Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler Richard Ostler

** This podcast mentions suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text chat 988**

Guest host Tonya Miller interviews Kyle Jones, M.D., who talks about his most recent book, “When All Hope Seems Lost: A Gospel Perspective on Mental Illness in Youth,” which will be released later this month. Kyle is a Family Practice physician who works primarily with neurodivergent individuals and their families. He is active in the Church, and he and his wife are the parents of four children.

Kyle shares his story of first being diagnosed with mental illness as a student, with significant worsening during his medical residency. This is the topic of his first book: “Fallible: A Memoir of a Young Physician’s Struggle with Mental Illness.” He talks about noticing mood disorder symptoms when he was a teenager, but not realizing that he was dealing with mental illness at the time. The cumulative effects of the stress he experienced as a medical student and resident led him to eventually learn that he was living with anxiety and depression, for which he still takes medication and participates in therapy. Kyle describes ways that he started to share his story with other physicians and learned that he was not as alone as he feared. From there, he has continued to develop opportunities for providing outreach and education about mental illness, especially for members of the Church. He began to realize that there are not many resources about mental illness for youth in the Church, along with ongoing myths and stigma about the relation of mental illness to the gospel, which led him to write this book.

Kyle describes the complexities that youth in the Church face, and ways that specific gospel principles can help them heal, even when, in some cases, there is no “cure” for what they are dealing with. He shares stories of teens who have worked though challenges with mental illness that he interviewed for his book. He also interviewed mental health professionals who work with teens and talks about some of the insights they provide. Kyle refers to what he calls the “Broken Record” messages of the gospel that can bolster youth who fear they have done something “wrong” to “cause” their mental illness. They are: 1) Jesus loves you, no matter what, 2) Mental illness is not your fault, and 3) There are people here to help.

I am very grateful for Kyle’s willingness to share his story and perspectives around ways that principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ can ground and empower youth if they are experiencing mental illness while simultaneously navigating the complexities of life.

As a side note, I’m focusing only on sharing stories associated with the Queer-LDS experience now. However, if you would like to share your story about a different Church- or gospel-related topic on Listen, Learn and Love, please contact Tonya about the possibility of working with her as my guest-host (e-mail Tonya at tonya@cottonwood.care).

Links for Kyle’s books and other resources are found below.
www.kylebradfordjones.com
Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram: @kbjones11
Previous books: www.amazon.com/stores/Kyle-Bradford-Jones/author/B082WKSNYY?
When All Hope Seems Lost: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYCXFVB9

My friend Jashon Ray Fabia (Age 33, single, LDS, RM, BYU-H grad in Psychology and Music, finishing Master's in Music Therapy) bravely shares his story as a queer Filipino Latter-day Saint (our first guest from the Philippines) and his new book (see show notes).

Jashon shares the shame he felt which continued until he came out to himself in his mid-20’s and others allowing Jashon to feel authentic and reduce/eliminate shame. It is a brave story of working through suicidal ideation to find hope and peace. Jashon talks about his focus on service to help other marginalized group, future projects and hopes for other queer Filipinos.

Jashon concludes with reconciliation with his parents including grace with family members along this journey. Thank you, Jashon, for being on the podcast, writing your book, and sharing your story to give hope to others. You are a good man doing much healing in our world. Glad to have you on the podcast.

Links:

Jashon’s book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1948218917

Facebook Group to Support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

**This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat *988**

My friend Erik Thompson (Age 40, single, active LDS, RM) bravely shares his story with a heart full of desire to give others hope. Erik vulnerable and bravely talks about:

Being a survivor of sexual abuse at age 13.
Spiritual OCD (Scrupulosity).
Porn and masturbation.
Coming home from his mission (after a suicide attempt) at 9 months.
Need for love and belonging.
Becoming sexually active—in unsafe situations—drug use—and more suicidal ideation.
Healing words from a senior Church leader including the “Savior is thrilled with you” and returning to Church activity.
You are here to love.
Upcoming NorthStar Conference.

Erik can authentically teach the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ to heal us from pain and to help us repent because Erik has the courage to share his story—helping us all understand that we too can find hope in our story—even the most difficult times of our lives. Part of Erik’s story is on the Church’s YouTube channel (see show notes).

Thank you, Erik, for being on the podcast. You are one of my new heroes. Your story will help so many. You are a good man.

