Fieldnotes - Dogs in Our World

Adam Winston
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Fieldnotes is where science, story, and lived experience converge. Explore podcast episodes, articles, and resources that deepen our understanding of dogs through empathy, behavior, and advocacy.

Episodes

  1. FEB 1

    Special Report: Dogs and Sport

    Explore Our Services Episode Summary In this special report episode, we explore the captivating world of sheepdog trials at the Vashon Sheepdog Classic. Through interviews with competitors, organizers, and handlers, we uncover the deep bond between humans and their working dogs, the skill and dedication required for this unique sport, and the community it fosters. This episode offers a vivid glimpse into a tradition that combines teamwork, trust, and the joy of working with animals. Read on for key takeaways, resource links, and the full transcript. Key Takeaways Sheepdog trials showcase the incredible partnership between handlers and their dogs, emphasizing communication and trust over long distances. The sport requires years of dedicated training and a deep understanding of both dog behavior and livestock management. Competitions like the Vashon Sheepdog Classic have historical roots dating back to the 1870s and continue to inspire new generations. Working dogs fulfill innate instincts and provide meaningful engagement, benefiting both the animals and their handlers. The community around sheepdog trials is supportive and passionate, bringing together people from diverse backgrounds. Resources & Links Amazon YouTube Discord RSS Feed Google Instagram LinkedIn Spotify TikTok Twitch Vashon Sheepdog Classic Follow Ian Caldicott and Goose Field Notes Episode Page- The Dogs in Our World podcast Episode Transcript Show Transcript Introduction While visiting Vashon Island to interview Temple Grandin for the last episode, I witnessed something spectacular when I was there. It was so impressive and fitting for this show that I had to grab my new microphone and share the experience with you. In this episode, I’m going to take you to a competition and festival called the Vashon Sheepdog Classic. The annual event is a breathtaking display of the dog-human connection. So, in this Special Report of Dogs in Our World, we’re going to learn about the fascinating world of Sheepdog Trials and the people and dogs involved with this sport. I’ll tell you more in a second. Let’s get into it. Part 1: BTS at the Vashon Sheepdog Classic I was recently on this sort of working vacation and trying to record that Temple Grandin interview you heard last episode. I knew there was this sheepdog herding competition happening, on the island, the same weekend. I didn’t know what to expect, but of course I had to check it out. What I saw soon after arriving to the Vashon Sheepdog Classic was something so spectacular that I can’t explain it well enough myself. So, on the last day of the 4-day festival, I loaded up my recording gear and went behind the scenes of my first sheepdog competition. Not only was watching the handlers and dogs work together a beautiful thing, but the venue itself was breathtaking. The competition takes place on these rolling, beautiful fields with the most colorful trees and sky as a backdrop. And the people were so cool. (SB 1) 00:24 Maggie: I’m Maggie McClure, and I’m the executive director of the Sheepdog Classic. I kind of ambushed her with my microphone as she was tending to the sheep among many other responsibilities. She was, however, kind enough to agree to an interview in the middle of her bustling festival. (SB 2) 12:21 Maggie: It’s just a spectacular backdrop for what we do. Uh, spectators, they can have an opportunity to, uh, almost be within the course. Just the natural amphitheater feeling of the spectator area allows them to actually be right above the work and see what’s going on. Bed – Cue Nat Sound of Ian’s Trial – The competitor and their dog are a significant distance from one another. It’s better if Ian explains. He worked from sunup to sundown, not only competing but working the field. If this competition were a music festival, Ian and his dog are kind of like the all-in-one stage manager and musician. (SB) Nat Sound 2:20 Announcer: Good job Ian and Goose (cheers). They work extra hard. (SB 3) 00:06 Ian: My name is Ian Caldicott. I’m one of the handlers; I’m also in charge of the set-out crew. Adam: Alright, and what’s the set-out crew? Ian: We’re the people who put the sheep out on the field for everybody’s run. He can better explain what the actual competition entails … (SB 4) 00:26 Ian: the whole course involves sending the dogs down about 400 yards to gather up a bunch of five sheep, bring them down the field through a set of gates, down to where you’re standing, around a post, out oh about 150 yards through a set of gates, across the field through a third set of gates, back to a circle that’s marked with little sandbags where you got to split the sheep into two groups, then put them back together again, and put them into a pen. Adam: How did you end up here? Ian: Um, I’ve been coming for years to this event. Adam: Why? Ian: Um, it’s one of the more challenging courses that we see, and for a lot us that’s what it’s about, it’s finding new challenges for the dogs. Maggi McClure explained to me that she believes competitions like the Vashon Sheepdog Classic began back in the 1870’s on the Scottish-Welsh border. In my research for this episode, I’m learning about early dog trialing competitions that were also first held around the same time in New Zealand and Australia. (SB 5) 2:59 – FADE In – Maggi: … and it was basically shepherds, uh showcasing the work of their dog and the abilities of their dog so, you know, they get bragging rights and potentially breeding rights if, you know, if you see a dog that you think, “Wow, if I cross that talent with the talent that I have at home, maybe I will produce a dog that’s going to be handy to me on my farm or ranch in the future.” So, the breeding isn’t about how they look, it’s about their work ethic, it’s about the method in which they handle their livestock, it’s about the temperament of the dog and how helpful it’s going to be. So, if you have a dog that’s lacking in one department, well then maybe you find a dog who can fill that gap and, and make a stronger dog. Adam: How did you get into this? Maggi: Umm, well … I had a border collie uh that I got from a friend who, who was very active in this sport. Um … and I got that dog to be an agility dog. I was very deep into competing with my dogs in agility and wanted to take it up a notch and get a faster dog and this and that and so I rescued this border collie from a friend and he just really didn’t do well with agility. So, we tried and we tried and then I thought well for bonding purposes uh maybe we should go try this and experience some sheep and uh see if we can encourage our own relationship to be better for the for agility. But once I went out and gave it a try, I pretty much went from teaching agility three days a week and competing every weekend, I just dropped it and just moved on to doing this and I got hooked and done. You know? That was 23 years ago. During the timed trial the competitors stand back near the judges table and communicate to their dogs all the way out on the field by whistling. It was a real spectacle watching these dogs run full speed, then turn on a dime as a new whistle traveled to their attentive ears from across the distance of three football fields. Here’s me talking to Ian as his dog “Goose” keeps a watchful eye on both him and the field …. (SB 6) 5:16 Adam: Can you try to explain to me what these whistles … these calls are? Ian: Sure, the whistles are basically just variations of the voice commands that we use … the whistle carries much further. So instead of having to shout and scream for the dogs to hear us a long way off, the whistle carries better … And everybody has different whistles. I have two different sets because I work two dogs at the same time. Adam: So, that was actually going to be my next question. Does everybody use the same kind of whistle … or people have their own unique personal ones just between them and their dog? Ian: Yeah, there are kind of some fairly common sets, but basically, it’s their personal choice. Adam: Is this a bad time for you to do some of those whistles? Ian: I see nobody on the field, so no … we can do it now. Ian: I can give you some of Goose’s … The most obvious one is “to stop.” (whistle) And then for him to “go forward.” (whistle) And then for him to “go clockwise.” (whistle) And then for him to “go counterclockwise.” (whistle) Adam: I had no idea that you’re actually using a device to make those whistles. I thought you guys were using your fingers. … Sorry if we confused you, Goose. Come on back, Goose. Goose has his own following. Ian said he met folks who came out just to see Goose compete. I’m not kidding. You can follow Goose’s career on Ian’s website which is wolston.com. That’s w-o-1-s-t-o-n.com. As always, we’ll add a research link to this episode page at dogsinourworld.com. Ok. Moving on. I was so impressed with the obedience and control these dogs demonstrated when out on the field herding sheep. The handlers made it looks so easy, but as a dog trainer, I can’t imagine the amount of time and effort it takes to get to this level. (SB 7) 15:00 Adam: How do you train a dog to do this? They’re, they’re, they’re yards and yards away. Maggi: Oh, I know. Well, you start close where you can have an impact on the dog and have a conversation with the dog. Um, I’ve had, I mean I was a clicker trainer for 25 years, so I have a background in how to utilize marker based training and in a way, we do a bit of that, but we don’t use a sound marker, like a clicker. Um, we’re not using treats. The dogs are motivated to do this, so the motivational factor is not play, praise, touch. It’s work. So, the work is the piece that matters the most, so we don’t necessarily do anything that I’d call positive reinforcement. Um, we use a lot of what is

