348 episodes

Welcome to the For the Love Podcast community.

New York Times Bestselling author Jen Hatmaker’s life’s work is to lead and serve women as they genuinely show up for their own lives. In these conversations we need not fear the truth, or hard questions, or spiritual curiosity, or challenging unjust systems; that is literally why we are here, and we’re so glad you’ve joined us.

We believe women living in freedom are the answer to all that ails society. When we are exactly who we are, how we are, where we are, as we were always meant to be, women are the 8th wonders of the world.
For the love of all that is good, right, wrong, hard, fun, perplexing, wondrous and thought-provoking, Jen’s here for it all with eye-opening conversations with some of the best people on earth.

For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast For the Love Podcast

    • Society & Culture
    • 4.6 • 6K Ratings

Welcome to the For the Love Podcast community.

New York Times Bestselling author Jen Hatmaker’s life’s work is to lead and serve women as they genuinely show up for their own lives. In these conversations we need not fear the truth, or hard questions, or spiritual curiosity, or challenging unjust systems; that is literally why we are here, and we’re so glad you’ve joined us.

We believe women living in freedom are the answer to all that ails society. When we are exactly who we are, how we are, where we are, as we were always meant to be, women are the 8th wonders of the world.
For the love of all that is good, right, wrong, hard, fun, perplexing, wondrous and thought-provoking, Jen’s here for it all with eye-opening conversations with some of the best people on earth.

    Unraveling the Grip of Shame on Our Sex Lives with Matthias Roberts

    Unraveling the Grip of Shame on Our Sex Lives with Matthias Roberts

    Welcome to our first episode in our For the Love of Sex series! We’re excited to break open this topic and find ways to cultivate what sexual health means for each of us and lay down toxic perspectives surrounding sex in our lives. Today we’re talking about sexual shame and how that can show inside and outside the bedroom. Matthias Roberts is a psychotherapist, author and podcaster. He wrote a book on sexual shame called “Beyond Shame: Creating a Healthy Sex Life on Your Own Terms” and is committed to helping people find freedom feeling shame around sex.
    Jen and Matthias discuss:
    A working definition of what sexual shame is How Matthias’s perspective on sex shifted after coming out in a Christian fundamentalist home Questions to ask ourselves to develop our own sexual ethic How sexual shame can affect every area of our life Ways to stay curious and let go of shame about sex Matthias’s queer theological perspective on sex The ways shame can seep into our lives is surprising. Join Jen and Matthias as they unpack, with a compassionate lens, how to stay curious and work toward kicking the shame-filled parts of our sex life to the curb.
    * * *
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    Thought-Provoking Quotes
    “Sexuality is also a really core part of who we are. How we experience or do not experience sexuality is identity construing, and it should be. It is part of who we are.” - Matthias Roberts
    “We have our shame, we have our sexuality, and then we have our divine, or our beliefs around the divine, and what the divine commands of us or doesn't command of us around our sexuality. And when those things play together, we can get a pretty nasty mix really quickly.” - Matthias Roberts
    “So many of us try to push shame aside. That's our default, "Push it aside. We're not going to pay attention to this. This hurts." Or we get shut down by it, but we never quite take the time, or a lot of people don't take the time to really listen and figure out what the shame is actually telling us. And I think that's a really, really important place to start, because if we don't know what we're working with, the particularities of the shame, then how do we actually work with it?” - Matthias Roberts
    “I think there's something around queerness and the ways that queer sexual ethic or queer ways of thinking around sexuality can actually free everyone up.” - Matthias Roberts
    “What would it mean for our bodies to be good as they are right now? Can we get curious about that? If we feel I have a bad body or that sense of inferiority, what does it mean that my body as it is, right now, in this moment, might actually be good and can bring me pleasure?” - Matthias Roberts
    “Shame disconnects us. It disconnects us from our bodies, from our communities, from our partners. Sex connects us. It is ultimately a connecting force. So we can actually use our sexuality as a way to reconnect to our bodies, reconnect to our partners.” - Matthias Roberts
     
