In the late 1950s, England and Wales switched from coal-based gas to natural gas in their ovens, which was a lot less toxic. Suicide rates dropped dramatically. This has a lot to teach us about gun violence. Instrumentality refers to how good a weapon is as an instrument of killing. Gas was cheap, available and lethal — as are guns in the U.S. today. So how can we reduce the instrumentality of a weapon? Guests: Ronald Clarke, Professor and former Dean of the School of Criminal Justice at Rutgers University; Franklin Zimring, Professor of Law at the University of California at Berkeley and author of The Great American Crime Decline; and Michael Anestis, Associate Professor of Psychology at the University of Southern Mississippi and author of Guns and Suicide: An American Epidemic.