    30 min

  2. JAN 9

    Temple Grandin: Dogs and Autism

    Explore Our Services Episode Summary In this special episode of the Dogs in our World podcast, Field Notes, Adam Winston interviews Dr. Temple Grandin, a renowned expert in animal science and autism awareness. Dr. Grandin shares insights from her personal experience with autism and her extensive work in animal behavior. The episode explores the parallels between autism and animal cognition, the importance of early intervention, and the therapeutic role dogs can play for individuals on the autism spectrum. Read on for key takeaways, resource links, and the full transcript. Key Takeaways Autism spectrum: personal insights and scientific perspectives Sensory processing and repetitive behaviors in animals and humans The human-animal bond and therapeutic benefits of dogs Responsibility and life skills development for individuals with autism Resources & Links Amazon YouTube Discord RSS Feed Google Instagram LinkedIn Spotify TikTok Twitch templegrandin.com Temple Grandin’s books on Amazon Field Notes episode page Episode Transcript Show Transcript Introduction Adam (0:23): Here we are, episode number six of Dogs in Our World. To celebrate the halfway point of this twelve-part series, I have a phenomenal guest to share with you. Temple Grandin is one of the biggest names in the worlds of animal science and autism awareness. She recently traveled to Vashon, Washington for a weekend of lectures and visits around the island and was kind enough to start her trip with us. If you haven’t heard of Dr. Grandin, I recommend the 2010 Emmy Award-winning HBO movie titled Temple Grandin and starring Claire Danes. In this very special episode of Dogs in Our World, Dr. Grandin tells us a bit about herself and offers advice to those of us who have a family member with an autism label. She also helps me better understand the autism spectrum, dogs, and the importance of volunteers in an animal shelter. All that and more in this nearly unedited conversation with Dr. Temple Grandin. Part 1: Introduction and Insights on Autism Adam (1:35): And continue to tell me a little more about yourself, please. Dr. Grandin (1:38): Well, I’ve been at Colorado State University for twenty-six years, and I’m teaching a class in livestock behavior and cattle handling. I’ve done a lot of work with the meat industry to improve humane treatment of animals. I’ve got some books on animal behavior: Animals in Translation, Animals Make Us Human, both available on Amazon. I have a lot of books on livestock. I’ve got Humane Livestock Handling for large ranches, and I’ve just come out with a new one that’s got beautiful photographs. It would be really good for 4-H kids on handling cattle, pigs, sheep and goats. It’s called Temple Grandin’s Guide to Working with Farm Animals. That just came out. And then I’ve got textbooks, Improving Animal Welfare: A Practical Approach. If you’re really into science, I’ve got Genetics and the Behavior of Domestic Animals, but that’s an expensive textbook. Adam (2:26): Anything else that people might know you for? Dr. Grandin (2:28): I do a lot of talks on autism, because when I was a young child, I had all the full-blown symptoms of autism. No speech, didn’t talk until I was age four. Fortunately, I had very good early therapy. I can’t emphasize enough. If you have a young kid who’s not talking, you’ve got to start working with him. Teaching him how to talk, teaching him turn-taking. These kids have got to learn how to wait and take their turns. Autism goes from somebody who remains nonverbal and maybe has trouble dressing themselves, all the way up to Thomas Edison and Einstein. Einstein didn’t talk until age three. It’s a big, big, big continuum. See, a little bit of autism, you’ve gotta socially awkward person who may be just absolutely brilliant in the tech industry. Too much of that trait, and you’ve got a, you know, severe handicap. And there’s a parallel with animals. I read a fascinating study that was done over in Europe, looking at differences between wolves and dogs. And a brain can either be more social-emotional, or it can be more cognitive and thinking. And we’ve bred the dog to be super social-emotional towards us. And in a test that was done in Europe, they had a wolf watch another wolf open up a puzzle box to get some food. And the wolf does it easily. But, the domestic dog is so busy asking us for help and looking for us for help, it doesn’t pay enough attention to open the box. I also found another fascinating journal article on more social animals versus more solitary animals. Like, for example, lions are more social than panthers. And again, there are parallels here with autism. Now, are panthers defective? Absolutely not. You see, in the mild forms it’s just normal variation. A brain can be more thinking or a brain can be more social-emotional. Adam (4:19): Is it possible that animals could experience autism? Dr. Grandin (4:23): Well, if you put an animal in a very deprived environment, you can start getting repetitive behavior that resembles some of the repetitive behavior that many autistic kids do. And one of the reasons why sometimes autistic kids do repetitive behavior, is they do it to shut out an onslaught of sensory overstimulation. When I was a little kid, we used to go on a ferry, just like ferry you got here. And when the horn went off, I’d fling myself on the deck and start screaming, ’cause it hurt my ears. Today, I’m happy to say, I was right there in front of the horn and all I did was flinch a little bit. But when I was a little kid, it was like a dentist drill going into a nerve and so I’d do the repetitive behavior to block out some of these things. A dog that you keep locked up in a kennel all the time gets kind of stir crazy. You’ll have a lion that will pace. I’m not going to say that’s autism, but it’s one of ah symptoms that you see in both of situations. Adam (5:16): So, I work in an animal shelter and in, what’s the a, what’s the real word for it? Stereoptic behavior? Dr. Grandin (5:22): That’s called stereotypic. You know what dogs in an animal shelter need? I have a student, former student, Krista Coppola. Her PhD thesis work, and we’ve got it published in the Physiology & Behavior journal, and Krista found that dogs that she played with, you know, for forty-five minutes had lower salivary cortisol compared to the dog just chucked into the kennel. So what do animals in an animal shelter need? Each dog needs a volunteer to come in for thirty, forty-five minutes a day. Quality play and fun time with a person. Dogs need people. And I’ve gone into kind of junky animal shelters, they’re all chain link fence, that had a really good volunteer program and you didn’t have all the barking. What dogs in kennels that don’t get enough contact with people go crazy. Adam (6:13): And are you saying you see a parallel between some of these repetitive behaviors with animals that have spent too much time in their enclosure, and there’s a parallel to the repetitive behaviors that we see with people with autism sometimes? Dr. Grandin (6:25): Well people with autism do it because the sensory environment is overstimulating. So they do it to block out an overstimuli. The dog does it due to the lack of stimulation. Adam (6:37): I see. Dr. Grandin (6:38): You see, it’s like a different cause. Adam (6:39): I see. Dr. Grandin (6:40): But the behaviors have similarities. Now when I was a little kid, my parents would let me do a half an hour, an hour a day of some repetitive behavior, and that would help calm me down. But the problem is, if you let the kid do it all the time, he’s not going to develop. And one of the big problems I’m seeing today with kids labeled autistic, maybe ADHD, there’s a lot of crossover with ADHD, getting addicted to video games. I’m not suggesting banning video games, but they need to be severely limited to about an hour a day, and we’ve got to get these kids out doing other things. I was never allowed to become a recluse in my room. I was out doing things. Adam (7:15): Before we started recording, today … Dr. Grandin (7:17): I thought we were recording already. Adam (7:19): Well we are recording. Dr. Grandin (7:20): Ok. Adam (7:20): But before we started recording, you were asking me kind of some discovery questions. How do I know when I’m talking or working with someone who experiences autism? Dr. Grandin (7:33): Well, there’s a point it might have very mild autism, it’s just a socially awkward person. And there’s a point when that’s just normal variation. When I was out all the time working on the big construction projects with the meat industry, I worked with a lot of skilled millwrights and skilled tradespeople that I know are mildly on the autism spectrum. In its milder forms, it’s called geeks and nerds. It’s called Silicon Valley. Then you get into the more severe forms, you can end up with somebody, no matter how much therapy they get, cannot dress themselves. You see, it’s a continuum of traits. Mild forms just part of normal variation. Now the thing the person needs is kind of socially awkward, is they have to be taught social skills, like training sombody in a foreign country. You can’t take anything for granted. You have to explain to them that they should be saying please and thank you. You have to show them how to shake hands. Demonstrate the distance that people stand away from each other. If they call a colleague stupid, you need to pull them aside and explain that’s simply not ok. Fortunately there were some people that did that with me. Now, a lot of the people of my generation, the geeks and nerds, ended up going into good careers. One of the reasons for that is social rules were taught in a much more rigid way in the 50’s and 60’s than they are now. And the autistic kids are having a lot more problems w

