187 episodes

This podcast features David D. Burns MD, author of "Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy," describing powerful new techniques to overcome depression and anxiety and develop greater joy and self-esteem. For therapists and the general public alike!

Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy David Burns, MD

    • Mental Health

This podcast features David D. Burns MD, author of "Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy," describing powerful new techniques to overcome depression and anxiety and develop greater joy and self-esteem. For therapists and the general public alike!

    Corona Cast 2: Is this the "New Normal?"

    Corona Cast 2: Is this the "New Normal?"

    With the "Shelter in Place" orders in California, we are recording these podcasts from our homes instead of from the Murietta Studios.  The sound quality may not be as high as usual while we are learning to use the new technology. (I apologize for the echo in this week's podcast. It won't be there again-Rhonda) Let us know what you think!  Thank you, David & Rhonda
    David and Rhonda are joined again in today’s podcast by Jeremy Karmel, who is working with David on the new Feeling Great app. In our first Corona Cast, we promised to present an example of how TEAM-CBT can be helpful for individuals who feel depressed and anxious about the personal impact of the pandemic.
    Rhonda kick starts today’s session by describing her treatment with a patient we're calling Alice just a few days ago. Alice woke up feeling stressed and having trouble settling in and getting to work. If you click here, you can see how she filled out the first few steps of the Daily Mood Log just before the start of her session with Rhonda.
    The Upsetting Event was simply waking up and feeling out of sorts. She circled and rated her negative emotions, which were fairly intense, especially the feelings of depression, anxiety, inadequacy, despair, frustration. Her anxiety was only minimal, but she was also feeling tremendously "jittery."
    Why was Alice feeling so upset? Her feelings didn't result from the corona virus epidemic, but from her thoughts about it. As you can see, she was telling herself:
    1.      This could be the new normal. 2.      My life is going to waste. 3.      I should be handling this better. 4.      I could catch the virus and die. 5.      No one is in charge. She strongly believed all of these thoughts except #4, which she only believed 40%. You may recall that in order to feel upset, two things must be true:
    You must have one or more negative thoughts on your mind. You must strongly believe these thoughts. How are we going to help Alice? In the old days, I would have jumped right in to help Alice challenge her Negative Thoughts, but now we have a far more powerful and systematic approach called TEAM-CBT, as most podcast fans probably already know!
    These are the four steps of TEAM-CBT:
    T = Testing. Rhonda tested how Alice was feeling at the start and end of the session.
    E = Empathy. Rhonda provided warmth and support without trying to "help" or "cheer-lead."
    A = Assessment of Resistance. This is one of the unique aspects of TEAM-CBT, and it's the secret of ultra-rapid recovery. Rhonda used the Miracle Cure Question, Magic Button, Positive Reframing, and Magic Dial to bring Alice's "resistance" to change to conscious awareness, then quickly reduced it before trying to "help."
    M = Methods. Rhonda helped Alice identify the many cognitive distortions in her thoughts. For example, her first Negative Thought, "This could be the new normal," was an example of All-or-Nothing Thinking, Overgeneralization, Mental Filtering, Discounting the Positive, Fortune Telling, and Emotional Reasoning.
    The goal of the M = Methods phase is to crush the Negative Thoughts that  are upsetting you. Do you know how to do this? You have to come up with a Positive Thought that has two characteristics:
    It must be 100% true. Positive affirmations and rationalizations and half truths are worthless. Cognitive therapy is based on the Biblical idea the "The truth shall set you free." The Positive Thought must drastically reduce your belief in the Negative Thought you've recorded on your Daily Mood Log, and ideally your belief in it will go all the way to zero. In fact, the very instant you stop believing the Negative Thought, your feelings will change, and often quite dramatically.
    Rhonda helped Alice challenge her Negative thoughts with a powerful technique called the Externalization of Voices. For example, Alice w

