, there’s Auphonic, there’s all sorts of things you can do to make things level. And that’s the other one besides the whole reverb room and the dog barking and things like that. Some of the stuff you can’t avoid, kids are not really... A three-year-old doesn’t care that daddy’s recording a podcast, but you can still try to bribe them with cookies or something to be quiet while you’re recording.” -- Dave Jackson
 
This episode is the second half of my conversation with pioneering podcast host, consultant, and School of Podcasting founder Dave Jackson, as we talk about building and growing your podcast, why now may be the best time in years to start a podcast, and Dave’s podcasting tips for beginners.
As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. You can also join regular Clubhouse chats in The Power of Sound House every Wednesday (check the schedule for times). Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, when new audio rooms are scheduled and what they'll be about, and it'll give you access to a resource called The Studio with lots of interesting sound-related mp3s, videos, educational pdfs, and exclusive discounts from previous guests.
If you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help – and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.
(0:00:00) – Podcasting Fundamentals and Evolution
We begin the second half of our discussion with Dave’s strategies for growing a podcast, and, most importantly, figuring out why it exists. “Is it to position myself as an expert?” he asks. “Is it part of a marketing plan of my company? Is it cheap therapy, which it is at times? You know, I just want to get the word out. I’m creative and I want to do my art man, you know that kind of thing. So you’ve got all those reasons.” Dave also shares the lessons we can learn from celebrity podcasts, the perils of what he calls "room-verb", and how AI is continuing to transform the industry. “By the time we’re done with this interview, there’ll be yet another piece of AI where you upload your audio and it’ll make a newsletter for you. It’ll transcribe it, it’ll do your laundry. It slices, dices, and makes Julienne fries.”
 
(0:13:05) - Microphone Upgrades and Audio Quality
Dave talks about his podcasting hardware and software tips, and about striking the right balance between recording the best sound at the moment vs. editing it in post-production. We also talk about how having the right microphone can be its own confidence booster. “Sometimes it’s not so much that you know your...

“And I hit play on it, and I hear ‘Hello, Dave, this is Michael Van Lahr from Nuremberg, Germany.’ I’m in the basement of my brother’s house. This is where I started. And that, which goes back to, it doesn’t matter. Just, just start. And my brother goes ‘Did he say Nuremberg, Germany?’ And I go ‘Yeah.’ And we just sat there for the longest time, just, ‘Hello, Dave. Hello, Dave.’ I’m like, and I was just like, wow, there’s somebody, I’m in the middle of Mogadore, Ohio – everyone together, ‘Where?’ Yeah, exactly. It’s me and the cows. And there’s some guy on the other side of the planet that found my stuff.” -- Dave Jackson
 
This week’s guest has been helping people understand technology for over twenty years as a trainer and consultant. He launched the School of Podcasting in 2005 and was inducted into the Podcasting Hall of Fame in 2018. He’s also the author of Profit From Your Podcast: Proven Strategies to Turn Listeners into a Livelihood, and has launched over thirty podcasts with four million downloads.
His name is Dave Jackson, and if you want to learn more about what it takes to have a compelling podcast that lasts – and I’m always interested in learning about that myself – this is the place to be. Dave’s also a musician with a unique perspective on where podcasting has been and where it’s going, and he’s pretty outspoken, so you won’t want to miss out on what he has to say.
As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. You can also join regular Clubhouse chats in The Power of Sound House every Wednesday (check the schedule for times). Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, when new audio rooms are scheduled and what they'll be about, and it'll give you access to a resource called The Studio with lots of interesting sound-related mp3s, videos, educational pdfs, and exclusive discounts from previous guests.
If you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help – and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.
 
(0:00:00) – Passion for Sound and Podcasting
We start the conversation with Dave’s early memories of sound, his start as a musician, and how tinnitus has changed both his life and his relationship with sound. “When it comes to sound,” he says, “I’m, like, I hate silence because it makes my ear-ringing, just, you know, kick into gear.” He tells us about how a surprise career change led to him to Libsyn and podcasting. “I was, like,” he explains, “if I wanted to, if I have to stand up and say ‘this is the place where you host your media,’ I’m, like, where would I go? And at the time, I was like, you know what? Libsyn. So that’s why I chose them.”
 
(0:10:43) - Improvising and Rolling With Technology Glitches
The topic turns to the lessons Dave learned as a musician about improvising and rolling with the performance punches, and how they’ve helped him grow as a podcaster. “That’s one of the things that I think podcasters don’t do enough of,” he says, “just play, like, as a musician. You spend hours in the basement, just, wood-shedden’ is what they call it.” We discuss the art of what...

