Join Mark Moore, a New Testament and Theology Professor at William Jessup University for engaging conversations with guests about cultural topics and their impact on people and society.
The Importance of Advent and the Church Calendar
Mark and Rex discuss the importance and beauty of the Advent season as well as the significance of the structure of the Church year. This episode is a wonderful way to thoughtfully begin the Holiday season and and excellent frame for the coming year.
Models of Evangelism
Historian Priscilla Pope-Levison joins the show to talk about her book Models of Evangelism. The book is a fascinating survey of eight models of evangelism highlighting the diverse ways in which the gospel is proclaimed.
Welcome to Jessup tank. I'm your host Mark Moore,
and he co hosts Rex gurney. And Rex.
We're so excited to have Priscilla Pope Levison on the show. She's an associate dean of Perkins School of Theology at Southern Methodist University, and the author of a recent book entitled models of evangelism.
And she's a second scholar we've had from Southern Methodist University. Yes. Looking forward to talking about evangelism to them.
Yeah, looking forward to kind of diving deeper into these different models, and not just having one way to look at evangelism. Right. So I think you're really going to enjoy the show and get it and get a better view, a more robust view of evangelism.
We are really excited to have you on the show to talk about it, but models of evangelism. And I love First off, I love the nod to Avery Dulles and models of Revelation. Sometimes, in my mind, I'll keep saying models of Revelation. So if I say it today, it's okay. Because Dallas has taken over my mind. But okay, would I I really did appreciate getting into the book, looking at evangelism through the lens of a wide spectrum of models. That is not just one and I think within the church, we often when we hear the word evangelism, we think of it one way. And perhaps we think of it in terms of, you know, going door to door knocking, or, you know, you always hear the pastor who saves everyone on the plane on their cross country flight. And, and so, as you were looking at this, I know from your book, here, it comes from your experience over 20 years of teaching intro to evangelism. Yeah. Was it during that time that you started to kind of isolate or identify these models?
Good question. And let me just say how delighted I am to be on this podcast, I've been looking forward to it as well. And I love your reference to the airplane story. So many evangelism books start with this success, you know, I was on the plane and, and I, all I wanted to do is read and hide myself. And then someone sat next to me, and they just happened to be, you know, I converted them to Jesus Christ. And it's, it's just a hard way to begin a book, if that's not been your experience, which it hasn't been mine, but it also sets up this high expectation for evangelism that it's going to be, you know, such a spectacular success the whenever you do it, so, no, I don't have a airplane story in a book. But, um, I found, well, you know, as a teacher, you try to help students take these ideas and concepts and practices, and route them in daily life. And so I started teaching evangelism when we were at Duke Divinity School, and most of 95% of the students were going to head off into local church ministry. And so you know, how do you help them take this concept, and really give arms and legs and you know, bodies to it and make it a reality. And so I started to incorporate models, and I had actually it was research project, I gave them a list of maybe, maybe 15 models. And they went off and, you know, did their research. And then they were came back and presented to the class. And I just found over the years that that was a time that students really seemed to engage even deeper, they could see the relevance for where they were going to be serving in North or South Carolina, or Virginia, or wherever. And, and so I started then to think about, after a number of years of this, think about a book that would be I could use in the classroom, that churches could use that would present these models, and I chose eight. You know, there's certainly more than that. But I tried to, to pick eight, that first of all, showed a breadth of approaches to evangelism. And also were grounded biblically, and theological
The Wisdom of Your Body
Psychologist and award winning researcher Hillary McBride explores the broken and unhealthy ideas we have inherited about our bodies in her new book The Wisdom of Your Body: Finding Healing, Wholeness, and Connection through Embodied Living.