    29 min

  3. 11/01/2025

    Julie Forbes: Dogs & Leadership

    Explore Our Services Episode Summary In this episode of Dogs in Our World, host Adam Winston sits down with Julie Forbes, host and producer of the Dog Show with Julie Forbes, to explore the theme of “Dogs and Leadership.” Julie shares her extensive experience in dog training and behavior, emphasizing the importance of non-verbal communication, presence, and emotional tone in effective leadership with dogs. They discuss common misconceptions about leadership styles, including the outdated “alpha” model, and highlight the value of motivation, fun, and individualized approaches tailored to each dog’s unique temperament and needs. Julie and Adam also explore how lessons learned from working with dogs can translate to human leadership and personal growth. The episode concludes with a focus on self-awareness, authenticity, and the power of being present, offering listeners practical wisdom to enhance their relationships with their dogs and others. Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own leadership styles and consider how they can foster healthier, more respectful connections with their canine companions. The episode also provides information on where to listen to Julie’s Dog Show and invites the audience to stay connected through Dogs in Our World’s social channels and newsletter. Read on for key takeaways, resource links, and the full transcript. Key Takeaways Leadership with dogs requires awareness of non-verbal communication and presence. The outdated “alpha” dominance model is misleading; a parental leadership approach is healthier. Every dog is unique; leadership and motivation must be tailored to individual temperaments and needs. Fear is an ineffective motivator; positive motivation and fun foster better learning and relationships. Setting a calm and consistent emotional tone is key to effective leadership Resources & Links Amazon YouTube Discord RSS Feed Google Instagram LinkedIn Spotify TikTok Twitch The Dog Show with Julie Forbes — Julie’s radio show and podcast with over 400 episodes. Sensitive Dog — Julie Forbes’ dog training and behavior consulting website. Episode Transcript Show Transcript Introduction Welcome to episode number five of Dogs in Our World. We’re going learn about the topic of Dogs and Leadership. Stay tuned at the end of today’s show for some special announcements I have to share with you about upgrades and new offerings from dogsinourworld.com Ok. The first part of today’s show will revisit a familiar term you may remember from our first episode and we’ll also better understand why leadership is necessary. In part 2, we’ll talk about the importance of motivation and we’ll briefly address another JULIE FORBES: DOGS AND LEADERSHIP 5 58 huge debate in the dog training world, and we’ll learn about the importance of having fun. In the final part of today’s show, our guest will share with us ways that we can position ourselves to be better leaders. Ok. Let’s get started… Part 1: Understanding Leadership and Dogs Part 1: Dogs and Leadership Julie: My name is Julie Forbes. I’m the host and producer of the Dog Show with Julie Forbes, which is a local radio show here in Western Washington and also a podcast on iTunes and on our website, which is dogradioshow.com, SoundCloud, and on our Facebook page. I’ve been on-air for 8 years, I think, now. It was 2009. Adam: I actually did the math. I looked at your website and, yes, and I did the math. It’s been 8 years. Julie: 424 episodes I think. It’s so fun. Like you, I like to talk about dogs. And, it’s interesting, because a lot of times people will ask “it’s an hour show? don’t you run out of things to talk about?” Actually, it’s the opposite. The more people that I talk with, the more there is to talk about. It’s an educational show. Sort of an intellectual conversation, but all somehow connected to dogs. I also work locally here in Seattle and somewhat via skype helping people with training and behavior. My company is called sensitive dog. Adam: And do you have a website? Julie: sensitivedog.com. Adam: Do you have any other books or anything that the listeners can check out if they want to learn more about you? Julie: So, I am just about finished writing my first book. It’s been almost 5 years of working and researching on it. And, it’s really truly just about done. I’ve said that many times over the years. It’s a humbling experience writing a book. But, I’m excited about that and it’s a bit of a hybrid of the book. I weave my years of experience working with people and their dogs. And, also my own personal experience as a human being. As well as research that I did mostly on leadership, which is what we’ll be talking about today. And, what dogs can teach us about leadership and ourselves. Because they’re non-verbal, to be effective with dogs, we have to be aware of our non-verbal communication, which means being aware of and in our bodies, which is not a given for people. Our relationship with our bodies is complex as well. It’s geared more towards women, but the conversation certainly isn’t. So, it’s been a challenge to weave all that information together in a way that makes sense and that’s what I finally figured out. As Julie and I began our conversation, she immediately addressed a topic that should be familiar to our listeners. Remember when Erik, from Wolf Haven International, and I talked about the term Alpha and how viewing ourselves or dogs as such can essentially lead to an unbalanced relationship? I also said that the subject is nearly unavoidable when learning about dogs. Here’s Julie’s take… Julie: Well, working with dog behavior sort of requires a focus on the topic of leadership and really the question of it. Because, in this industry, and I’m sure you know with your experience in training as well, the industry is not regulated. It’s trying to be regulated, but it’s not regulated for better or worse. There’s a lot of confusion and a lot of disagreement around what is right in leadership as it pertains to dogs. So, you know the word you hear a lot is “alpha”, which has a negative connotation to it now. There’s a lot of pushback, which makes perfect sense. There’s some interesting history around that as far as the ideas that were marketed in the context of our relationship with dogs and sort of looking at models of wolf packs and deriving how we should be with dogs and based off that. But, the research that was done and the model that was taken from that particular research was done on captive wolves. So, they were forced pack. And this was spelled out actually very clearly in Temple Grandin’s book Animals Make Us Human. Adam: And episode one of Dogs in Our World. (laughs) Julie: Nice. So, it’s interesting that in forced packs there is more of a rigid hierarchy that forms, because they’re not related… Julie: So, this whole idea of Alpha and this sort of ladder structure of leadership, which you can see, in this country anyway, applied everywhere. Corporations, Religion Adam: School. Julie: Exactly. And, um, and then in the dog training world. And, it’s interesting to me why the research done on captive wolves was the one marketed to the general public and not the research done on wolves in the wild. Because, imagine the difference. What a different conversation we would be in in the world of the dog training, if it wasn’t “alpha”, but more of a parental understanding. More of a parental dynamic, which we can relate to. There’s ways that can get us into trouble. Julie: Dogs aren’t human children, but there’s a lot of those dynamics that are really natural. You are responsible for your dog’s wellbeing. You are therefore the one in charge. Whether you like it or not, that is your role. They need us to be. This is a human world and lot of dogs would feel overwhelmed, if they felt like they were in charge even if they tried to be, just like kids. So, that’s kind of why did I focus on this. Because, it’s part of the conversation in coaching people in their relationship with dogs. Adam: If you’re listening, right now, and thinking to yourself “well, I don’t have a dog” or “I’m not in a position of leadership”. Then, I want you think about how nearly every time Julie mentions the word “dogs” in this episode about Leadership, you can likely get away with replacing the word “dogs” with “humans”. As I’ve said before, this show is for everyone whether you have a dog or not. As we continue, think about how the stuff we’re talking about and how it can be applied to those of you who are not just dog owners, but maybe parents or employees. Adam: I really want to learn and I want to share with everybody who’s listening about how we could either be better leaders or how we can better work with those that we serve. Julie: Mmhmm. Yeah. And that alone is sort of a philosophy of leadership where you are of service to those you lead. Versus maybe a polar opposite would be a bully type style. I’m going to keep you down so that I maintain my position at the top. That’s rooted in insecurity. It’s really not authentic true leadership. I think there’s a lot more out about bullying types of leadership. It’s unfortunately effective, because it targets people that are afraid and that’s how the bully stays in power. Adam: And leadership is a skill that has to be practiced, right. If we’re someone who hasn’t had much experience as a leader or in leadership positions. Do we have to be leaders? Julie: Depends on the dogs. Some dogs don’t need much. They don’t test boundaries much. They’re just easy. They’re easy going. They don’t have much in the way of challenges. They’re happy when someone new comes over to the house. They’re not reactive on leash. The things that many dogs are challenged with. It really depends