    Guest’s Links
    Matthias Roberts Website
    Matthias’s Facebook
    Matthias’s Instagram
    Matthias’s Twitter
     
    Resources Mentioned in This Episode
    Beyond Shame: Creating a Healthy Sex Life on Your Own Terms
    For The Love Podcast Episode with Jay Stringer on Purity Culture
    For The Love Podcast Episode with Brene Brown on Vulnerability
    Sex, God, & the Conservative Church
    Pure: Inside the Evangelical Movement That Shamed a Generation of Young Women and How I 
    Normal Gossip Podcast
    Holy Runaways: Rediscovering Faith After Being Burned by Religion



    Connect with Jen!
    Jen’s website
    Jen’s Instagram
    Jen’s Twitter
    Jen’s Facebook
    Jen’s YouTube
     

    • 1 hr 7 min
    [BONUS] Is It Possible We Might Mostly Agree on Gun Control? Diana Oestreich Weighs In

    [BONUS] Is It Possible We Might Mostly Agree on Gun Control? Diana Oestreich Weighs In

    So much is happening in real time in our world, obviously. And as a weekly podcast we can’t always speak immediately into the events that happen around us that need a bigger conversation. So we decided to take the time to look at those happenings, find some people who could walk us through the big events that have happened in the last 4 or 5 months and pop in with some conversations outside of our regular series for our premium subscribers. We’re talking about events that have us rethinking our stand on different issues, legislation being passed or overturned, and  justice issues–all in an effort to understand what's at the core of each one and figure out how to react. This week, we’re looking at issues around gun control. Wherever your entry point into this discussion is, it’s something that’s been top of mind for many of us. You may find this shocking, since the divides on this are reported with great zeal via the media, but according to Gallup, a great majority of us believe in the right to own guns. And a whopping 92% of us favor background checks on Every. Single. Gun. Purchase.  So, what’s the big hubbub about gun control if we’re nearly all in agreement?  Because right now background checks aren’t required for every single gun purchase. Millions of guns have found their ways into the hands of those who are using them for criminal purposes, via sellers who don’t do background checks. Consider that fact alongside the stat that firearm deaths are the highest among teens and young adults between 18-34. How can this be, and how can we change it? That’s what we’re stepping through in this episode with Diana Oestreich, a veteran combat medic who served in Iraq. Diana’s an activist who is a self-proclaimed “peace wager” and she’s returning to our show to walk us through what’s going on and what we can do to change the situation to make the world a safer place for our kids. And spoiler alert: it doesn’t require everyone to have to hand over their guns. 
     
    Thought-Provoking Quotes
    “Just this year, guns are the number one killer of kids in America. That demands action and I'm committed to it.”  – Diana Oestreich 
    “I totally believe that it is A-okay to own a gun. I come from a family of hunters, I am the daughter, the mom, the sister of hunters. Is there a place in the American battery of rights to own an AR-15–a weapon of war? Do you need a weapon of war? No, you don't. Do you know that a grenade is a weapon of war? It is illegal. No American can own a grenade. And that’s a good thing.” - Diana Oestreich
    “The antidote to despair is action.” – Diana Oestreich  
    “The most powerful thing is that our kids know that they are part of doing good in the world. That's something that will make them resilient to violence.” – Diana Oestreich  
     
    Diana’s Links
    Website
    Instagram
    Twitter
    The Waging Peace Project
     
    Connect with Jen!
    Jen’s website
    Jen’s Instagram
    Jen’s Twitter
    Jen’s Facebook
    Jen’s YouTube

    • 1 hr 7 min
    Who’s the Most Important Person In Your Life? Dr. Corey Yeager On Why That Matters

    Who’s the Most Important Person In Your Life? Dr. Corey Yeager On Why That Matters