Everyone welcome to Jessup think I'm your host Mark Moore, and your co host Rex. Rex on the show today, we have Hilary McBride. She's a psychologist and an award winning researcher. And she's going to explore the broken and unhealthy ideas we've inherited about our bodies in her new book, The wisdom of your body, finding healing, wholeness, and connection through embodied living. And even though in our podcast, I guess we are disembodied voices, I think we're going to learn that embodiment is a very, very important part of our spirituality, so important in so important to our life in the world, and our life with God, I really hope you enjoy the show, I
want to start by saying thank you so much for joining us on the show, and really excited to talk about your book. And a main thread that that kind of connects your book is this idea of embodiment. And so I'd love to just start there, and have you kind of tell our listeners what, what is embodiment? And how does that kind of connect the themes of your book. Yeah, that's a great place to start, because the word embodiment is thrown out so much these days. And yet having it clearly defined as something that I find doesn't happen as often as it's used. So I think a great as it again, as an academic, I love starting with defining the terms.
We most of us hear the word embodiment when we think about someone living up their values. So somehow the things that matter up here are kind of up in their head or in flashed and the way that they move through space and time how they are with people how they occupy space. But the the way that I'm using embodiment, and the principle that moves through, like you said, that weaves together, the book is just a little different than that. It's, it's about the felt experience of being a body. So not just being a mind that is carried around by a body, which is how most of us think about ourselves in a western context, particularly those of us who have advanced education and whatnot, there is this kind of over identification, over identification with the mind or our cerebra reality. So embodiment is our way of, of acknowledging that we are also a body, in fact, maybe we're even more a body, but that way of being in space is not something that we think of as ourself. So embodiment, is both the felt and lived experience of being a body engaging with the world, right? We our bodies, in social contexts, but also the the redistribution of identity to be able to say my body is, is not something just that I have a thing. But there is something in my body that actually is me that makes up who I am. And we can start to get into the weeds a little bit with that if, if you'd like naturally there, is there some pushback that people give, when we say like, well, I am my body, because we've spent most of our lives in a western context, trying to subdue the body, to conquer the body to have mind over matter. So people don't like that so much.
Right, right. Yeah, this is this is where we're all about getting in the weeds.
Because that's when that is important. I mean, I think is an interesting place to understand the the idea of getting away from a kind of mind body dualism, to an understanding of I am my body. And I work with students. And sometimes when I say that to students, I can see them kind of squirming like, wait, I'm not. What does it mean to identify with my body or to to say the phrase, I am my body. And there's this, this push back. And I think, maybe a pushback of, of connecting identity with embodiment. We could say we identify, maybe when the church do we identify with our soul, you know, we get preached, this is who you are. And so it's hard for
When Did Sin Begin?
Dr. Loren Haarsma, professor of physics and astronomy at Calvin University, joins the show to talk about his recent book, When Did Sin Begin? Human Evolution and the Doctrine of Original Sin.
Hey everyone. Welcome to Jessup think I'm your host Mark Moore
and your co host Rex gurney.
And Rex on the show. Today, we pulled out the big guns we got Dr. Loren Haarsma. Here is Professor of Physics and Astronomy at Calvin University. And his recent book is when did send begin human evolution in the doctrine of original sin.
And this is not an esoteric discussion, it is something that I actually am very interested in personally, and I found his book very helpful. And so I'm, I'm really looking forward to our conversation with Lauren.
It's an issue that is important for our students. It's an issue that's important for the church. We hope you enjoy.
Lauren, thank you so much for joining us on the show to talk about your new book. And we think it's such an important topic. And it's something that hits close to home to our students here at Jessup, and we talk about it every semester. So just thank you so much for joining. And I
think actually, uh, Mark and I were mentioning that both of us have already used your book, or at least read a couple things from it in our in our classes. So I'm really helpful.
Oh, well, thank you very much. And thank you for this invitation. I'm happy to be here.
Wonderful. Well, as we get going and looking at at the book, when did send began, it'd be great for our listeners, if you could just set up the the basic problem here this this tension between the doctrine of original sin and human evolution.