    46 min

  4. 10/08/2025

    Adam Karp: Dogs & Law

    Explore Our Services Episode Summary In this episode, Adam Winston sits down with Adam P. Karp, a dedicated animal law attorney, to discuss the evolution of animal law, its impact on dogs and their owners, and the challenges and opportunities in this legal field. Topics include the history of animal law dating back to the Code of Hammurabi, current laws in Washington state, legal battles over animal custody, and the importance of responsible dog ownership. Read on for key takeaways, resource links, and the full transcript. Key Takeaways Animal law has ancient roots but has evolved significantly in the last 40-50 years. Dogs are legally considered property, but courts are beginning to recognize their unique status. Laws vary by jurisdiction, with some states allowing joint custody of pets in divorces. Responsible dog ownership includes managing noise, waste, and behavior to avoid legal issues. Service animal fraud is a growing concern with legal consequences. Resources & Links Amazon YouTube Discord RSS Feed Google Instagram LinkedIn Spotify TikTok Twitch Dogs in Our World Website Animal Legal Defense Fund (aldf.org) Adam P. Karp’s Book: Understanding Animal Law on Amazon Houseman vs. Dare Case Summary Episode Transcript Show Transcript Introduction Adam: Welcome to episode number four of Dogs in Our World. Today, we will learn about dogs and the law. I think there’s a little something for everyone in this show. We also have a really special featured guest for you to meet. I’m excited to finally get this episode into your ears. I think a lot of you will find something insightful in today’s installment. The first part of this show will be a very brief history and definition of animal law. The second part of this episode will look at some present-day, dog-related laws and issues. In the final part, and throughout the show, myself and our guest will share some simple tips on how all of us can be on the right side of the law and dog welfare. As always, we have a lot to cover, so let’s get started. Part 1: History and Definition of Animal Law Part 1: History and Definition of Animal Law Adam: Today’s show features someone whom I consider to be a hero. In my view, he is an animal welfare warrior. This dude is not playing. I initially set out to find someone who could teach me about Dog Law, and ended up meeting with one of the leading animal law practitioners in the United States. Karp: Full name. Adam … do you want my middle name? Adam: I don’t know. Whatever you want people to know. Karp: Adam P. Karp is fine. I run Animal Law Offices. Solo Practitioner. I’ve been practicing animal law, exclusively, for … I think this is my 19th year. Adam: Tell me about that book I saw on Amazon? Karp: So. Carolina Academic Press put out a book that’s part of a series called Understanding “something”. Right? So, Understanding Criminal Law, Understanding Bankruptcy Law, So, they created a new one called Understanding Animal Law and I was asked to write it. So, the book is about 700+ pages. Covers two-dozen or so areas of animal law. Although, that’s certainly not all. There’s probably 12-20 other topics that I could’ve covered, but there just wasn’t enough space and they weren’t going to wait any longer. So, that book really encapsulates a great deal of my experience in litigation and legal research, and will hopefully help law students and anyone who cares about animals and the law. Help them to understand what the field is about, how broad it is, and maybe incorporate it into their day-to-day. Adam: I know that there may not be a simple answer, but what is Animal Law? Karp: There are a lot of working definitions. Probably the easiest one is that something about the case turns on the life of an animal. Something about an animal. Whether it’s about how an animal is viewed in a religious sense for instance. How the animal is perceived at a genetic level. How the animal interacts with people at a social level. Something about the animal’s behavior. Whether the animal is a perpetrator, a victim …. a party (chuckles) … that’s another whole push of animal law, which is to try and recognize them as legal persons, but that’s not really what animal law is day-to-day. So, I’d say any type of case where the outcome turns on or something significant in the litigation itself turns on the life of an animal. Adam: By now, you guys should know how I do. Let’s start at the beginning and allow Mr. Karp to give us just a little background history of animal law. Karp: Well, go back to the Code of Hammurabi. Adam: What’s that? Karp: (chuckles) Middle east. Old, old codes. We’re talking hundreds and hundreds of years ago. There were laws that pertained to even veterinary malpractice. So, I think if a surgeon, an early veterinarian committed some type of malpractice involving a mule or a donkey. Adam: What years are we talking? Karp: Gosh. I’d have to look. Probably thousands of years ago. Adam: That’s ok. I’ll look it up. Adam: I looked it up on Britannica.com. The code of Hammurabi is a set of Babylonian laws from the time of King Hammurabi during the first Babylonian dynasty. This was from 1792 BC to 1750 BC. Or, in other words, they’re super old laws that are nearly 4000 years old. I guess, if you are a law student, or historian, you probably know all about them. And, apparently, the Code of Hammurabi did include laws that addressed animals. Karp: … there would be a certain number of sheckles that would be owed if there was some error made under the surgeon’s knife. And, so, way back when, thousands of years ago, there were early codes that talked about the value of animals. Adam: Really? Karp: Yeah, as a result of some type of medical error. But, I’d say that modern animal law really developed more in the last 40-50 years. Adam: Ok. Karp: So, some people look at it as a form of Cause Lawyering. No differently than civil rights lawyers, women’s rights lawyers, environmental rights lawyers, gay rights lawyers. So, there are legal movements that typically are motivated by the needs of an underserved or underrepresented group. And, there’s often a paradigm shift that develops too in the law, and also in society, when these movements sort of pick up steam. Animal Law, really, is a spinoff of the environmental law movement. Part 2: Current Laws and Issues Adam: Welcome back. In the first part of this episode, Adam P. Karp gave us a brief history and definition of animal law. Now, let’s examine animal laws here in Washington state and how they affect the dogs in our world. Or, should I say, we’ll examine how the dogs in our world affect the law. Adam: Are there any laws that are new and changing? Are there any laws that you would like to change? Karp: Some of the laws that are changing … it’s funny. I’m always amazed at the number of times that legislators float bills for dogs in bars. I don’t know why it’s so important to have non-service dogs sitting there next to you as you have a beer, but, ok. That seems to be a popular bill in Washington. The other thing I’ve seen are issues to address tethering. So, anti-tethering types of laws. Because, of course … Adam: Thank you for bringing this up. Karp: Can be considered cruel in certain circumstances. It can also increase aggression, and protectiveness, and territorialism, of the animals. But, mostly it’s an abuse type of issue. And, so, I think there are two bills currently, in this session, floating down in Olympia that deal with tethering. And one of them, I believe, is going to pass. Adam: And, what is it you mean by “tethering”? Karp: Oh, basically, like leaving a dog chained up outside, all day long, without adequate shelter. Without adequate water or food. Adam: What about when I’m going to my corner store and there’s that big dog leashed to the sign next to the front door there. Is that legal? Just to tie your dog up in front of the store as you go in and shop? Karp: Oh. It depends what jurisdiction. So, in the City of Seattle, the dog would be considered at-large. Because, the dog needs to be, basically, tied to your hand. It can’t be tied to an inanimate object or a post. Many people do it, but you’ve just now lost control of the animal. And, you don’t know what’s going to happen. You don’t know if a kid’s going to be riding his bicycle right against the dog and get nailed. You don’t know if a patron is going to be coming in or out with food and maybe the dog will startle them and they’ll drop everything and break it. A lot of things can happen, if you don’t have that leash in your hand at all times. Adam: Am I obligated to report that to animal control? Karp: No, you have no duty, at all, to do so. No, no. We don’t have mandatory reporting laws, except, in some jurisdictions, there’s a mandatory report, if you find a stray. Karp: One law that I’ve worked on for a number of years is actually an extension of a law regarding livestock. This is a civil cause of action involving 1st degree or 2nd degree theft of livestock or felony animal cruelty or malicious injury to livestock, which are all crimes. Basically, what this law does, is it says if you own livestock in a specifically defined category — like a horse, a bovine, a goat, a sheep, that sort of thing — if your livestock is the victim of felony animal cruelty, or felony theft of livestock, or malicious injury to livestock, which is a relatively new animal abuse crime, then you can sue the person who did it for trouble damages and reasonable attorney’s fees. Adam: That’s great! Except, dogs are not considered “livestock”. And, Washington state doesn’t provide punitive damages in such cases. Adding an attorney fee provision would be the “big stick”, as you call it, and would make guilty parties reimburse victims’ attorney fees. Part 3: Practical Advice and Broader Legal

