61 episodes

Rob Hahn a.k.a. The Notorious R.O.B. and Greg Robertson discuss organized real estate in a disorganized manner.

Industry Relations with Rob Hahn and Greg Robertso‪n‬ Rob Hahn and Greg Robertson

    • Technology
    • 4.9 • 27 Ratings

Rob Hahn a.k.a. The Notorious R.O.B. and Greg Robertson discuss organized real estate in a disorganized manner.

    Industry Relations Episode 61: Diagnosing Zillow Angst – with Errol Samuelson, Chief Industry Development Officer at Zillow Group

    Industry Relations Episode 61: Diagnosing Zillow Angst – with Errol Samuelson, Chief Industry Development Officer at Zillow Group

    Zillow has been consumer-centric since its inception in 2006. And in the early days, the tech company didn’t pay much attention to agents. Now Zillow realizes that reducing friction for consumers means helping agents respond to online leads and schedule showings, for example. But is it too late to earn the industry’s trust?
     
    Errol Samuelson is the Chief Industry Development Officer at Zillow Group. With 25 years of experience in proptech, he served in leadership roles at Realtor.com, Top Producer Systems and Move, Inc. before joining Zillow in 2014. On this episode of Industry Relations, Errol sits down with Rob and Greg to explain why Zillow is acquiring ShowingTime and explore what’s behind the industry’s volatile reaction to the announcement.
     
    Errol discusses the real estate industry’s distrust of Zillow, acknowledging the frustration the tech company has caused over the years and assuring us that his team will not misuse ShowingTime data. Listen in to understand how Errol thinks about CoStar as a competitor and learn why he believes an industry without cooperation and compensation is not good for agents, brokers or consumers.
     
    What’s Discussed:  
     
    Why the real estate industry went apeshit over Zillow’s acquisition of ShowingTime
    Zillow’s assurance that ShowingTime will remain an open platform with a strict privacy policy
    What problem Zillow is trying to solve by acquiring ShowingTime
    Errol’s insight on the rumor that Zillow bought ShowingTime to keep it out of CoStar’s hands
    How Errol thinks about the fact that people assume Zillow is lying
    Errol’s acknowledgement of the frustrations Zillow has caused agents over the years and how the company’s behavior may have amplified the industry’s distrust
    The possibility that social class and age are a factor in the industry’s mistrust of Zillow
    The focus of Zillow’s Q4 earnings call (Zillow Offers vs. streamlining the consumer experience overall)
    Why innovation in the lending space is limited by federal regulations
    The unique opportunity Zillow has to innovate around ownership models
    Errol’s thoughts on CoStar as a competitor and why CoStar’s success hinges on the government putting an end to cooperation and compensation
    Connect with Errol:
    Errol at Zillow
    Errol on LinkedIn
    Errol on Twitter
     
    Connect with Rob and Greg: 
    Rob’s Website
    Greg’s Website
     
    Resources:
    Rob’s Post on Zillow, ShowingTime & Paranoid Realtors
    Zillow’s Press Release on Acquiring ShowingTime
    ShowingTime
    Steve Murray at REAL Trends
    CoStar News
    Greg on Twitter
    Zillow’s Q4 2020 Earnings Call
    Zillow Offers
    Nick Bailey at RE/MAX
    Gary Keller’s 2021 Family Reunion Vision Speech Recap
    Trulia
    Dotloop
    Jay Thompson on Inman
    Susan Daimler at Zillow
    Rob’s 2020 List of the Seven Most Interesting People in Real Estate
    Zillow Home Loans
    Divvy
    Federal Regulations on Mortgage Finance
    REA Group
    Andrew Florance at CoStar
    Rob’s CoStar Red Dot Report
    CoStar’s Q4 2020 Earnings Call
    Rob’s Interview with Joe Rand
     
    Our Sponsors: 
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    • 51 min
    Industry Relations Episode 60: Unpacking the Panic Around Zillow’s Acquisition of ShowingTime – with Nick Bailey, Chief Customer Officer at RE/MAX

    Industry Relations Episode 60: Unpacking the Panic Around Zillow’s Acquisition of ShowingTime – with Nick Bailey, Chief Customer Officer at RE/MAX

    As the real estate industry has evolved, we’ve been trained to focus on who owns the data. And Zillow’s acquisition of ShowingTime has many concerned about sharing their data with the proptech giant. But what if hoarding your data is not the only way to compete with a company like Zillow? What if it’s not really about access to the data but what you do with it?
    Nick Bailey is the Chief Customer Officer at RE/MAX. With nearly 25 years of industry experience, Nick served as an agent, broker and proptech vendor before becoming the head of a major real estate franchise. On this episode of Industry Relations, Nick joins Rob and Greg to share his take on Zillow’s acquisition of ShowingTime and what’s behind the industry’s emotionally-charged reaction.
     
