100 episodes

The Agency Leadership Podcast provides insights for agency owners and executives. Co-hosts Chip Griffin and Gini Dietrich share practical advice and industry news relevant to PR and marketing agency leaders.

Agency Leadership Podcast Chip Griffin and Gini Dietrich

    • Business
    • 4.8 • 18 Ratings

The Agency Leadership Podcast provides insights for agency owners and executives. Co-hosts Chip Griffin and Gini Dietrich share practical advice and industry news relevant to PR and marketing agency leaders.

    Accepting equity as payment for agency services

    Accepting equity as payment for agency services

    Start-up clients may not have the funds to pay you, but still need service, so why not consider receiving equity as payment?







    In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the potential pitfalls of that approach. They caution against exotic payment schemes such as equity or pay for performance, emphasizing the risks and complexities involved.







    They also highlight the importance of legal and tax considerations when entering into equity deals.







    Key takeaways









    * Chip Griffin: “There is often a real desire for people with businesses that don’t have a lot of money to try to come up with really exotic payment schemes, whether that’s equity, whether that’s pay for performance, however they’re able to postpone or delay giving up cash to you.”







    * Gini Dietrich: “Something like 95 percent of startups fail. So why would you take that risk?”







    * Chip Griffin: “Anyone who is willing to give up a portion of the ownership in their business to you has to be, by definition, relatively desperate.”







    * Gini Dietrich: “I couldn’t take the risk of potentially never getting paid because I was not in control of whether or not they were going to sell this new product.”









    Related









    * ALP 14: Non-traditional agency revenue streams







    * 9 ways to price your agency’s services











    View Transcript

    The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.







    Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin.







    Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich.







    Chip Griffin: And Gini, you know, I think we need to, I think we need to do an equity deal with somebody for this podcast. I think that’s really… that’s really the way we can make some money.







    Gini Dietrich: Absolutely. Zero of zero is a really good idea.







    Chip Griffin: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, why not? I mean, it is something that a lot of, agencies encounter from time to time where you’ll be talking particularly with a startup or something like that. And they say, Hey, you know, wouldn’t it be great if you could do some PR work for us and we will pay you in equity.







    We’ll give you shares of the business or we’ll give you options or something like that, that allows you to benefit from the upside because you’re coming with us from the ground floor, and we want to reward that kind of faith in what we’re building.







    Gini Dietrich: Just a few months ago, I had a prospect say to me, We really want to work with you.







    We really believe in your process. We really have a great chemistry with you and your team. Would you be willing to postpone payment until after we sell our first customer from the work that you do? And I was like, no, no. And I mean, he pushed me really hard. He’s like, okay, well what if we did this? What if? I was like, listen, I have a team, I have payroll to make.







    They have other clients. If we can’t figure out some sort of way to do this, where you’re paying us for our work, then it’s not going to work. And it didn’t work. We had to walk away. because there’s, I can’t make payroll.

    • 17 min
    Get over your fear of hiring employees

    Get over your fear of hiring employees

    In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the fear of hiring employees, the implications of using contractors, the financial considerations, and the benefits of having employees.







    They emphasize the need to align hiring decisions with long-term business goals and not to be afraid of hiring employees when it makes sense financially.







    Key takeaways









    * Chip Griffin: “You’re an owner. You act like an owner. An employee acts like an employee. A contractor acts like a contractor. They are distinct and different things. And you need to understand that and accept that if you’re going to be successful.”







    * Gini Dietrich: “I’ve certainly had clients over the years that have wanted me and my team to act like their internal resources team. And we don’t act that way because we’re not.”







    * Chip Griffin: “There’s a time and place for every kind of resource for your agency. You need to pull the right levers at the right time.”







    * Gini Dietrich: “Look at the financials, figure out what your long term plans are for yourself and your business. And then start to build in the trigger points where you might hire some employees to help you get there.”