    40 min

  5. 09/01/2025

    Steven Hales: Dogs & Philosophy

    Explore Our Services Episode Summary In this episode of Dogs in Our World, host Adam Winston explores the intersection of philosophy and canine companionship with Dr. Steven Hales, professor of philosophy at Bloomsburg University and editor of What Philosophy Can Tell You About Your Dog. Together, they unpack how dogs can illuminate timeless philosophical questions—from ethics and epistemology to metaphysics and the philosophy of mind. Can dogs truly be our friends, or is it a different kind of bond? Do they feel guilt, or have they simply evolved behaviors that mimic human emotion? Are dog breeds real categories, or just convenient labels? Through personal stories and deep inquiry, Dr. Hales helps us rethink what it means to live alongside dogs—and what they might teach us about ourselves. Whether you’re new to philosophy or curious about the minds of animals, this episode offers a fresh, accessible lens on how dogs help us grapple with life’s biggest questions. Read on for key takeaways, resource links, and the full transcript. Key Takeaways Dogs as Philosophical Guides Dogs can serve as entry points into complex philosophical ideas, making abstract concepts more relatable and emotionally resonant. Philosophy in Everyday Life Dr. Steven Hales uses everyday experiences with dogs to explore branches of philosophy like ethics, epistemology, metaphysics, and philosophy of mind. Do Dogs Think? Ancient and modern philosophers have debated whether dogs can reason, feel emotions, or possess a sense of self—and what that means for how we treat them. From Automata to Continuum The Cartesian view saw animals as automata, but modern thinkers see dogs and humans as part of a shared biological and cognitive continuum. Guilt, Shame, and Anthropomorphism Questions about guilt, shame, and affection in dogs challenge us to consider whether we’re anthropomorphizing or recognizing genuine emotional behavior. Philosophy in the Mundane Personal stories, like Dr. Hales’ dog Sophie sneaking onto the bed, illustrate how philosophical inquiry can emerge from everyday moments with pets. Resources & Links What Philosophy Can Tell You About Your Dog — Edited by Dr. Steven Hales Bloomsburg University Philosophy Department — https://www.bloomu.edu/academics/colleges/liberal-arts/philosophy Dogs in Our World Podcast Feed — https://dogsinourworld.com/feed/podcast/ Contact Us — https://dogsinourworld.com/contact Amazon YouTube Discord RSS Feed Google Instagram LinkedIn Spotify TikTok Twitch Episode Transcript Show Transcript Part 1: Dogs, Minds, and the Roots of Philosophy S1 E03: Dogs and Philosophy Adam: Dogs help me grasp difficult subjects. They also give me the confidence that I need to conquer challenges. The only way I have been able to confidently approach the world of philosophy, and maybe understand some of it, is by looking to domestic dogs as examples. Adam: Since this show is about meeting experts and getting answers from the source, I searched the Internet for someone who could teach us about dogs and philosophy. With the help of my old philosophy professor in Philadelphia, I found this guy … Adam: Dr. Steven Hales is a professor of philosophy at Bloomsburg University in Pennsylvania. He edited a collection called What Philosophy Can Tell You About Your Dog, published by Open Court. Adam: Dr. Hales believes philosophy has something to say about many areas people are interested in, even if they don’t realize it. Whether it’s dogs, cats, or drinking beer, philosophy can illuminate aspects of everyday life and bring ideas out of the ivory tower. Adam: With Dr. Hales’ help, we’re bringing a bit of Philosophy 101 to the world of dogs. If you’ve never taken a philosophy class or want to revisit the subject with a fresh approach, let’s see how dogs can help teach us something new. Adam: Our experiences with dogs as pets and companions offer an avenue to reflect on philosophical issues. For example, can dogs genuinely be our friends, or is it a different kind of relationship? Do we have special obligations to our own dogs that we don’t have to others? Do dogs truly feel affection, or have they evolved to imitate behaviors that help them live well with humans? Adam: Dr. Hales made me think a lot about dogs and philosophy. It’s been difficult to share everything he taught me in just one episode. As usual, I like to start at the beginning. Adam: When many people think about philosophy, they think of classic philosophers like Plato and Confucius. I asked Dr. Hales if any of those early thinkers ever mentioned dogs. Steven: There was some ancient discussion about whether dogs could reason logically. Not so much about dog minds or ethics, but whether they could use logical reasoning. For example, if a dog is chasing a rabbit and the trail splits, does the dog reason that the rabbit isn’t down one path and therefore must be down the other? Adam: Rene Descartes, a 17th-century French scientist, mathematician, and philosopher, is often referred to as the father of Western philosophy. He viewed animals as automata—automatic beings like machines. This view, known as the Cartesian view, has influenced how animals are treated industrially today. Adam: Philosophers have long wondered what separates living things from non-living things. In Descartes’ time, mechanical devices could mimic living functions, raising questions about how to understand non-human animals. Do dogs have minds like us, or are they biological machines without mentality? Adam: Descartes believed animals were like clocks. But modern philosophers, especially post-Darwin, see humans, dogs, and other animals as part of a continuum rather than fundamentally distinct kinds. Adam: In ancient times, animals were often seen as workers or prey. Egyptians tied animals into worship, like Bastet the cat or Anubis the jackal-headed god. But modern philosophers think differently about relationships with non-human animals. Adam: Dr. Hales also introduced us to several branches of philosophy that can be used to examine dogs: Ethics: What are our relationships with dogs? What obligations do we have toward them? Do dogs have rights or duties toward us? Philosophy of Mind: How should we understand dog mentality? Do they feel emotions? Do they recognize us as having minds? Epistemology: The theory of knowledge. Do dogs know things in the same way we do? For example, a dog may know the bin contains her food, but does she understand the proposition that the bin contains food? Metaphysics: The fundamental nature of reality. Are dog breeds real categories or convenient labels? Is a Labradoodle a distinct kind or just a mix? Adam: We also explored whether dogs have a sense of self. Do they recognize their own identity or see themselves as part of a pack? Can they reflect on their own thoughts? Adam: This ties into questions about guilt and shame. Do dogs feel guilty, or have they learned to show behaviors we interpret as guilt? Are we anthropomorphizing—attributing human traits to dogs? Adam: Dr. Hales shared personal examples, like his dog Sophie sneaking onto the bed. Was she being naughty, or just playing a game? Can we blame dogs for their actions, or are they simply acting within their understanding? Adam: These philosophical questions don’t have easy answers, but they help us think more deeply about our relationships with dogs. Adam: Coming up, we’ll explore more practical ideas and personal examples to reflect on when looking at dogs. Part 2: Dogs, Emotions, and the Ethics of Care Adam: Welcome back. In this part of the episode, we’re diving deeper into how dogs experience emotions and what that means for how we treat them. Adam: Dr. Hales, do you think dogs feel love the same way humans do? Steven: That’s a tough one. Dogs certainly show affection, but whether it’s the same as human love is debatable. They may not have the same conceptual framework, but they do form strong emotional bonds. Adam: I’ve seen dogs grieve when their owners pass away. That seems like a deep emotional response. Steven: Absolutely. There are documented cases of dogs mourning. But again, we have to be careful not to project human emotions onto them. Adam: So how do we ethically respond to those emotions? If dogs feel grief or love, does that mean we owe them more than just food and shelter? Steven: That’s where the ethics of care comes in. It’s a philosophical approach that emphasizes relationships and emotional responsiveness. If we accept that dogs have emotional lives, then our moral obligations expand. Adam: That makes sense. It’s not just about keeping them alive—it’s about helping them thrive. Steven: Exactly. And that includes respecting their preferences, giving them agency, and recognizing their individuality. Adam: I love that. It’s a shift from ownership to partnership. Steven: Well said. Adam: We’ll continue this conversation in Part 3, where we explore how dogs help us reflect on our own humanity. Part 3: Dogs as Mirrors of Humanity Adam: Welcome back to the final part of this episode. We’ve talked about how dogs help us understand philosophy and ethics. Now, let’s turn the lens around—how do dogs help us understand ourselves? Adam: Dr. Hales, do you think dogs reflect human nature in some way? Steven: Absolutely. Dogs are deeply social creatures, and their behavior often mirrors our own. They respond to kindness, fear, routine, and even social hierarchies. Adam: I’ve noticed that when I’m anxious, my dog seems anxious too. It’s like they pick up on our emotional states. Steven: That’s a great observation. Dogs are incredibly attuned to human emotions. They’ve evolved alongside us, and that co-evolution has shaped their ability to read and respond to our cues. Adam: So in a way, they’re emotional mirrors. Steven: Exactly. And that reflection can be powerful. It fo

