From Efficiency to Imagination with Josh Clark and Veronika Kindred

AI is opening the door to a new era of design—but most teams are still focused on making their existing work faster rather than reimagining what’s possible. Lou talks with Josh Clark and Veronica Kindred about their new book, Sentient Design, and what it takes to design truly intelligent interfaces.

They introduce the idea of “practical magic”—starting with bold, even impossible wishes and then working backward to create real, deliverable experiences. Rather than defaulting to chatbots and efficiency gains, they argue that AI enables entirely new interaction models, from adaptive interfaces to agents that collaborate directly within products.

The conversation also explores how design systems and past UX practices lay the groundwork for this shift, while designers themselves must unlearn habits that limit creativity. Through their “sentient design sprint” and “minimum magical product” framework, Josh and Veronica offer a structured way to move from imagination to implementation.

At its core, this episode is a call for designers to reclaim their role as inventors—embracing AI not just as a tool, but as a new design material for creating more responsive, dynamic, and human-centered experiences.

What You'll Learn from this Episode:

• Why AI is a new “design material,” not just a productivity tool
• How “practical magic” helps teams rethink what’s possible
• Why designers are stuck focusing on process instead of product innovation
• What adaptive, intelligent interfaces could look like in practice
• How the “sentient design sprint” turns ideas into real solutions
• What designers need to unlearn to work effectively with AI

0:13 - Meet Josh and Veronika and learn about their new Rosenfeld Media book

3:14 - Harnessing magical thinking with AI

9:19 - Moving beyond process, speed, and efficiency

13:11 - How designers can transition from tooling to inventing

16:53 - Exciting places the magic could take us

23:40 - 5 reasons to use the Rosenverse

25:52 - The Sentient Design Sprint

30:08 - The Sentient Triangle

33:36 - Is this applicable to non-traditional designers? Or what designers need to unlearn?

39:56 - Josh and Veronica’s gifts for listeners

Resources and Links from Today's Episode:

Sentient Design: Crafting Intelligent Interfaces with AI by Josh Clark and Veronika Kindred https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/sentient-design/

Designing with AI 2026 - June 9, 2026 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/designing-with-ai/ 

Enchanted Objects: Innovation, Design, and the Future of Technology by David Rose https://www.amazon.com/Enchanted-Objects-Innovation-Design-Technology/dp/1476725640 

This is Running: A Celebration of the World of Running, Exploring the Culture, History, Brands, Races and People Behind It by Raziq Rauf https://www.amazon.com/This-Running-Celebration-Exploring-Culture/dp/1837330425?crid=10LYBYV063BKK&dib 

Quotes:

“We try to get in touch with the moments of emerging technology that help us to let go of the old ways of doing things and embrace the new, to think in terms of magical wishes.”

“A ‘magical moment’ is that machines can understand our intent beyond just what we know to type.” 

“The danger is we’re not endorsing magical thinking.”

“First we retool, then we reorganize to get our process around that. And then we invent.”