So there's sort of a core doctrine of original sin, which most of the churches had for most the time and, and sin Augustine, in particular, was really trying to preserve certain core teachings, that God is good and just and holy, that human sin is rebellion against God's will. And that no one can be righteous apart from Christ redeeming work. And I think all that still stands. We're gonna continue to hold all that. Now, Augustine was facing also a number of other questions that were important at that time, like, what is how does God create new each new human soul and his guilt from passed from one generation to the next or not? So Augustine came up with a theory, a way of putting it all together, which worked for him. And for Augustine. He included the assumption that Genesis chapters two and three, were referring to Adam and Eve as literal historical persons only to individuals who lived a few 1000 years ago, from whom we all descend it well, that assumption doesn't fit with what we've learned about human history in the last few centuries. So we want to preserve that core doctrine that theologians have agreed about throughout the centuries now, throughout the centuries, theologians have actually discussed and debated some of those other peripheral issues. There has been disagreement. A few centuries after Augustine, Aquinas came up with another version, which agreed with, uh, with Augustine on many points, disagreed on some other points. And all of this theological history is a really nice treasure trove to sort of use to read from to learn, and and to think about to say, okay, what are we going to do now, to preserve the core doctrine of original sin? It looks like humans didn't all descend from a single pair just a few 1000 years ago.
Right? I often will will kind of couch it like this. When I talk about the science and faith issues in my Christian perspective class, it's like, there's no like silver bullet here. It's like, if you're a young earth creationist, you sort of have a Genesis one problem. But if you're a theistic evolutionist you sort of have a Genesis two and three problem. So, you know, we can't like stop thinking about these things and the implications of of the
First Nations Version: an Indigenous Translation of the New Testament
Lead editor of the First Nations Version, Terry Wildman, joins the show to talk about this excited new indigenous translation of the New Testament. For more info on the translation, go to firstnationsversion.com.
Welcome to Jessup think I'm your host, Mark Moore
and your co host, Rex gurney. And Rex, we
both of us can't be more excited for the show
We have been waiting for this we are having on Terry Wildman. He's the lead editor of the First Nations version of the New Testament.
I've been using that version in my personal devotions for months now. And so when I heard we were gonna have him on the show, I just, it's a real privilege to
be here. Yeah. And as you listen to this show, you're gonna be I think, so excited about this version is put out by InterVarsity press. And it is the New Testament, an indigenous translation of the New Testament, the First Nations version, First Nations version. And you can also go to First Nations version.com, to check it out, to see a sample of it and to see other things. Terry and his wife also do music. You're going to hear all about that on the show. But we just want to promo that in this intro. So that you will check that out. There's such a wonderful translation. And I think you'll really enjoy the show.
What Terry, we are so excited to have you on the show. Rex and I are both, you know, out of all of our guests. We were we were extremely excited for for the interview. So thank you so much for joining us. Hey, it's great to
be one reason, thanks.
One reason I was excited is actually Sherry, I have been using the First Nations version in my personal devotions for about six months now. So when when Mark said we were gonna have you on the show, I was really looking forward to that.
Yeah, and that was so the the full New Testament has just been released, and then it was released in smaller portions up till now.
Yeah, a couple about halfway through the project, we released half of the New Testament. I self published it at that time. And, and then InterVarsity press, saw what we're doing and got involved and said, hey, we'd like to publish this. And so we worked out the details.
That's great. That's great. And, and so what's Yeah, what, maybe self publishing that first part or even how it began, I would love to hear that story of how of how this version took shape.
Oh, definitely. You know, I'd like to say first of all that, you know, we live in Maricopa, Arizona, and we live on the traditional lands of the Pima, and the tahona. Okay. And so I just like to give that acknowledgement in my podcast. So, you know, the first nation version started. You know, back when I lived, my wife, I live for five years on the Hopi Indian Reservation in northern Arizona. We work with YWAM and with the American Baptists at that time, and that's where the idea, or the first seeds of the idea began. And I discovered a Hopi Bible. And I was very excited. It was in the storage room, and nobody was using them in our church. And so I kind of wondered about that. So I began to ask around this, if somebody could read from the Hopi Bible, and I really couldn't find anyone. And it wasn't until much later, I found one person who was able to read a little bit from that Hopi Bible. And then I discovered my wife and I both discovered that this is basically true across the across turtle liner, which we call North America. And so these and the reason for this is the years of assimilation, government policies, boarding schools. At the same time, the translators were translating the Bible into native languages, other branches of the church got involved with the government, in taking those native languages away from us.
So working at cross purposes there. Yeah, so it's
kind of a situation where I'd say over 90% Don't read or s
The Liturgy of Politics
Author Kaitlyn Schiess joins the show to discuss her recent book, The Liturgy of Politics: Spiritual Formation for the Sake of Our Neighbor.