    41 min

  6. 08/07/2025

    Mark Derr: Dogs & History

    Explore Our Services Episode Summary In Episode 02, Adam Winston sits down with historian Mark Derr to trace the journey of dogs in North America—from their arrival with Indigenous peoples as pack animals and spiritual companions, through colonial conquests and presidential preferences, to their service and suffering in global conflicts. We explore unique native breeds like the Salish Wool Dog, the foxhounds of Washington versus the herders of Jefferson, and the ethical complexities of war dogs in WWII, the Iraq War, and modern society. Read on for key takeaways, resource links, and the full transcript. Key Takeaways Indigenous communities in North America relied on dogs as pack animals, hunting assistants, and spiritual companions, often burying them with their owners. Spanish colonists weaponized dogs to brutalize Native peoples, a practice that led New England settlers to shun militarized dogs until the Seminole Wars. Presidential preferences for dogs reflect their priorities: George Washington’s passion for foxhounds versus Thomas Jefferson’s affinity for herding breeds. Military use of dogs in Nazi concentration camps and at Abu Ghraib raises enduring ethical questions about deploying animals in warfare. Today’s off-leash restrictions, record high dog ownership (70+ million in the U.S.), and shifting attitudes toward risk underscore an evolving human–dog relationship—and a potential societal backlash against dogs as fads fade. Resources & Links Amazon YouTube Discord RSS Feed Google Instagram LinkedIn Spotify TikTok Twitch Resources & Links A Dog’s History of America by Mark Derr (book) Dogs’ Best Friend by Mark Derr (book) Show notes for S01E02: https://dogsinourworld.com/season-1-episode-2-dogs-and-history/ Mark Derr’s website: http://www.markderr.com/ Smithsonian article on war dogs: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/war-dogs-180967395/ Episode Transcript Show Transcript Part 1: Dogs and Indigenous North America MARK DERR: DOGS AND HISTORY This will be another three-part episode. First, we’re going to learn about how dogs arrived to North America, their role in colonial history, and then forward in time to the 20th and 21st century. I posted lots of research links to the show notes at dogsinourworld.com. Part 1 Mark: The main thing about history is that we learn it, so that we try to avoid re-peating it. By repeat it, I mean that we repeat the themes of history more than the actions of the people who formed them. Mark was just describing the theme of today’s show. This guy blows my mind every time I have the privilege of learning from him. You may have seen Mark on PBS, A&E, and the Discovery Channel. You can also read his stuff in the New York Times, Atlantic Monthly, and Smithsonian Magazine among many others. To me, he’s like the Gandalf of dog experts. If mother nature was actually a wise and no-nonsense dude in Miami Beach—she would be Mark Derr. Mark: I’m interested in the human connection to the natural and built world. Dogs I’m into, because they are a mediator between us. Dogs are interesting, because of their ubiquity in the world. They’re useful as companions and workers. If that makes sense to anyone…good. If not, you need a dog. In the first episode, we talked about the history of wolves and their transformation into dogs. In today’s show, we’re going to primarily focus on the history of dogs in North America. Then, onto the New World and through present day. In order to set the stage and give us a starting point, I asked Mark to explain how we first got dogs in North America. Mark: It’s long been assumed they came across the bearing straight. After the ice melt. Whether that’s true, I don’t know. That may change with genetic evidence, but I think they would have come with the first people. Adam: And what kind of dogs were these? Mark: They were probably wolf-like dogs as most were at the time. They became more wolf-like as they proceeded down the continent, I assume. Because, people lose them and need to replenish them. So, they bred with wolves for some time after the dog came into existence. We might call them dog-wolves, or dog-like, whichever. Native Americans were the first people to begin using dogs in North America. I have often said that dogs make me feel closer to both God and mother nature. That hard-to-define spiritual bond with a companion dog was also likely felt by some of the earliest peoples in America. Derr: It depends from culture to culture. We know from burials that they had an important place in society [and with] important people. [Dogs were] assumed to serve as guides to the land of the dead. Sometimes, dogs were sacrificed or died at the same time [as their owners]. [In order to] help them navigate to the new kingdom. The first dogs in North America also served as hunting dogs. Little dogs were used to bay, or control the movement of elk. Larger dogs helped native Americans hunt bear and wildcats. They were even used to hunt otters and other aquatic prey. There was the Salish Wool dog here in what is now the Pacific Northwest. These dogs were bred in isolation on an island by the Coast Salish Peoples. The dogs’ coats were made into fabric and clothing and they were bred on the island in order to preserve the Salish Wool Dog bloodline. Is it possible that the Salish Peoples were the first dog groomers? Here’s Mark, again— Mark: It was their role in carrying packs that allowed them to go into the New World with people. I think that one can’t deny that. You can travel much further and faster with dogs than with your own two feet. When they came into being they were used pretty much as they are now. That is, they were used to drag along their own packs and people. Lash two poles and you can carry a lot of things. If only things could stay this harmonious and lovely. Unfortunately, if you remember from our recent interview with Erik from Wolf Haven—soon the Europeans arrive. Part 2: Colonial Conquests & Presidential Dogs Part 2 In Part 1, Mark Derr explained how dogs first arrived to the North American continent and were soon used by some early Native American cultures. He claimed it was the dogs’ ability to serve as a pack animal—by “pack animal” I mean they carried stuff—that allowed them to enter the New World with humans. Now, I want to begin Part Two by talking about the dogs who ‘probably came with Columbus. Dogs were ubiquitous on these voyages. They had a number of types of dogs in Spain—herding and livestock. Their primary function for the Spaniards was to terrorize and brutalize and kill the Native Americans to great aplomb. Since there aren’t many natives left where the Spaniards were, it’s a very sad part of American history that dogs were used in that way. But what it did do was keep dogs from being militarized for a long period of time—basically, until WWII. Adam: What do you mean by that? Mark: The Spanish use of dogs to brutalize people was so offensive to many colonists in New England—who otherwise weren’t offended by much—that they would not use dogs for that purpose. In fact, the one time dogs were enlisted was during the Seminole Indian Wars of the 19th century, when Congress mandated that some Cuban bloodhounds be brought to Florida to hunt Indians. One of the chief opponents of this was John Quincy Adams’s son—whose dad became president. The U.S. presidents before and after John Adams also greatly valued their collection of dogs. Here’s what Mark says about the different purposes Washington and Jefferson had for their dogs. Mark: Well, Washington was a major lover of dogs and breeder of foxhounds, because fox hunting was his passion. He kept close tabs on his dogs. Sometimes he’d loan them out to people. He had some little dogs, but foxhounds were his main thing. At one point he wrote to Ireland—he used his extensive contacts to not only request dogs, but also play politics. He requested wolfhounds, because he wanted them on his plantations. This was right at the end of the 18th century. He was told that there were no more wolfhounds in Ireland, since the wolves had been extirpated from the British Isles about 50–100 years earlier. So his correspondent offered him a well-bred mastiff as a guard dog instead of a wolfhound. Of course, that wasn’t very acceptable to Washington. Thomas Jefferson, on the other hand, was into herding dogs. He brought some back from France with him. I find it fascinating that George Washington was more into dogs who could hunt fox and kill wolves, while Thomas Jefferson was into herding dogs. Dare I say, a more peaceful purpose for a dog. I don’t know. I go back to thinking about how often dogs can be a reflection of their owner. If you’re interested in learning more about these presidents and their relationship with dogs, I highly recommend you check out Mark Derr’s book A Dog’s History of America. I’m currently in the middle of it and can’t wait to finish. Then I’m moving on to his other books before I read anything else. I have links to some of his books and articles in the show notes at dogsinourworld.com. Coming up, in the final part of the show, Mark is going to fly the time machine forward and remind us of some historical events in the 20th and 21st century that have affected the dogs in our world. Part 3: War Dogs & Modern Society Part 3 It can be tough. But, sometimes we’ve got to get our hands a little dirty as we sift through time in order to be on the right side of history. Remember, as Mark Derr said at the beginning of this show, we need to learn about history in order to avoid repeating some of it. I went down some deep, dark Internet rabbit holes in order to relay this story to you. Again, I’m sparing you the details, but we need to talk about some stuff. Here’s Mark taking us up to the 20th century and beginning Part 3 with the gritty history of on