    Nick offers insight on how the data Zillow acquired was already publicly available, explaining why that information doesn’t necessarily give the tech company a competitive advantage and reminding us that it’s not unusual for companies at scale to offer various products and services to the industry at large. Listen in for Nick’s perspective on what we can do to improve the process of buying or selling a home for consumers and find out why you shouldn’t panic about Zillow’s acquisition of ShowingTime.
    What’s Discussed:  
    Nick’s background as an agent, broker, tech vendor and head of a major real estate franchise
    Why Nick sees Zillow’s acquisition of ShowingTime as one tech company acquiring another to make the process of buying and selling homes easier for consumers
    How ShowingTime’s market share influenced the industry’s emotionally-charged reaction to its acquisition
    Nick’s argument that the data Zillow has acquired was already publicly available
    How Nick addresses the objection that the ShowingTime acquisition forces agents and brokers to provide Zillow with a competitive advantage
    How it’s not unusual for companies at scale to offer various products and services (e.g.: RE/MAX’s acquisition of Motto Mortgage)
    What Nick is doing to educate agents around the spirit of cooperation in the industry
    How Nick thinks about whether Zillow is a RE/MAX competitor
    What the real estate industry can do to improve the fragmented process of buying or selling a home
    Nick’s insight on what differentiates RE/MAX in a competitive industry that includes a growing number of iBuyers
    The trend toward a greater concentration of power among fewer agents and how that might contribute to the panic around Zillow
    Nick’s advice for MLS, franchisor and large brokerage CEOs on using data to identify trends and create contingency plans accordingly
     
    Connect with Nick:
     
    Nick at RE/MAX
    Nick on LinkedIn
     
    Connect with Rob and Greg: 
    Rob’s Website
    Greg’s Website
    Resources:
    ShowingTime’s Press Release on Its Acquisition by Zillow
    Nick’s Video on Zillow’s Acquisition of ShowingTime
    Market Leader
    Rob’s Post on Zillow, ShowingTime & Paranoid Realtors
    First App
    Steve Murray at REAL Trends
    Motto Mortgage
    NAR Code of Ethics
    We Are RE/MAX on Facebook
    Brad Inman’s Piece on Zillow & ShowingTime
    Gary Keller’s 2021 Family Reunion Vision Speech Recap
    The Art of the CMA: Win Hearts, Minds, and Loyalty by Mastering Real Estate’s Most Versatile Tool by Greg Robertson 
    Dave Liniger at RE/MAX
     
    Our Sponsors: 
     
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    • 54 min
    Industry Relations Episode 59: Forecasting a Hot Housing Market in 2021 – with Jeff Tucker, Senior Economist at Zillow

    Industry Relations Episode 59: Forecasting a Hot Housing Market in 2021 – with Jeff Tucker, Senior Economist at Zillow

    Zillow’s Economic Research Team just released its forecast for 2021, and they expect it to be the best year for home sales since 2005. In fact, Zillow’s number crunchers believe that a whopping 6.8M existing homes will close next year, marking the biggest one-year gain in sales (nearly 22%!) since the early 1980’s.
     
    Jeff Tucker is a Senior Economist at Zillow Research where he studies the causes and consequences of changing supply in the housing market. On this episode of Industry Relations, Jeff joins Rob and Greg to discuss the inputs his team used to make its predictions for 2021 and describe how current growth differs from what we saw at the height of the bubble in 2005.
    Jeff offers insight around the demographics of who’s buying and selling homes right now, sharing his take on why the low millennial marriage rate may not impact the housing market as much as we think and how feasible it is for young, working-class Americans to afford homeownership. Listen in to understand how COVID facilitated the single-family home inventory crash and get an economist’s perspective on why the housing market will stay hot through 2021.
    What’s Discussed:  
    The inputs Jeff’s team used to predict that 6.8M existing homes will close in 2021
    How current growth differs from what we saw at the height of the bubble in 2005
    The decrease in the share of income spent on mortgages since 2018
    Why the iBuyer’s mission to create a frictionless experience is so important moving forward
    Jeff’s insight around the demographics of who’s buying and selling homes
    The distinction between family and household formation
    Why the low millennial marriage rate may or may not impact the housing market
    How COVID facilitated a single-family home inventory crash
    Why Jeff sees appreciation slowing down by the end of 2021
    Jeff’s take on the feasibility of homeownership for working-class millennials
    How the skyrocketing US money supply might impact the real estate market
     
    Connect with Jeff:
     
    Zillow Research
    Jeff at Zillow
    Jeff on Twitter
     
    Connect with Rob and Greg: 
     