Welcome to Jessup think I'm your host Mark Moore. We are so excited to welcome author Kaitlyn Schiess to the show today. She's the author of the liturgy of politics, spiritual formation for the sake of our neighbor, was released by InterVarsity press in September of 2020. She's a recent graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary and a current Ph.D student at Duke Divinity School. Faith and politics is such an important conversation for the church, we know you're going to get a lot out of the show today. Enjoy.
Thank you so much for for being on the show. And I'm a huge fan of liturgy. So when I saw your title, when it was recommended to me by my friend, Dan, the liturgy got me right away. And so I'd love maybe we can, we can start there by exploring how you how you're bringing these two concepts together, how you're applying this concept of liturgy, to the concept of politics.
Yeah, it was kind of a new word for me to have just like, realizing that the way that I grew up, the fact that there were so many things that were consistent, when I came to church were consistent in my life that were shaping me, I wouldn't have used that word to describe what was happening in my church, certainly, right, and what was happening in my life, you know, either. And so kind of coming to seminary and learning more about spiritual formation and kind of being exposed to different church traditions than the one that I grew up in. It was such a helpful word for me to realize that I was being shaped in church by the words that a pastor used or by the words of a song, but I was also being shaped by like, my physical posture. And the times when I would get up and go and, you know, have communion or the times when we would all say the same words together, or it made me think about the words of a song or the kind of motions we were going through in a different way. Whereas the way that I grew up, if I had heard the word liturgy, I probably would have thought, you know, that sounds old and stodgy and kind of, you know, ritualistic. And I mean, it's helpful language to say, you know, there are some church traditions that are more formal in their liturgy, but the churches I grew up and use the liturgy just as well, they had sort of a schedule a kind of rhythm for things. I was at my parents Church recently. And they do the same exact, you know, two songs, announcements, another song sermon. And that particular Sunday, they did one song, and the pastor who was preaching stood up and started preaching, and we all were like, What is
Yeah, well, he just changed the script once.
Yeah, yeah. So it was helpful to kind of realize, I want to be thoughtful, not just about those kinds of actual things like the sermon and the songs, those are important. But could I also be thoughtful about the order of things and the repetitive nature of things? And how am I being formed, not just by the things that I've typically been intentional about, but all of those other things as well?
Yeah. And so when you apply that to politics, how does that how does that maybe change how you approach politics?
Yeah, it was a really helpful word for me to think about politics to partially because so much of our political participation is more repetitive, and sort of like has all of these deeper meanings involved. Then some other things in our lives normally our you know, when we engage in politics, not only do most of us have sort of habits, about the media that we consume, even just the neighborhoods we live in the schools, we go to the grocery stores we shop at those are all kinds of community building things that are really kind of habits for us. If we have habits about political participation, right, like some of us are in the habit of voting or not, some o
Christian Podcast Taking On Big Issues
Y’all should interview Carl Trueman, author of the Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self!
I appreciate that you guys are trying to take on the big issues, but sometimes it can seem like an echo-chamber. Some of the language used in the latest episode (King’s Letter from Birmingham), and just generally the language surrounding the issue of race in America is pretty divisive and I don’t think it was handled well on this podcast in particular. The term “white fragility” is actually racist. This type of language is by its very nature intended to exclude white people who have dissenting opinions. If you want to start a conversation, it is a good idea to stop using terms like this. I say this as a fellow believer in the saving grace of Jesus Christ available to all people, and also as a big fan of the podcast. 5 stars because I am grateful for the thought provoking discussion and christian perspectives.
The absolutely only problem with this podcast is that they post episodes every other week. 2 per week would be DOPE! #wishfulthinking
Tackling topics I care about
I’m always on the lookout for new podcast especially ones who take a look at Christianity and tackle difficult topics and questions. Most Christian podcasts can be either too cheesy, to agreeable, or too technical that I get lost. This podcast does a good job of taking on ideas that aren’t simple and addressing them in a way that challenges you and also helps you learn. They do all of this while remaining entertaining and not being cheesy. Keep up the great work everyone!!!!