    • 48 min
    Corona Cast 1: Honoring Your Angst

    Corona Cast 1: Honoring Your Angst

    With the "Shelter in Place" orders in California, we are recording these podcasts from our homes instead of from the Murietta Studios.  The sound quality may not be as high as usual until we all get the necessary recording equipment, and learn the new technology.  Please bare with us during this transition.  Thank you, David & Rhonda
    David and Rhonda are joined in today’s podcast by Jeremy Karmel, who is working with David on the new Feeling Great app, and Dr. Alex Clarke, a former student of David’s who is practicing TEAM therapy / psychiatry at the Feeling Good Institute in Mountain View, California.
    One of our loyal podcast fans, Phil McCormack, sent a heartwarming email which read, in part:
    In light of the pandemic taking us into uncharted territories, I thought it might be interesting to hear of some tips from you that would help folks deal with the situation, kind of like the David’s Top Ten Tips podcast but this one focused on the hysteria which is prevalent as I write. I’m sure your fans would appreciate it and it might be a good jump start for your new book and app, both called Feeling Great.
    I realize you are incredibly busy and don’t expect an answer. And if you want to tell me to screw myself, I can use your techniques to handle that!
    I responded like this:
    Thanks, Phil. I’m trying to put together at least two or three podcasts on the coronavirus from a variety of perspectives! Might read you question to kick start the first one we do, if that’s okay. david
    Phil immediately shot back this email:
    You’re an animal! I have no idea of where you get all your energy and motivation–obviously your techniques work (drug free!) so that must be part of it!
    Kudos to you for all your effort. It is so, so much appreciated!! I sincerely hope you someday get the recognition you deserve!!! I think Feeling Great might be your ticket... Hope so.
    Please feel free to read question and thanks for not telling me to “screw myself!” Really appreciate that!
    Phil
    How cool is that!
    Rhonda and I are planning several podcasts on this important topic including today’s as well as a podcast on how Rhonda used TEAM to help a woman with severe feelings of depression, anxiety, inadequacy, despair and frustration about the current corona crisis in a single session.
    We are also planning podcasts on how to communicate with friends and loved ones during the crisis, as well as a survey to assess changes in mood (depression, anxiety, anger, relationship satisfaction and happiness) since the corona virus hit, and possibly  more. When the survey is ready, we’ll announce it and send you a link in case you’d like to let us know how you've been feeling, and how your feelings might have changed since the virus hit!
    Rhonda kick starts today’s session by reading a list of negative thoughts from folks who are freaked out about the corona virus, including these:
    Negative Thoughts with Probable Cognitive Distortions
    The world will turn into an apocalypse. I’ll be a carrier and won’t know it and then I'll infect my partner and children who will get really sick. I’m divorced and I think my ex- will try to keep me from my kids. She won’t be as vigilant as I am about keeping our kids healthy. They’ll get sick and infect me. I’m looking for a job right now, but no one will be hiring for a long time and I’ll never get a job. I won’t have enough money to pay my rent and I’ll be evicted from my apartment and end up homeless (or) my business will go out of business. I won't have enough money to have fun for several months. My parents will contract the virus, especially one of my parents who has some chronic health stuff, and get really sick or die. I’m going to get cabin fever. I will lose a sense of self/connection to reality with how surreal everything is. People in my life will die from the virus. *

    • 46 min
    184: What Comes First? Negative Thoughts or Feelings? Solving the Chicken vs. the Egg Problem, and More!

    184: What Comes First? Negative Thoughts or Feelings? Solving the Chicken vs. the Egg Problem, and More!