    Rob’s Website
    Greg’s Website
     
    Resources:
     
    Lone Wolf Technologies
    Zillow’s Forecast for 2021
    NAR Data on Single Women Home Buyers
    Pew Research on Millennials & Marriage
     
    Our Sponsors: 
     
    Cloud Agent Suite
    Notorious VIP

    • 43 min
    Industry Relations Episode 58: What NAR’s Revised Code of Ethics Means for REALTORS – with Laura Farley

    Industry Relations Episode 58: What NAR’s Revised Code of Ethics Means for REALTORS – with Laura Farley

    Not too long ago, REALTORS were unified, often claiming to be neither Democrat nor Republican but members of the REALTOR Party. Today, however, the polarization in our country is reflected in the real estate community. And the recent changes to the NAR Code of Ethics, specifically Standard of Practice 10-5, seem to have pushed us even farther apart. So, how are these changes likely to affect REALTORS in practice? Can we be more inclusive without favoring one political party over another?
     
    Laura Farley serves as General Counsel at the Virginia REALTORS Association, and she has more than 10 years of experience handling and supervising professional standards cases. Prior to joining the state association, Laura was an attorney for the Northern Virginia Association of REALTORS. On this episode of Industry Relations, Laura joins Rob and Greg to provide an overview of the three major changes to NAR’s Code of Ethics and offer insight into how those changes might impact real estate professionals now that the professional standards apply to everything a REALTOR does, real estate related or not.
     
    Laura explains why NAR’s list of protected classes in Standard of Practice 10-5 is more inclusive than a lot of states and addresses the subjective nature of determining intent as well as the concerns that 10-5 gives some REALTORS more speech rights than others. She also discusses the significance of removing the word ‘willful’ from NAR’s definition of public trust, introducing us to the concept of disparate impact—and why it may or may not apply to Article 10. Listen in for Laura’s insight on how 10-5 has further polarized the REALTOR community and get her take on the best possible outcome around the revised Code of Ethics.
     
    What’s Discussed:  
     
    Laura’s decade of legal experience with professional standards cases
    Laura’s overview of the 3 major changes to the NAR Code of Ethics
    Why NAR’s list of protected classes is more inclusive than most state lists
    The significance of the word ‘use’ in Standard of Practice 10-5 (REALTORS must not ‘use’ harassing speech, hate speech, epithets or slurs)
    The controversy around how 10-5 gives some REALTORS more speech rights than others
    The subjective nature of determining an agent’s intent to harm, hurt or harass
    How Laura thinks about the concerns of REALTORS on the political right re: implicit bias
    The significance of removing the word ‘willful’ from the definition of public trust
    The concept of disparate impact and why it may or may not apply to Article 10
    How the change to 10-5 has further polarized the REALTOR community
     
    Connect with Laura:
     
    Virginia REALTORS
    Laura at Virginia REALTORS
     
     
    Connect with Rob and Greg: 
     
    Rob’s Website
    Greg’s Website
     
     Resources:
    Laura’s Code of Ethics Update Video
    Virginia REALTORS Code of Ethics Resources
    NAR Code of Ethics Changes
    NAR’s Code of Ethics & Standards of Practice
    Rob’s Post on an Alternative to the New Speech Code
    Virginia REALTORS Diversity & Inclusion PAG
    Rob’s Post on Disparate Impact
    Norwood v. Harrison
    Railway v. Hanson
    Jenna Ryan
     
    Our Sponsors: 
     
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    Notorious VIP

    • 49 min
    Industry Relations Episode 57: On Divorcing Commissions & Weathering the Tweetstorm

    Industry Relations Episode 57: On Divorcing Commissions & Weathering the Tweetstorm

    The November 2020 DOJ-NAR settlement requires that buyer’s agent commissions are apparent to consumers. But that transparency is just a first step in a push to divorce real estate commissions entirely. Should the other DOJ lawsuits succeed, home buyers will negotiate buy-side commissions directly with the buyer’s agent. So, what happens if the disruptors calling for these changes (like Jack Ryan) get their way?
    On this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg discuss Sam DeBord’s passionate Tweetstorm in response to their recent interview with Jack Ryan of REX, clarifying the arguments made by both Jack and Sam and considering how transparency around buyer’s agent commissions is likely to reduce the population of agent-facilitators and drive market share to the true realtor-counselors in the space.
    Rob and Greg describe how a rule ending cooperation and compensation would impact the industry long-term, exploring a possible transition from a buyer’s commission to a flat fee or hourly model. Listen in for insight into the questions industry disruptors raise with regard to the role of the MLS, the brokerage, and the agent in the absence of cooperation and compensation.
    What’s Discussed:  
     