    Related









    * Questions solo PR pros must ask before hiring first employee







    * Getting ready to hire your first agency employee







    * Hiring the first employee for your agency (webinar)







    * Should your agency hire contractors or employees?











    View Transcript

    The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.







    Chip Griffin: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin.







    Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich.







    Chip Griffin: Gini employees scare me. I’m so afraid of them. I just don’t know what to do.







    Gini Dietrich: As you should be.







    Chip Griffin: Let’s talk about it right after this.







    Gini Dietrich: Okay.







    Chip Griffin: Employees. I think that’s a favorite topic for most agency owners, whether they have them or don’t have them, it’s still a favorite topic.







    Gini Dietrich: It is a favorite topic. And I think a lot of people are scared of having employees. A lot of agency owners are scared of having employees.







    Chip Griffin: Yeah, and as you say, you’re right to be at least a little scared of it.







    Sure. You can’t be so afraid of it that it holds you back from achieving the goals that you have personally. And I’m not saying that every agency should have employees. It’s certainly a legitimate choice not to have one. That brings certain other things along with it and you have to accept that if you’re not going to hire employees.







    You may not be able to grow in exactly the same way. And I, I think that a lot of agency owners struggle with this because they want to have their cake and eat it too.

    • 23 min
    Handling frustration as an agency owner

    Handling frustration as an agency owner

    Employee complaints? Accountable only to yourself? Trying to create a work culture? Welcome to agency ownership!







    In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the challenges and frustrations of owning an agency, emphasizing the importance of seeking accountability and support, and reflecting on one’s own role in addressing issues.







    The discussion also includes reflections on past experiences and lessons learned, as they share insights for agency owners to effectively navigate their responsibilities and address issues in a constructive manner.







    Key takeaways









    * Chip Griffin: “Instead of seeking to assign blame to somebody else, ask what you could do differently.”







    * Gini Dietrich: “Put the process in place, have the right conversations, but don’t get mad at the employee for taking advantage of the situation.”







    * Chip Griffin: “The culture of a small agency is a direct reflection of the owner.”







    * Gini Dietrich: “We have to remember that just like we have complaints and frustrations, our employees do, too.”









    Related









    * The value of outside perspective to agency owners







    * How to avoid running an agency that employees think is crappy to work at











    View Transcript

    The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.







    Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin.







    Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich.







    Chip Griffin: Gini. I’m just fed up. I’ve had enough of this. I just, I can’t even tolerate this anymore.







    Gini Dietrich: Fine. Adios. Bye. Bye.







    Chip Griffin: Have you just ever felt frustrated with your agency?







    Gini Dietrich: Yes.







    Chip Griffin: I mean, I, I would pull my hair out, but…







    Gini Dietrich: You don’t have any?







    Chip Griffin: Wouldn’t have much impact. Oh, I always tell people before I owned an agency, I had hair, which is true.







    Gini Dietrich: But you didn’t pull it out because of the agency, it’s no correlation.







    Chip Griffin: No correlation. No, maybe there’s correlation, but not causation.







    Gini Dietrich: Causation. Yeah. I mean, for sure. One of the things I think that’s really challenging about owning an agency is it’s, you know, the phrase it’s lonely at the top exists for a reason, because while we have may have lots of people around us, we don’t have people around us that we can talk to that are going through the same things that we are that have the same stresses that we do, that have put their whole life, blood and tears into the business like we have.







    And so it’s lonely, it’s lonely at the top. It’s frustrating. We find things from usually junior level employees that make us mad and, you know, I don’t know that we don’t understand. I think one of the biggest challenges as agency owners that we see is, you know, well, in my day, I didn’t do that. Like I wouldn’t have complained about working 14 hours a day and I wouldn’t have taken three weeks ...

    • 19 min
    How to handle extended payment term requests from agency clients

    How to handle extended payment term requests from agency clients

    How do you deal with clients who ask for different payment terms than the ones your agency offers?