    This episode of our What If Series asks; what if we looked inward to discover what makes us tick, who are the voices shaping us, and why are we choosing them? We also consider the question; who’s the most important person in your life? The answers most people give are what you’d expect, but our guest this week proposes that we dig deeper to find a different answer that will ultimately change how we approach life. 
    Our guest, Dr. Corey Yeager, is a psychotherapist for the Detroit Pistons, a life coach, and an author. He appeared in the documentary, The Me You Can’t See, by Oprah and Prince Harry, and recently released a book that poses 40 questions we should be asking ourselves as we create a roadmap to discover our purpose and explore who we want to become. 
     In this episode Dr. Corey and Jen discuss:
    Becoming a psychotherapist for NBA players How self talk affects our outlook Why asking intentional big questions can reframe our life How the timing is now for a love affair with yourself The most important conversation you can have is the one with yourself. Dr. Corey gives us the guidance and encouragement to do just that. Join Jen and Dr. Corey in an insightful discussion of self love, self talk, and staying curious.   
    * * *
    Thank you to our sponsors!
    BetterHelp | Visit BetterHelp.com/forthelove and get 10% off your first month
    Thistle Farms | Visit ThistleFarms.org and use promo code FortheLove to get 15% off your order
    Me Course | Head to mecourse.org to register and start your new year feeling inspired!    
     
    Thought-Provoking Quotes
    “Most people have never thought about being a genius, ever. They would tell you, ‘I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius.’ But if someone says, ‘No. Be still. Think through this. Yes, you do have a genius. What is it?’ If you had to sit with that and play with that and grind with that, it would produce ... And actually not just the answer. The answer is not the key. The process towards the answer. The things that you play with, that you work through, that you cried through, that you laugh about. That is what we want more of." - Dr. Corey Yeager
    “I believe that at about nine, 10, 11, up into the 12, 13 year old range, we are handed a set of values. Our people around us, my grandparents, my mom, dad, my brother, they handed me a set of values. I didn't really get much say in it. They handed them to me and I agreed with it because I love my people. So then after I'm 12, 13, 14 years old, I move into the world holding those values, moving through the world with those values and never really re-engaging or checking in with myself to say, does that still work for me?.” - Dr. Corey Yeager
    “Discomfort should be an indicator that I'm growing into something that is quite important. So I think this indicator is something that will give us a signal.” - Dr. Corey Yeager
    “I submit that it is time for us to have a love affair with ourselves. I need to love me. And I'm glad my wife loves me and I'm glad my mama loves me and my kids love me. I'm glad, Jen, that they love me. But the most important love that I'm going to have is mine. If you don't know yourself, it's very hard to love yourself.” - Dr. Corey Yeager
    “So instead of using jealousy and just letting it sit, how about if we looked at those jealous moments, understood it as desire, and allowed that to become a GPS that told us where we wanted to head.” - Dr. Corey Yeager
    “We all hold the answers to everything we need. Everything that happens in my life today, I am fully equipped for. Anything that occurs, I'm fully equipped for, for this moment. And if we trust that, if we understand our lives as such, then we can move with confidence.” - Dr. Corey Yeager


    Guest’s Links
    Dr. Corey Yeager Website
    Dr. Corey's Facebook
    Dr. Corey's Twitter
    Dr. Corey’s Instagram
     
    Resources Mentioned in This Episode
    How Am I Doing: 40 Conversations to Have with Yourself
    The Me You Can’t See