    Lone Wolf’s acquisition of W+R Studios and how Greg & Dan are sharing $1M of the proceeds with their team
    Sam DeBord’s passionate Tweetstorm in response to our interview with Jack Ryan of REX
    What makes a real estate agent a facilitator vs. a counselor
    How transparency around buyer’s agent commissions could significantly reduce the agent population
    How Jack Ryan’s background in politics and high finance informs the way he thinks about making real estate better for consumers
    How the end of cooperative compensation is likely to disrupt real estate referral networks
    The opportunity for vendors to help buyer’s agents demonstrate their value
    Why Rob thinks there could be a transition from buyer’s agent commissions to a flat fee or hourly model
    What agents and brokers might do to take advantage of the required disclosure of buyer’s agent commissions
    The questions Jack Ryan’s line of attack raises re: the value prop of the MLS or the real estate brokerage in the absence of cooperation and compensation
     
    Connect with Rob and Greg: 
     
    Rob’s Website
    Greg’s Website
     
     
    Resources:
     
    Lone Wolf Technologies
    Lone Wolf’s Acquisition of W+R Studios
    Greg’s Post on the Lone Wolf Acquisition
    Sam DeBord on Twitter
    Sam DeBord’s Tweetstorm on Jack Ryan
    Jack Ryan on Industry Relations EP055
    Spencer Rascoff & Austin Allision on Industry Relations EP056
    HousingWire’s Acquisition of REAL Trends
    Jeff Corbett’s Post on Divorcing Real Estate Commissions
    The NAR-DOJ Agreement on MLS Rules
    Buyside
    Biden’s Proposed First-Time Home Buyer Tax Credit
     
    Our Sponsors: 
     
    Cloud Agent Suite
    Notorious VIP

    • 53 min
    Industry Relations Episode 56: Pacaso: A New Proptech Venture – with OGs Spencer Rascoff & Austin Allison

    Industry Relations Episode 56: Pacaso: A New Proptech Venture – with OGs Spencer Rascoff & Austin Allison

    What happens when real estate tech royalty get together to brainstorm business ideas? Not surprisingly, a general discussion of underutilized assets lends itself to a new proptech venture. 
    Spencer Rascoff (former CEO of Zillow) and Austin Allison (co-founder of dotloop) are the Cofounders of Pacaso, a startup working to democratize access to second homeownership. On this episode of the podcast, real estate tech OGs Spencer and Austin join Rob and Greg to discuss how Pacaso solves the problem around the underutilization of second homes and explain how consumers, agents, and brokers alike benefit from the service.
    Spencer and Austin describe how Pacaso manages scheduling and dispute resolution, sharing what differentiates their product from a timeshare or the traditional DIY co-ownership model. Listen in for Spencer and Austin’s insight on current events in the industry, including the radical acceleration of tech adoption through COVID, the long-term impact of the DOJ lawsuit against NAR, and CoStar CEO Andy Florance’s attack on Zillow.
    What’s Discussed:  
    How Pacaso solves the problem around underutilization of second homes
    How consumers, agents, and brokers benefit from Pacaso
    What differentiates Pacaso from a timeshare
    How Pacaso handles scheduling and what happens if one owner uses the home much more than the others
    Why Spencer & Austin don’t see Airbnb as competition
    How Pacaso manages dispute resolution and governance of a property
    Why friction among owners is less likely with Pacaso vs. the DIY model
    Spencer & Austin’s response to the idea that Pacaso is ‘rich people solving rich people problems’
    How COVID has inspired a demand for co-ownership in city centers
    How the digitization of real estate has accelerated through the pandemic and what that means for the industry
    Why buyer side representation will not go away (despite the DOJ lawsuit)
    Andy Florance’s attack on Zillow and how CoStar’s acquisition of Homesnap will impact residential real estate
    Connect with Spencer & Austin:
    Pacaso
    Connect with Rob and Greg: 
    Rob’s Website
    Greg’s Website
    Resources:
    dot.LA
    Zillow’s Q2 2020 Earnings Call
    Jack Ryan on Industry Relations EP055
    CoStar’s Acquisition of Homesnap
    Brad Inman’s Interview with Andy Florance
    The FTC Suit to Block CoStar’s Acquisition of RentPath
    Tomo
    Our Sponsors: 
    Cloud Agent Suite
    Notorious VIP

    • 56 min

Customer Reviews

4.9 out of 5
27 Ratings

27 Ratings

Joel Custodio ,

Love it!

Huge fan of both Rob and Gregg , they truly care for what is best for the RE industry

FrumpyD ,

Great insight

Pleas keep discussing current RE issues. Best public thought exercise in RE.

Adam (Muzikm4n) ,

Fantastic podcast

Great chemistry and informative podcast!

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