    Today, Rhonda and David answer several challenging questions submitted by listeners like you.
    What schools of therapy are embedded in TEAM? Do negative feelings cause negative thoughts? Or do negative thoughts cause negative feelings? Or both? Or neither? “Can TEAM-CBT help bipolar patients during the depressed phase?” How do you make Externalization of Voices work? I get stuck! For example, my patient said, "It's unfair that I cannot get a job!" Is there a cure for OCD? 1. What schools of therapy are embedded in TEAM?
    Dear Dr. Burns,
    I have some questions specifically about T.E.A.M. therapy. You mention in a blog post that T.E.A.M. therapy "integrates features and techniques from more than a dozen schools of therapy." I'm aware of many of the CBT techniques you use, but I don't think I've read yet of any technique belonging to any other schools of therapy. Would you be so kind as to mention such techniques?
    Madelen
    Hi Madelen,
    This is important because I believe we need to get away from competing schools of therapy and need to create a new, data-driven structure for therapy based on research on how therapy works, which is what TEAM is. At the M = Methods part of the session, you can include methods from any school of therapy.
    Here are some of the schools of therapy that I draw upon TEAM-CBT.
    Individual / Interpersonal downward arrow: same (psychoanalytic / psychodynamic) Flooding / Experimental technique: behavior therapy (exposure) Externalization of Voices: Gestalt / Psychodrama / Buddhism Acceptance Paradox: Buddhism Self-Defense Paradigm: REBT CBA / Paradoxical CBA / Devil’s Advocate: Motivational techniques Identify the distortions / examine the evidence: cognitive therapy Empathy: Rogerian (humanistic) therapy Five Secrets / Forced Empathy: Interpersonal therapy Shame-Attacking Exercises: Humor-based therapy / Buddhism Be Specific / Let’s Define Terms: Semantic Feared Fantasy: Role-Playing / Psychodrama / Exposure One-Minute Drill / Relationship Probe: Couple’s Therapy Time Projection / Memory Rescripting: Hypnotherapy Anti-Procrastination Sheet: Behavioral activation therapy (Lewinsohn-type therapy) Brief Mood Survey / Evaluation of Therapy Session: data-driven therapy Talk Show Host / Smile and Hello Practice / Flirting Training: Modeling / teaching effective social behavior Storytelling: indirect hypnosis. Positive Reframing: Paradoxical psychotherapy. Hidden emotion technique: psychoanalytic / psychodynamic Do you need more? Can provide if you want. Let me know why you have this particular interest!At any rate, I really enjoyed and appreciate your thoughtful questions, thanks!David 2. Do negative feelings cause negative thoughts? Or do negative thoughts cause negative feelings? Or both? Or neither?
    Hello Dr Burns,
    I would like to thank you for your podcasts. I greatly enjoy listening to them and find them very much helpful both in my personal life and my work as a psychologist.
    I do have a question: you talk about how cognitive distortions cause anxiety and depression. Are cognitive distortions also a result of depression and anxiety? For instance, if a person was to become depressed after experiencing loss, would they then discount the positive in their lives to a larger extent, for example?
    Thank you very much!
    Audrey
    Hi Audrey,
    Yes, depression creates a negative bias in perceptions, so you pick out information and details that support your distorted thoughts, like "I'm a loser" or "my case is hopeless." My research, which I'll report in my new book, Feeling Great (sept 2020) indicates that negative thoughts trigger feelings of depression and anxiety, which, in turn trigger more negative thoughts. This is a negative vicious cycle. There is also a positive cycle, in that positive thoughts that you believe to be true trigger positive feelings, which, in turn trigger more positi

    • 39 min
    183: Tough Conversations about Racial Bias. Yikes! Do We HAVE TO Talk About This?

    183: Tough Conversations about Racial Bias. Yikes! Do We HAVE TO Talk About This?

    Today, Rhonda and David talk about how to give potentially hurtful feedback when you sense racial bias in a friend or colleague. She describes an incident in her office where the glass coffee table in her waiting room was found smashed and shattered when her office mate "Steve" (not his real name) arrived Monday morning. Although many people, including the cleaning crew, had used the office over the weekend, Steve asked Rhonda to discuss the broken table with someone who uses her office on the weekends, Kenya.  Kenya is African American, and a highly esteemed professional and beloved friend and colleague of Rhonda's.  Rhonda thought there was implicit bias being played out in this situation but did not know how to discuss it with Steve.
    But how can she convey these feelings to her office mate, who conveyed the impression that a black man must be the one who broke the table?
    David suggests one of the advanced communication techniques called "Changing the Focus" discussed and demonstrated in a previous podcast #158.  They illustrate how to apply that method to the current situation, and struggle a bit along the way!
    David reiterates the story of when he was accused of being racist at a psychotherapy workshop near the Texas / Mexico border, and how his own teachings in that very workshop saved the day for him. He emphasizes that it can be so painful to be accused of racist tendencies, or to discover them in yourself, and that this is another case where the cover-up is far worse than the crime!
    David and Rhonda