    • 1 hr
    What If You Fail? Kendra Scott on What She’s Learned from Failure

    What If You Fail? Kendra Scott on What She’s Learned from Failure

    This episode of our What If Series asks what if you have big dreams and what if you didn’t let failure stop you from trying?
    Our guest is entrepreneur Kendra Scott, an intrepid businesswoman who built a billion dollar business while carrying her baby boy to sales meetings. She started with $500 and eventually created her dream, a 97% women run business that gives back to the community in meaningful ways. She breaks down the “why” and the “how” of building a jewelry empire and that asking for help from her people was key to her success.
     In this episode Kendra and Jen discuss:
    Failing at her first business with a kid and no college degree Where her “Why” came from Intentionally building a woman and mom-centric business The importance of asking for help The What If’s of our past can bury us under, so we never dream of our next things. But some of our next steps can be found in the rubble of our failures. Join Jen and Kendra in an honest discussion of entrepreneurship, motherhood, and community.   
    * * *
    Thank you to our sponsors!
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    Thought-Provoking Quotes
    “Because the ones that don't even try never know. And even if it doesn't work out, even if you fail. And I failed, I failed in my first business, that failure was the greatest education I ever got into business. It was my bridge to help me build the successful business I have today. And I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you, Jen if I didn't have that failed business. So I think for anyone out there scared, I always say, and I wrote this in Born to Shine, in my book, is put yourself in the worst case scenario, really think about it. And then you go, okay, you lived in that moment, and it wasn't so bad. Now I know what that's like. So now I'm going to just try to go for it." - Kendra Scott
    “Sometimes, we get ourselves buried in what ifs of our past and they hold us down from moving forward to our what ifs of the future, the dreaming what ifs.” - Kendra Scott
    “It is so hard in the moment to sometimes see the forest through the trees kind of thing, to see your way through. And it sometimes takes getting to that other place to then realize and you can see the path exactly back to where you began and why you had to go there.” - Kendra Scott
    “And I think if we can start taking those nos or the naysayers or the dream stealers and start to actually, when they say those things, get excited, make it more like, ‘Ooh, tell me I can't do it. Tell me, please.’ Ooh, I like it when someone tells me I can't do something because then I'm like, ‘Woo, let's go.’” - Kendra Scott
    “Stay open because we don't know what's going to come next.” - Kendra Scott
    I think for me, I'm still that dorky girl from Wisconsin. And I think sometimes I hope that the book too just knows that as these things happen, some people, it can affect them. And for me, I'm still me.” - Kendra Scott
    “Anything is possible. I promise you. I know in some moments it doesn't feel like they are, but if you can get your mind to know that you got this burning amazing light in your story, is what makes you great. So don't be ashamed to share who you really are.”  - Kendra Scott


    Guest’s Links
    Kendra Scott Website
    Kendra Scott's Facebook
    Kendra Scott's business Instagram
    Kendra Scott’s personal Instagram
     
    Resources Mentioned in This Episode
    Born to Shine: Do Good, Find Your Joy, and Build a Life You Love
     
    Connect with Jen!
    Jen’s website
    Jen’s Instagram
    Jen’s Twitter
    Jen’s Facebook
    Jen’s YouTube

    • 1 hr
    What if We Lived in a World Built by Women: Builder & Designer Extraordinaire Emily Pilloton-Lam

    What if We Lived in a World Built by Women: Builder & Designer Extraordinaire Emily Pilloton-Lam

    In this episode of the What If Series, we are asking some big questions around using your experience and skills to start something completely new or get imaginative on how you can positively affect your community with what you already have. What do you bring to the table with the whole totality of your experience that could be a force of good for your community or for the people around you?
    Our guest is leader and teacher Emily Pillton-Lam, an inspiring thinker and author of several books and creator of the nonprofit – Girls Garage. She’s taught thousands of gender expansive youth how to use power tools and to dream of a world built more equitably and sustainably, and she’s dreamt about what it would look like if girls/women were empowered to facilitate the surroundings in our world differently–with an eye toward thinking more communally and factoring in the lived experience of the people around them. 
     In this episode Emily and Jen discuss:
    The shocking statistics around gender imbalance in Architecture, Engineering and Construction Worlds Why power tools can make you feel superhuman How it takes messy courage to change course and start something new Dreaming of a world built by women Emily gives us insight into the big “what if” question we might all ask ourselves: what if we could affect our world with the skills and experience we have right now? 
    * * *
    Thank you to our sponsors!
    Chime | Sign up for your Chime Credit Builder Visa Credit Card today Chime.com/ForTheLove  
     