    In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the importance of setting clear expectations from the start and being proactive in following up on overdue invoices. They offer different approaches and creative strategies for handling payment terms with clients.







    Key takeaways









    * Gini Dietrich: “You don’t go into a restaurant and order dinner, have dinner, and then a month later pay for it. That’s just not how it works.”







    * Chip Griffin: “If you want to be paid on time, you need to invoice on time.”







    * Gini Dietrich: “Set the expectation, be clear about it, communicate it. And treat it like a business relationship.”







    * Chip Griffin: “Anytime you’re willing to walk away, you’re much more likely to get the client to bend and give you what you need.”









    Related









    * Beware of dangerous agency RFP terms and conditions







    * How to do client collections right and get paid faster







    * Payment terms for agency subcontractors











    View Transcript

    The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.







    Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin.







    Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich.







    Chip Griffin: And Gini, I think we need to talk about, you know, how long it takes you to pay me for my time on this podcast.







    Gini Dietrich: Okay, no problem.







    Chip Griffin: Right after this.







    So, yeah, I mean, I feel like I’m always sitting there going to the mailbox looking for my check and it just never shows up.







    Gini Dietrich: Well, first of all, the fact that you’re going to your mailbox to look for a check says something. Secondly, you’re not going to get a check.







    Chip Griffin: What?







    Gini Dietrich: Sorry.







    Chip Griffin: But I, I thought the deal was you were paying me to be part of the show. No, darn. All right.







    Gini Dietrich: Well, now that you know that bye bye







    Chip Griffin: and that concludes this episode.







    Signing off forever. No, but I do think it is, it is helpful for us to talk about payment terms, because this is something that comes up all the time. I’ve had a number of conversations just in the last few weeks about it. It’s a question that came up in the Spin Sucks community recently as well. But, you know, trying to figure out what payment terms to accept as an agency.







    I think we all have our defaults, and we should talk about that, because I think some people are way too lenient in their default payment terms. And I think people should be more aggressive with what they’re setting out on the table as the agency. You know, in lieu of whatever the, the client may want, but sometimes clients will ask for even more than the agencies are offering.







    And so how do we handle that? So how would you like to go about doing this?

    • 23 min
    Avoiding time-wasting in your agency

    Avoiding time-wasting in your agency

    Are you and your agency team spending too much time writing proposals, creating capabilities decks, and building brand personas? 







    It may seem productive, but clients value results – and so should you.







    In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss how to get your agency’s time under control and offer advice on managing business development and project management to avoid the unnecessary and focus on real value creation.







    Key takeaways









    * Chip Griffin: “When you look at the total number of hours that agencies devote to these kinds of things, it is completely disproportionate to the return that they produce.”







    * Gini Dietrich: “There’s one thing that clients care about. Results.”







    * Chip Griffin: “Ask yourself, would you be happy writing a check out of your personal account for this proposal or capabilities deck?”







    * Gini Dietrich: “Figure out a way to focus on the things that are going to generate a return for you, just like you would do with your client.”









    Related









    * Real talk about agency websites







    * What if agencies abandoned proposals and posted transparent pricing?











    View Transcript

    The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.







    Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin.







    Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich.







    Chip Griffin: Gini, hold on. I just got to sit here and finish this game of Solitaire right after this.







    Gini Dietrich: Do people still play Solitaire?







    Chip Griffin: You know, I was just about to say that I suspect I’ve really dated myself there. All the younguns out there are like, what are you talking about?







    Gini Dietrich: What are you talking about? Yeah.







    Chip Griffin: It used to be the big office time waster. It did. People would sit there in Windows because Windows came installed with Solitaire.







    I don’t even know if it still is installed.







    Gini Dietrich: I don’t know either. I don’t know either. That’s funny.







    Chip Griffin: I had plenty of employees back years ago, 30 years ago, who would sit there and you’d walk by their desk and you’d see them playing Solitaire. Oh, it was very frustrating.