    • 34 min
    182: Ask David-Are Negative and Positive Distortions Bad? Treating an Existential Crisis. Agreeing with Unfair Criticisms

    182: Ask David-Are Negative and Positive Distortions Bad? Treating an Existential Crisis. Agreeing with Unfair Criticisms

    Today, Rhonda and David answer three great questions submitted by listeners like you.
    I am confused about the terms, negative and positive distortions. Help! “How do you treat an “existential crisis?” Can you use the Five Secrets with someone in a hypo-manic state? Won’t agreeing with their accusations just make things worse?  1. I am confused about the terms, negative and positive distortions.
    Dear Dr. Burns,
    I do have one question about terms I have heard on the podcast. The terms that confuse me are "negative distortions" and "positive distortions." I think I understand that they are both "bad" distortions, but the  positive distortions are distortions related to moods or thoughts that are unhealthily high or "up," such as in mania or narcissism. And negative distortions are the ones related to lower mood states/depression. Is this correct? I don't know if it is a brain thing, but even though I think I understand the concepts, my brain still seems to automatically think of positive distortions as good, and so I become quite confused when trying to understand how to fight them or help someone else fight them . . .
    Thank you again, so much, for all of your hard work on the podcast, as well as your diligence in training therapists in your TEAM model. I am a super-fan of the model already after only a week or so of listening! And the Five Secrets have challenged me to examine my communication abilities much more honestly and helped me in several important interactions already (even as a novice making many mistakes😬).
    Thank you, thank you, thank you!
    Please also tell Fabrice and Rhonda many thanks for all of their hard work and excellence as well. They both bring such gifts and refreshing honesty, brilliance  and genuineness to the discussions. I especially admire Rhonda for sharing her personal work. Such powerful and transformative stuff! It gives me hope that someday I might be a fraction as brave to DO that kind of work, much less share it openly with others for their benefit. What a generous as well as brave thing to do! I feel so hopeful and encouraged to know there are therapists like you, Fabrice, and Rhonda helping people to heal from vast amounts of mental and emotional suffering. I can't wait for TEAM to be as commonly known everywhere as CBT is now. Sign me up to volunteer for any promotional efforts if that is ever needed! For now, I will continue to tell everyone, including quite a few other counselor friends, about the podcast and the TEAM model.
    Sincerely,
    A new super-fan podcast listener,
    Holly Miller
    Hi Holly, Many people are confused, so this is a great question! Rhonda and I will gladly discuss this on our podcast. And thanks for your kind words!
    david 
    2. Can you use the Five Secrets with someone in a hypo-manic state? Won’t agreeing with their accusations just make things worse?
    Hi David and Rhonda,
    Thank you so much for the podcast. I have been an avid listener since the early days of the podcast, and it has helped me through very difficult times and still is.
    My question is related to my relationship with my future to be divorcee. She is at times in a hypo mania state due to her bipolar illness (which is diagnosed and treated).
    Is it possible to use the five secrets of effective communication with someone who is in a state of hypo mania? I feel that agreeing with unreasonable accusations and complains is not helping at all and only causes her to hold to these claims.
    I know that you usually like to relate to specific correspondence but it is more of a general question.
    I hope you can give me some guidelines on what works and what doesn’t.
    Thanks!
    Al
    Hi Al,
    The devil is in the details. Can you provide a specific example of one thing she said, and exactly what you said next, that you need some help with? General questions about the Five Secrets are NEVER productiv

    • 48 min
    181: LIve Therapy with Sarah: Shrinks are Human, Too!