    Thought-Provoking Quotes
    “I think what I discovered through the act of building was both the physical power of it, like I could build something that was tangible and I could point to it and say I built that and we built that as a group of people, working together. Also, this was one of the first times where I looked around and there were other teenagers who were diverse, who were from all over the country, who had all kinds of various family stories, school experiences and yet, we were all on this construction site, building this thing together and it just felt ... like a light went off. This is the thing that makes me feel powerful and purposeful and that I don't have to check who I am at the door, that I could be my full self. So that's the gift that I think construction gave to me at a young age, and it's a gift that I have committed my adult life to paying forward and paying back and giving back to other young people." - Emily Pilloton-Lam
    “For women, a lot of our lives are influenced by, or sometimes dictated by how we view our bodies in the world.” - Emily Pilloton-Lam
    “So this is how I think about power tools. Of course, they're fun, they're exciting to learn, but they're like a real metaphor for what women can do and what women can contribute in the world in a physical way.” - Emily Pilloton-Lam
    “I think going to an art school and studying architecture was the thing that then set me up to start a nonprofit that was rooted in who I was, but also, this larger idea about service that would bring other people in too.” - Emily Pilloton-Lam
    “I got to work with people that sometimes I didn't agree with. I got to be in rooms where I sometimes didn't belong. I learned a lot from those couple years where I wasn't doing what I ultimately wanted to do.” - Emily Pilloton-Lam
    “One of the first things that you see when you walk [into Girls Garage], in our reception area, on the left-hand wall, there's a tiled wall, there's all these wood tiles and every tile has the name of a student who's been here and there's like a thousand of them. So you walk in and your name is literally on the wall, alongside hundreds of other girls, so you don't ever have to doubt that you belong here.” - Emily Pilloton-Lam
    “What matters to me is that no matter where you end up, you've been in a place where you know what it feels like to be seen and respected. Then, you can go and demand that when you don't feel that way later.

    • 50 min
    Regret: Our Most Misunderstood Emotion and a Gift to Move Us Forward with Daniel H. Pink

    Regret: Our Most Misunderstood Emotion and a Gift to Move Us Forward with Daniel H. Pink

    We’re knee deep in our What If Series and we’re bringing a twist to the conversation. This powerful interview is a note-taking worthy one; a powerful conversation on one of the most misunderstood emotions we have as humans: regrets. How can we harness our regrets toward forward momentum instead of drowning in them?
    Our guest is writer and researcher Daniel H. Pink, a fascinating thinker and author of several books–five of them New York Times bestselling works. His latest book is The Power of Regret: How Looking Backward Moves Us Forward. 
    In this episode Daniel and Jen discuss:
    Basic neurology behind regret How age can affect regret The four main types of regret we all feel How to vaporize the negative effects of regret through practical to dos Daniel teaches us to confront our regrets, listen to our regrets, use them as data, as feedback, and draw lessons from them. He shows us the evidence from social psychology, that if we deal with our regrets properly, we can become better problem solvers, strategists and ultimately find more meaning in life. 
    * * *
    Thank you to our sponsors!
    Me Course - New Year | Head to mecourse.org to register and start your new year feeling inspired!   
    Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Use the code READ and get $5 off your first month at jenhatmakerbookclub.com.
     