    Gini Dietrich: That is very frustrating. I would be very frustrated by that.







    Chip Griffin: But a common thing that I hear from agency owners are that team members are wasting their time in some fashion, not usually solitaire these days, but other things. Ironically, the owners themselves are wasting time on a lot of things as well. So I thought it would be Interesting to talk about. The biggest time wasters that agencies have.







    How are we not spending our time most effectively and what should we stop doing?







    Gini Dietrich: I remember when we had an office and we had an area that we called the energy center that was all the cubes for all the interns and like one and two what young professionals with one or two years of experience and they all sat in this this one area that was in the cubes.

    • 21 min
    What recent media layoffs mean for PR agencies

    What recent media layoffs mean for PR agencies

    In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the recent wave of layoffs in the media industry and its implications for PR agencies.







    They explore the challenges of securing earned media in a landscape with fewer journalists and offer insights on evolving strategies to effectively reach target audiences through alternative channels.







    Emphasizing the importance of setting realistic client expectations and embracing creativity, they highlight the need for agencies to adapt and innovate amidst industry changes.







    Key takeaways









    * Chip Griffin: “You need to understand where your client’s audience exists.”







    * Gini Dietrich: “How are you going to pivot the work that you’re doing so that you can still get the earned media in different ways?”







    * Chip Griffin: “The hard part is educating the clients.”







    * Gini Dietrich: “Prospects are saying PR doesn’t work. So it is our job to change that perception and set expectations correctly.”











    View Transcript

    The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.







    Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin.







    Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich.







    Chip Griffin: And Gini, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but there’s a lot of members of the media who are getting laid off.







    Gini Dietrich: I have noticed. It’s not good.







    Chip Griffin: It is not good. We’ll talk more about that right after this.







    That was kind of a boring intro. I didn’t, I didn’t even, I feel like I didn’t put any effort into it at all.







    Gini Dietrich: I always wait, I held my breath to see what you come up with. It’s great.







    Chip Griffin: You held your breath hoping that, well, I mean, the good news is this isn’t live. So, you know, it won’t be career ending for either of us, even if I go crazy, cause we just won’t publish it.







    So, right. So there’s really no need to hold your breath. If it was live, then I’d be holding my breath because since I make it up on the fly, you just never know what might come out of my mouth.







    Gini Dietrich: You never know.







    Chip Griffin: You never know. It’s true. But it, it does seem like, you know, just, you know, reading the media coverage these days, there’s a lot of members of the media who are finding themselves out of work, whether it’s the LA Times, the Wall Street Journal, Tech Crunch, you know, so it’s not just old school media Sports Illustrated. Yeah. I mean, just, almost across the board, real problems for traditional quote unquote mainstream media.







    Gini Dietrich: Yeah. I mean, I did the math the other day just because I was curious and it’s close to a thousand people who have been laid off, who were laid off.







    Journalists were laid off in January, which is not insignificant. And when you have an agency that focuses on media relations, it’s gonna be a little challenging coming this year. A little bit, you know, you don’t, we’re already having challenges with getting responses from journalists and now there’s significantly less.







    I mean, it’s probably 20 to 25 percent less journalists than there were at the beginning of 2024.







    Chip Griffin: Right. And, and,

    • 22 min

Customer Reviews

4.8 out of 5
18 Ratings

18 Ratings

LK_red_5 ,

Very informative

Very useful information on improving agency operations

Mike_Rosenberg ,

Informative with specific tips

Very informative for agency owners with a diverse list of topics. I love the perspective that Gini and Chip provide and they alway provide some specific example of what to do. Plus their banter is entertaining.

Ken Schulz ,

Consultant

This is a program I look forward to each week. With each episode I'm learning new things or being reminded of things I know but should be paying more attention to in my day-to-day. It's a terrific guide for any agency owner looking to grow revenues and build stronger businesses.

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