    27 min

  7. 08/07/2025

    Erik Wilber: Dogs & Wolves

    Explore Our Services Episode Summary In this debut episode, Adam Winston explores the story of North American wolves with Erik Wilber of Wolf Haven International. We cover: History of wolves from pre-colonial coexistence to the 1973 Endangered Species Act Evolutionary theories on how dogs emerged from wolves Behavioral myths—why “alpha” is outdated and what dogs really need Read on for key takeaways, resource links, and the full transcript. Key Takeaways Europeans once paid bounties to exterminate wolves; legal protection under the Endangered Species Act began in 1973. Wolves drive trophic cascades, reshaping ecosystems—think willow regrowth and beaver habitat in Yellowstone. Domestication may have followed natural selection (wolves scavenging at camp edges) more than human-led breeding. “Alpha wolf” comes from captive-pack studies; wild packs are family units and much less aggressive. Resources & Links Amazon YouTube Discord RSS Feed Google Instagram LinkedIn Spotify TikTok Twitch Wolf Haven International – Visit information & sanctuary stories Dr. Mech’s Alpha Wolf video Articles on trophic cascades in Yellowstone (linked in show notes) Support the show: Donate here Book a Free Consultation with Adam Winston Episode Transcript Show Transcript Introduction With the help of some generous folks, I’m proud to finally present the first installment of what will hopefully be a monthly series. And, just so you know, links to everything we’re going to talk about in today’s show—pictures, comment sections for all of you to provide feedback, and more details—can be found at dogsinourworld.com. This episode is titled In the Beginning, and I’ve divided it into three parts. First, I’ll share what I recently learned about the history of wolves in North America and their current status here in the United States. The second part highlights popular theories on the evolutionary relationship between the wolf and dog—how we got the dog from the wolf. The third and final part explores what wolves can teach, or not teach, us about dogs. So let’s get started. Part 1: In the Beginning – Dogs and Wolves Even though my passion is for the domestic dog, as a young dog welfare professional I find it nearly impossible to avoid the subject of wolves. There’s a divisive, exhausting debate among dog enthusiasts that almost always traces back to wolves—what we think we know about them and how we compare dogs to wolf packs. If you want to see the amount of content out there, simply Google “dog dominance theory” or “dog training debate.” You’ll get around two million results—no deep digging required. But this show is our chance to get answers from the source. Instead of another dog trainer telling me about wolves, I went to someone who lives with them every day. Erik Wilber: My name is Erik Wilber, and I am an animal caretaker at Wolf Haven International. I’ve been here ten years now. I started as a volunteer in 2005, was hired in 2006, and haven’t looked back. Erik spends nearly 24/7 with wolves, wolfdogs, and coyotes. He feeds them, prepares their diets, repairs enclosures, transports them for veterinary care, and manages social groups and conflicts. Erik Wilber: It’s so much—feeding the wolves, preparing their food, repairing enclosures… When an animal needs the vet, I take them. I manage who goes where and handle every conflict that arises. First, I asked Erik about the history of wolves in North America. Erik Wilber: Wolves were everywhere in North America and coexisted with Native Americans. When Europeans arrived, they brought negativity—bounties on wolves, habitat destruction, and poisoning campaigns. From the 1600s until the 1970s, humans waged war on wolves, paying people a nine-to-five wage to kill them. In 1973, the Endangered Species Act made killing wolves illegal, and restoration began. At that point, wolves only remained in Alaska, Canada, and northern Minnesota. I was born in 1979 and didn’t realize that wolf repopulation happened in my lifetime. Today, you can find wolves—and even endangered red wolves—in many U.S. states. Erik Wilber: We now have red wolves in North Carolina, Mexican wolves in the Southwest, packs in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Minnesota, Wisconsin, the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, Canada, and Alaska. At Wolf Haven International, you can see gray wolves, red wolves, wolfdogs, and coyotes up close—including rare Species Survival Plan (SSP) animals. Erik Wilber: There are two North American species: red wolves (no subspecies) and gray wolves, which have five subspecies: Arctic, tundra (Great Plains), timber, Mexican, and Arctic wolves. Mexican wolves average 60–80 lb and have a tawny coat with a black cape. Wolf Haven only breeds the federally managed Mexican and red wolves under the SSP. All other rescues are not bred to avoid adding more captive wolves. At one point, only seven Mexican wolf founders remained. Wolf Haven doesn’t own them; the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service does. We just provide the habitat while the recovery program