    Thought-Provoking Quotes
    “One can listen to the stories of other people, and if they have a little bit of mileage on them as I do, they can stop and say, "What are the lessons anybody can learn from this?" - Daniel H. Pink
    “What do you do when nobody's watching? What do you do? Because it's who you are. And it took me a while, Jen. It took me a while to realize like, ‘Hey, wait a second. I think I'm a writer.’” - Daniel H. Pink
    “Everybody has regrets. So if you feel regret, it doesn't mean that you're flawed. It doesn't mean that you're doing it wrong. It means that you are a human being. In fact, what we know from a whole pile of research here, so there's 50 or 60 years of research in social psychology, in cognitive science, in neuroscience, in developmental psychology, what it tells us is that regret is one of the most common emotions that human beings have. It's arguably the most common negative emotion that human beings have. It is ubiquitous in the human experience. We have piles of evidence showing that regret is omnipresent in our lives. It is everywhere. In fact, it's so prevalent, Jen, that if you lack regrets, that's probably a sign of a problem.” - Daniel H. Pink
    “Regret is a very complicated, sophisticated kind of emotion. It involves traveling in time in your head, negating things that really happen, coming to the present. It's very difficult.” - Daniel H. Pink
    “We have a half century of evidence showing that if we process our regrets in a systematic, intelligent way, don't ignore them, don't get wigged out by them, but listen to them, they can make us better.” - Daniel H. Pink
    “I've made so many decisions in the last week, most of which I don't remember, but there were decisions and indecisions and actions that happened three decades ago that not only I remember, but that bother me. That's a very strong signal.” - Daniel H. Pink
    “Regret clarifies what I value and instructs me on how to do better.”  - Daniel H. Pink
    “Foundation regrets, if only I'd done the work. Boldness regrets, if only I'd taken the chance. Moral regrets, if only I'd done the right thing. And connection regrets, if only I'd reached out. And around the world, those seem to be the foremost prevalent types of regret.” -  Daniel H. Pink
    “We fear that when we are vulnerable, people will think less of us when in fact they think more of us.” - Daniel H. Pink
    “We treat ourselves with kindness rather than contempt. We talk about it or write about it to defang it. And then we explicitly draw a lesson from it and apply that lesson going forward. And when we do that, regret is useful.” - Daniel H. P

    • 51 min

Customer Reviews

4.6 out of 5
6K Ratings

6K Ratings

Granted27 ,

So Awesome!!

This is a go-to podcast for me. Excellent content, high energy, great guests and such authenticity all the way around. Pure grace!!!

Margo Hikes A Lot ,

Fun and fluffy

I turn to Jen when I need a boost of smiley happy energy. I enjoy her guests and being introduced to their perspectives. Sometimes there is too much Jen in the interview. She usually asks an enormously long question (one of my pet peeves, I must admit) and doesn’t let her guest answer it fully without her jumping back in.

I needed the idea of Me Camp (been doing it for a few years but didn’t have a cute uplifting name for it.) This year I did We Camp with my new beloved.

Jen is fun. I learn a lot. But she sells a lot of stuff and it is distracting for me.

Happy listening

Brooke Jones-Henderson ,

Feels like listening to a salesperson

In the Barbara brown Taylor episode you talked about caring for the earth which was rich considering all the plane trips you took this year and your high levels of consumerism. Don't preach about caring for the earth with all that consumerism you post about all the time (how many vacations did you take this year? How many new cars did you buy? How many new wardrobes did you purchase or get? How much did you buy, buy, buy and encourage others to buy?????) one of the best ways we can care for the earth is buy less, especially new stuff and take fewer plane trips.

your recent posts about all your weight loss rubbed a lot of us the wrong way. Girl I know for a FACT you had a tummy tuck which is fine but don’t call it healthy eating when it’s actually a tummy tuck. And you have had even more fat phobic posts in which you have been called out and refuse to apologize. Please listen to your community- it’s not okay to joke about people based on their body. Please do better.

How many new bikinis did you buy for your resort vacation? Have you written a lot of books on less? But new bikinis and outfits for each day of your resort vacation in Mexico doesn’t seem like “less”. I’m tired of you constantly trying to sell us stuff when you made your name on books like Seven and talking about ethical fashion. You also talked about how you all drank less alcohol and ate better but it’s hard to find a post that doesn’t have pictures of drinking and it looks like there was a lot of drinking going on during your Mexico vacation. I love ya Jen- sometimes you say one thing and do another. A day after your vacation posts you were asking us for money for Ukraine ummmm you’re the one who seems to have extra money for Ukraine if you can afford to go on so many trips (month long me camp, plus trip to Mexico, plus multiple girls weekends and trips to NYC) and buy all the new clothing and accessories you are showing off. I mean you are constantly on a trip! Idk. You’ve gotten out of touch like Rachel Hollis but you act like you’re a normal person. I still follow and support you but I wish you would listen to the feedback from those who may not always agree with you, we are tired of constantly being sold stuff. Be aware of cognitive conservatism.

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