Links:

Erik’s Church YouTube: youtu.be/7avoFnympIg?si=vEBk7_YX709HGqfM

NorthStar Conference: allevents.in/salt%20lake%20city/2024-north-star-conference/10000761893222137

Erik’s e-mail: erikguy@gmail.com

Erik’s cell: 202-595-4747

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@etpiano83?_t=8lNeC55a9hC&_r=1

Scrupulosity Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/depression-mental-illness-podcasts

Richard Ostler Free Chapter Links:

Ending Porn Use: www.dropbox.com/s/w2ex40l4se85wku/Chapter%204%20Ending%20Pornography%20Use.%20%20Listen%20Learn%20and%20Love%2C%20Improving%20Latter-day%20Saint%20Culture.pdf?dl=0

Hope Filled Repentance: www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1lo38ejspdzwfxngaaotm/Chapter-5-Hope-Filled-Repentance.-Listen-Learn-and-Love-Improving-Lattter-day-Saint-Culture.pdf?rlkey=18kd8tqtmls60b14y7ilc1f2i&dl=0

Overcoming Scrupulosity: www.dropbox.com/s/i314vw5im0khzia/Chapter%207%20Overcoming%20Scrupulosity%20%28Religious%20ODC%29.pdf?dl=0

My friends Cameo and Cooper Johnson (LDS parents of 4 children, live in Flagstaff AZ, Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse Practitioners) join us to share their story from the perspective of both LDS parents of a queer daughter (RM, engaged to another RM woman) and their professional work specializing in supporting LDS LGBTQ individuals and families. In the episode, the Johnsons bring unique and helpful perspectives from their experience as parents and also work as mental health practitioners that help all of us.

Some of the topics covered by the Johnsons include:

1. Why they are excited and supportive of their daughter’s same-sex marriage.
2. Why they stay members of the Church.
3. What gives them hope and peace for their “eternal family”.
4. What gives them hope for the future of the Church.
5. The difference between core values and core beliefs.
6. How to better see and support families who fit “outside of the idealized version”.
7. The parable of the Good Samaritan.
8. How personal growth often occurs “when we look inward and check ourselves.”

This is one of the best podcasts we’ve done as the Johnsons bring their clinical experience and parental experience to help us better love and support our queer family members and friends. I encourage you to listen to this episode and share it with others.

Thank you, Cameo and Cooper Johnson, for being on the podcast and your work to help bring us together as the same human family. Honored to have you on the podcast!

Links:

Cameo Johnson, PMHNP
Ponderosa Psychiatry
https://www.ponderosapsychiatry.com/
info@ponderosapsychiatry.com
Psychology Today Profile: https://www.psychologytoday.com/profile/737606

Cooper Johnson, PMHNP
Advanced Mental Health and Wellness
https://advancedmhw.com/
support@advancedmhw.com
Psychology Today Profile: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/psychiatrists/advanced-mental-health-wellness-williams-az/441627

My friend Nate Miller (grew up in Davis County, lives in Salt Lake County, Philippines RM, U of U graduation, no longer attending church) joins us to share his story. Nate starts with reading a powerful journal entry/letter during his mission that shares his journey (since age 6) of navigating being different and eventually realizing he is gay.

Nate is so vulnerable, honest—with a gift of words to share his journey. I was so moved with Nate’s courage to be so honest—which helps us better understand what it is like to be alone figuring out one’s sexual orientation—and gives us insights what we can do to improve our culture to better support our queer friends.

Nate talks about finding hope about his future and his family’s unconditional love and support. Nate also talks about advice he would give to his younger self “who was listening five years ago”.

Like many of our episodes, I continue to be moved by brave people willing to share their stories out of love to help others find hope in their lives. I was also moved by Nate’s family and their words of unconditional love and support—this is a beautiful family love story.

This is also a good podcast on principles to keep the family circle together and strong when a family member steps away from the church.

Thank you, Nate, for your courage to be on the podcast. You are a good man—your story will help so many. You have a great life ahead of you. All my love and respect to you and the Miller family.

Links: Facebook Group to Support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

Nate Miler on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nate.miller.129142

Nate Miller on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/itsnertme/

My friend James Smart (RM, age 20, from Rexburg Idaho, Santa Rosa CA missionary, at BYU) joins us to bravely share his story. James starts with reading his powerful and well-written coming out post sharing his story growing up knowing he was different, dealing with shame and associated coping mechanisms, deciding to serve a mission, and finding great healing and hope on his mission. It is a deeply authentic story of being honest, vulnerable, finding God, and finding peace that James is exactly who God created and wants him to be.

We then discuss his coming out post and his future.

I was so moved listening to James and his courage to be open and his ability to help others find God, remove shame, and find hope in their lives. I was also moved by James spiritual maturity and understanding of core gospel principles to navigate his future.

If you are a LGBTQ Latter-day Saint, a parent of a queer child, an ally, or a local leader—I encourage you to listen to James’ story and share it with others. Thank you, James, for being on the podcast. You are a good man and will continue to bless many lives. Honored to have you on the podcast.

Links:

James Google Document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yK07P9h3mNY9YxdzYhmmHRdAW7uyaH1TWAUbIikPhcw/edit?fbclid=IwAR38ebW2wd3DbxKLYhGNoHc3Y4xl1Qs5xxnH3g2Twb09_pYQpGZduTYdB34

James’ e-mail: jimmydsmart@gmail.com

James’ cell: 208-390-7722

James’ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100020344095709

James’ Instagram: @james.d.smart