    181: LIve Therapy with Sarah: Shrinks are Human, Too!

    In my workshops and weekly training group for community therapists at Stanford, we often include personal work as a part of the training. The personal work can help in several ways:
    When you’ve successfully done your own personal work, you will feel greater joy and energy in your personal life and in your clinical work as well. You will have a much deeper understanding of how TEAM-CBT actually works. You will be able to deliver faster and deeper therapy to your patients. You’ll be able to tell your patients, “I know how you feel, because I’ve been there myself. And what a joy it’s going to be to show you the way out of the woods, too!” Those who observe the therapy develop a greater understanding of how the fine points of effective therapy. When the person in the “patient” role has a profound change, we all share that joy and feel inspired by the miracles that can often be accomplished in a relatively short period of time. As they say, “seeing is believing.” Rhonda recently surveyed some of our listeners about live therapy we sometimes offer on our podcasts—do you prefer to have the live therapy presented all at once, in an extended, two-hour podcast, or split up over two or more podcasts with expert commentary along the way?
    Our listeners were split on this. So today we are presenting an actual and dramatic therapy session in its entirely. If you don’t have two hours to listen all at once, you can stop after an hour or so, and then return to the last portion when you have more time.
    And please let us know what you think of this live therapy podcast format!
    In today’s session, we are very grateful to Sarah, a certified TEAM-CBT therapist, for allowing us to share her very personal and powerful session with you. Sarah was having intense anxiety during her sessions with patients, and her anxiety was bordering on panic.
    This is actually not unusual. In my experience, most shrinks struggle with feelings of insecurity from time to time. But when we shrinks experience insecurities, we often feel strong shame as well, telling ourselves that we “should” have it all together because we are supposedly “experts.”
    I’m no exception! I can remember how anxious I used to feel on Sundays when I was starting out in private practice. I’d tell myself, “Wow, I’m going to have all of these high-powered patients tomorrow, and what if they notice that I don’t actually know what I’m doing half of the time!?”
    But then, halfway through Monday morning, it would dawn on me that my patients didn’t seem to notice or care about my flaws, and I’d relax!
    Although Sarah brought a Daily Mood Log to the session, listing all of the negative thoughts that were triggering her anxiety, along with many other intense negative feelings, the session took an unexpected turn in the direction of the Hidden Emotion Model.
    We’ve done several podcasts on this powerful technique before, and now you have the chance to see how it works first-hand! Instead of challenging Sarah’s negative thoughts, as we usually do, we asked whether there was something bothering Sarah that she wasn’t telling us about, due to her arguably excessive “niceness.”
    I think you’ll enjoy listening, and you may learn a little, too! My co-therapists for this session included Dr. Rhonda Barovsky, my beloved and brilliant podcast host, as well as Kevin Cornelius, MFT, a fabulous TEAM therapist whom I’ve recently featured in a recent blog!
    Rhonda and I want to thank you, Sarah, once again, for your tremendous courage and generosity!
    David and Rhonda

    • 1 hr 55 min

Customer Reviews

GA j bird ,

Steps along the journey

This podcast has become a huge stepping stone in my journey to understanding that I have no self. Dr. Burns help with how we can find conscious motivation to change and adjust subconscious, knee jerk reactions is enlightening.

Hhhfiokcma ,

Geared toward therapists, yet useful to layperson

I haven’t read the book(s), so after listening to a dozen episodes I feel I’d get more out of this podcast if I did. I have been challenged by the podcast, I think now as I write the review that it is stressful to not have the book understanding. I feel scared because I only have the part of story of the TEAM method and Burn’s assistance. I’m going to borrow the book now.

HerpesMcGerpes ,

I’m hooked!

I’m a clinical psychologist who has been looking for a solid therapy podcast. I was recommended this by a colleague and was hooked after the first episode. An incredibly valuable resource for clinicians, clients, and anybody in between. Keep up the amazing work!

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