manages breeding and reintroduction. Erik Wilber: We’re very careful about wolf exposure. Education is important, but we don’t want to overexpose these animals just for visitors. Suddenly, a distant siren triggered a chorus of howls from the wolves and wolfdogs—an eerie reminder that we were guests in their world. Erik Wilber: (Wolf howl audio) That haunting howl was Caedus, a wolfdog at Wolf Haven. Sadly, his longtime companion Ladyhawk passed away shortly after our visit, so this episode is dedicated to her memory. Most residents can’t return to the wild. But what about wild wolves slowly reclaiming their historic range? What can we do to help? Erik Wilber: Become educated. If you live in a wolf state, monitor public comment periods for environmental impact statements. Make your voice heard. Wolves aren’t just charismatic—they’re ecosystem engineers. Their presence triggers a trophic cascade that shapes entire landscapes. Erik Wilber: Top predators like wolves control prey populations and influence vegetation growth—willows in Yellowstone exploded once wolves returned, benefiting beavers, songbirds, and aspen stands. Erik Wilber: You can support Wolf Haven by symbolically adopting a wolf or becoming a member to receive our quarterly Wolf Tracks magazine. Follow us on Facebook (facebook.com/wolfhavenintl) and visit wolfhaven.org to book a reservation. Part 2: When, Where & How Did Wolves Become Dogs? Erik Wilber: The big questions are when did wolves become dogs, where did it happen, and how? Fossils point anywhere from 36,000 to 10,000 years ago. Genetics gives clues on timing, archaeology on place, and anthropology on process—but they don’t always align. Adam Winston: And could domestication be happening today? Erik Wilber: Possibly—some studies suggest multiple domestication events that later merged. Adam Winston: What about the “how”? Erik Wilber: Two main theories: artificial selection—humans capturing wolf pups and breeding them—or natural selection—wolves scavenging near human camps, with the tamest surviving and breeding among themselves, eventually becoming dogs. I lean toward natural selection. Early hunter-gatherers likely didn’t have the resources to raise wolves generation after generation. It makes more sense that wolves domesticated themselves on the fringes of human settlements. Erik Wilber: Some scientists point to village or pariah dogs—feral dogs living beside humans without being pets. They may mirror that early scavenger niche and have been easier to domesticate than wild wolf pups. Genetics is a “tomato soup” of mixed wolf and dog DNA—hard to tease apart. Ironically, humans share over 80% of our genes with dogs; chimpanzees share 96–98% with us. Next, we’ll explore what wolves truly teach us about dogs in our world. Part 3: What Wolves Can Teach (or Not Teach) Us About Dogs Many people cling to wolf-derived terms like “alpha,” “pack leader,” and “top dog” when training a house pet—often without realizing these ideas come from captive-pack studies, not wild behavior. Erik Wilber: Early wolf researchers studied captive packs and coined “alpha” to describe fighting for dominance. But wild packs function as family units—breeding pairs and their offspring. Adam Winston: So “alpha” implies constant competition that doesn’t exist in the wild. Erik Wilber: In the wild, wolves disperse once mature, forming new packs. Captive wolves can’t disperse, so they compete for position. Dr. Mech, the researcher who popularized “alpha,” now recommends “breeding pair” or “parents” instead. Applying “alpha wolf” rules to pet dogs can be misleading. Dogs have evolved for thousands of generations and don’t think or behave like wolves today. Erik Wilber: I’ve bonded with wolves, but it’s not like my relationship with a dog. Wolves are independent, aloof—they come to me for food, then return to their routines. Researchers at Wolf Park in Indiana socialize wolf pups intensively—taking ten- to fourteen-day-old pups and raising them around humans for three months to study more “natural” wolf behavior. Even they don’t call themselves “pack members” to the wolves. Erik Wilber: They see people as separate. Even highly human-socialized wolves don’t treat humans like pack members. Wolf behaviors sometimes appear “watered down” in dogs—play bows, social signals—but dogs have a world of their own. Erik Wilber: For multi-dog households, you may see a loose pecking order, but it varies by breed, individual temperament, and context. Dogs are incredibly diverse. Erik Wilber: Trying to force dogs into wolf roles can do them a disservice. Dogs deserve study on their own terms. That wraps our first episode. We’ve covered the h

    45 min
  • 7 Episodes

About

Fieldnotes is where science, story, and lived experience converge. Explore podcast episodes, articles, and resources that deepen our understanding of dogs through empathy, behavior, and advocacy.

Information

  • Creator
    Adam Winston
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    7
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Dogs In Our World. All rights reserved.
  • Show Website
    Fieldnotes - Dogs in Our World