“I think sound has this ability. We talked about meaning, we talked about engagement, we talked about flexibility, versatility... but I feel like people are used to visual communication. They understand that there’s logo, animation and everything is like the sign, the bottom of the page, et cetera. I feel like you add this extra layer of surprise as well, that it’s quite interesting.” -- Valentin Fleur
 
This episode is the second half of my conversation with marketing expert, sonic branding strategist, and Sixième Son managing director Valentin Fleur as we talk about the future of sonic branding, creating a stronger visual brand through sound, and what goes into a sonic logo.
As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. You can also join regular Clubhouse chats in The Power of Sound House every Wednesday (check the schedule for times). Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, when new audio rooms are scheduled and what they'll be about, and it'll give you access to a resource called The Studio with lots of interesting sound-related mp3s, videos, educational pdfs, and exclusive discounts from previous guests.
If you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help – and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.
 
(0:00:01) – The Digital Future of Sonic Branding
As the second half of our conversation starts, we talk about the rise, fall, and possible return of Meta, how AI-generated content is shaking up the creative sector, and where it all might lead. “If I had to make this comparison,” Val says, “what I like about it is it’s very well controlled, so you have defined the ingredients and the flavors, so it’s easier.” We also discuss the evolution of augmented reality as well as virtual reality, and the prospect of sonic branding in a virtual environment.
 
(0:06:04) - Enhancing Brand Identity Through Sound
Our conversation turns to the question of whether audio marketing can be manipulative, and how sonic branding can help create a genuine connection by conveying emotional subtext and layers to a message. Val tells us about an Ipsos study in 2020 that showed an eight-fold performance increase for ads with a sonic logo, and we discuss how he gains insight into a company’s brand from a variety of perspectives. “You know, some people will have worked for, like, oh, ‘I just arrived,” he explains. “That’s great, like, we want to hear your perspective because you are fresh in the organization.”
 
(0:14:12) - Creative Process in Developing Sonic Brands
Val goes on to describe how he helps a company find and create a connection with their sonic logo, considering a range of factors such as industry, market saturation, and feedback from a diverse listening committee. “That’s what the market is looking for,” he says, “a little bit more engagement, a little bit more performance, and to make sure that they can make the most of their communication investment.” We talk about his work with companies like TD and Arant Express on building a sonic brand ecosystem, and Val offers his answer to the big question: why does sound...

“I think, right now, I’ve noticed kind of two opposite trends. I don’t know if they’re opposite, but they’re very, very different. On one hand, I feel like my clients, my clients, they want to talk to their audiences for a longer period of time. They want to engage in a more conversational way. So, you know, they want to find the proper tone. We’re talking about a vocal identity. We’re talking about, they want to explain what they stand for. They want to detail their offers.” -- Valentin Fleur
 
This episode’s guest has fifteen years of experience when it comes to driving innovative brand marketing strategies and communication campaigns. Before joining Sixième Son he was a Group Account Director for Havas Paris and worked on such high-profile accounts as Mercedes-Benz and Parc Astérix. He partnered with Sixième Son for a retail brand before opening Sixième Son’s office in Canada and supervising their strategy efforts for both the North American and European markets. He manages brands all across the Americas, such as Royal Bank of Canada, Interac, Orient Express, and United HealthCare.
His name is Valentin Fleur, and with his extensive knowledge of audio branding, he’s the perfect person to talk to about the current state of audio advertising, where he feels the industry can innovate, and what might be coming in the future. So stay tuned!
As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. You can also join regular Clubhouse chats in The Power of Sound House every Wednesday (check the schedule for times). Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, when new audio rooms are scheduled and what they'll be about, and it'll give you access to a resource called The Studio with lots of interesting sound-related mp3s, videos, educational pdfs, and exclusive discounts from previous guests.
If you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help – and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.
 
(0:00:00) – The Power of Sound in Advertising
The episode starts with Val’s earliest memories of sound, from the sounds of nature in the Alps to Jimi Hendrix and the Cure on the radio, and how his creativity drew him both to advertising and exploring the power of sound in branding and behavior. “It’s funny how sound moves us in so many different ways,” he explains. “When I think about sound and when I explain what I’m doing, I tend to say that music is pure emotion and it can manage to connect you on so many different levels.”
 
(0:15:11) - Sonic Brand Evolution and Trends
We also talk about sound in advertising and how important it is to build on a core brand when it comes to sound branding. Val shares the insights he gained from his work on State Farm’s famous audio brand, and how he uses voice archetypes to guide his brand creation process. “It was this very interesting approach to sound,” he says, “and I knew from talking about the way sound affects us and gets to us, that sound was an important component to brand messaging and brand expression.”
 
(0:20:09) - Impact of Music on Shopping Behavior
The conversation turns to the...

“Why not brand the sound so people know that they’re with a certain bank? Why not make it a little bit more ‘here’s your money’, which is a little bit more successful sounding, versus ‘don’t forget your card,’ which could be a little bit more alarming sounding. But you don’t want a bank to sound like a perfect human being. You don’t want an ATM to sound like a perfect human being saying ‘Hey, Jodi, you forgot your ATM card,’ you know.” -- Laurence Minsky
 
This episode’s the second half of my discussion with author, branding expert, and media marketing professor Laurence Minsky, as we talk about the role of human voice in a world of AI, how companies can stand out in an audio-first world, and the prospect of an audio-driven, screenless future.
As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. You can also join regular Clubhouse chats in The Power of Sound House every Wednesday (check the schedule for times). Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, when new audio rooms are scheduled and what they'll be about, and it'll give you access to a resource called The Studio with lots of interesting sound-related mp3s, videos, educational pdfs, and exclusive discounts from previous guests.
If you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help – and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.
 
(0:00:01) - The Importance of Sound in Communication
The second half of our conversation starts as Laurence talks about the growth of audio-first devices and how much more convenient sound can be for consumers. “It’s getting easier and easier to put sound into everything,” as he puts it. We also talk about the increasingly blurry line between human and AI voices, and what role each might play as AI continues to evolve. “Your ears will pick up that something’s not right,” Laurence says. “So maybe in some situations that might be okay, but probably not for most connections and communications that need and want some humanity involved.”
 
(0:09:24) - The Common Misconceptions of Audio Branding
We also discuss the different techniques employed by visual branding, and how audio branding is starting to catch up. “You know,” Laurence explains about both visual and sonic logos, “What kind of font are we picking? What kind of color? The same kind of consideration should go into an audio brand.” The topic also turns to the prospect of a world where most of our devices are run by sound rather than by sight. “People get more comfortable with sound and talking to their computer,” he says, “as opposed to typing at their computer and Talking to their phone, not to a friend on the phone. I think that’s one of the few things we don’t do on our phone these days is actually talk.”
 
(0:20:06) - Voice and Audio Branding Impact
“How do you stand out,” Laurence asks, “when all you’re being, all you have, is sound, when you’re just being heard, that’s it. There’s no visual at all.... that’s part of what audio branding helps solve.” He explains the value of sonic branding in our increasingly audio-first world and the opportunities it offers to companies with a

“I was just looking at a LinkedIn post. And they’re talking about branding and strategy, and everything in there was visual. There was nothing about sound, nothing about texture, nothing about taste. And it all goes together in the brand and brand perception. But sound is so strong compared to sight. It directs. It helps direct sight. It helps interpret what you’re seeing.” -- Laurence Minsky
 
This week’s guest is a professor of advertising and social media marketing at Columbia College Chicago. His unique perspective, shaped by his early exposure to diverse music and a family deeply rooted in advertising, has fueled his success in the industry, and in our interview, he retraces his journey from being a music enthusiast to a respected advertiser, sharing captivating stories of his early interactions with sound and music. He’s an advertising, branding, and marketing consultant for many of the world’s leading brands, and the co-author of numerous best-selling marketing books, including a personal favorite of mine, Audio Branding: Using Sound to Build Your Brand.
His name is Laurence Minsky, and this is a conversation I’ve looked forward to sharing for a long time. If you’re interested in the power of sound, there’s a lot of great information in store.
As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. You can also join regular Clubhouse chats in The Power of Sound House every Wednesday (check the schedule for times). Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, when new audio rooms are scheduled and what they'll be about, and it'll give you access to a resource called The Studio with lots of interesting sound-related mp3s, videos, educational pdfs, and exclusive discounts from previous guests.
If you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help – and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.
 
(0:00:01) – Embracing the Power of Sound
We begin the episode with a look back at Laurence’s early memories of sound and his dad’s love of classic rock. “He took me to as a really, really young kid to Led Zeppelin,” Laurence recalls, “where I was, like, in the tenth-row center, so there was the stereo sound you’d hear” He also shares his first foray into audio branding, and how he discovered his enthusiasm for sound. “I was a psych major,” he says, “and I wanted to combine my interest in psychology, my interest in not just music but, you know, media and my interest in writing into one career. And advertising was it, since I knew about it.”
 
(0:11:27) - The Importance of Sound in Branding
We also discuss the power of branding, and how negative brand awareness can even overcome our firsthand impressions. “I read some research,” Laurence says, “about a large brand and pizza and, you know, in a blind taste test it scored off the charts. But then, when they put the company name on the pizza, it scored below the floor, you know, as if it was awful.” The conversation turns to the unique power sound has over visual marketing to shape a brand. “What is the definition of the brand?” he asks. “How does it get defined? What does it look like? That’s really more...