Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler Richard Ostler

My friends Dr. Kristine Coons (Internal Medicine Physician, RM) and her wife Laura (mother of four, BYU grad) join us from Hawaii where they are celebrating their 20th wedding anniversary to share their remarkable story.

Kristine talks about her long-term gender dysphoria and coming out her wife in 2014. They talk about their “lifeline” of communication and the gospel to help them stay committed in their marriage and to navigate this road. Laura talks about supporting her wife as she transitioned and saw first-hand their improvement in her life. They both talk about how they are and continue to be soulmates. Their story is a beautiful love story.

Kristine talks about digging into the science of gender dysphoria and discovering through genetics that she has congenital hypogonadotripic hypogonadism (CHH) and how they helps explain how she feels. Kristine also shares her suicidal plans and how she got help (including calling the suicide crisis line) and how she is now in a much better place.

This is a powerful podcast to better see, understand, and support transgender Latter-day Saints. I was so moved listening to Kristine and Laura. “When we know better, we do better.”

Thank you, Kristine and Laura, for being on the podcast. You two are awesome and are helping us better create Zion.


Links:

60 Minutes Episode: youtu.be/1Rw2cfXxnwE?si=nLrYzMuIUVjHjv_j

Kristine’s YouTube Channel: youtube.com/@KristineCoons?si=akQ7hjSfchtJtcKN

More about CHH: www.genomicseducation.hee.nhs.uk/genotes/knowledge-hub/congenital-hypogonadotropic-hypogonadism/

Latter-day Stonecathers FB Post: www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid031CaN5MDFdpANwe2sgv1CG1gg4a5gioRqEFQT5ucgkiH93X3yRJ7NNjqYzRG7SVaAl&id=100091855963860

Other Trans Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/transgender-and-more-podcasts

LDS Church Website: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/transgender

Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group:
www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

Richard Ostler Books: www.papaostler.com

My friend Jessi Duncan (married mother of four, wife of Bradon Duncan Episode 687, lives in Arkansas, court appointed advocate for foster children, RM) joins us to share her story. Jessi talks about her journey as a black Latter-day Saint and the racism that is still present in church culture and broader society. She gives specific examples, how we need to own/teach our past to “understand the darkness”, and ways we can do better. She talks about how this is part of President Nelson’s charge to “to lead out in abandoning attitudes and actions of prejudice.”

Jessi also talks about being the straight partner in a mixed-orientation marriage (he husband Bradon is gay and came out to her after 13 years of marriage in 2020). She talks about the pain of her road and the ministering principle of “ongoing conversations” of these important and tender topics. She talks about her Bishop and Stake President (very helpful).

Jessi has some “mic drop” comments like:
Listening is how we keep the second great commandment.
Hope changes our capacity to endure.
Scripture study should be uncomfortable—challenging us to change.

Jessi also talks about losing their son Ben to leukemia at age 4. Jessi concludes with a powerful poem. You can get a copy of the poem via the link in the show notes.

Jessi’s story and insights provides some of the best principles to better create Zion and gather Israel. Jessi—in an effective way—invites us to be uncomfortable leading us to personal growth to better see, understand, support and love others. I was so moved listening to Jessi. Felt I was listening to of the accomplished theologians of our day.

Thank you, Jessi, for being on the podcast. You story will help so many. You are one of my new heroes!

Links:

Poem: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/f7eyptn7pzw23ww96ifkh/It-s-not-your-job-to-hurt-For-Episode-698.docx?rlkey=9grn9x0vehu4dusrwzltmcsdg&dl=0

Richard Ostler Books: www.papaostler.com

Index of Podcasts: https://listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

My dear friend (and former YSA) Tyler Shaw (RM, active Latter-day Saint, works for the Church) joins us to share his unexpected life reality of being single. Tyler talks about returning from his mission and believed his life plan was to get married around age 24-25, have children, and then be done having children around age 30.

Well, that is not how life is turning out for Tyler.

Tyler talks about how he is managing a life different than he expected. It is a story of courage, faith, and temple attendance to see the big picture. It is also a story of not looking backwards with regret or the unhealthy road of “what is wrong with me”.

If your life has unexpected twists and turns and it not exactly as you imaged it in your younger years, Tyler’s story will help you. Tyler has this ability to create grace for ourselves, continue to work to improve, and temple attendance to be reminded of the big picture to find peace and perspective in our current journey.

Honored to have you on the podcast Tyler. You are a good man and friend. Your story will help so many.

Links:

Richard Ostler’s books: https://www.papaostler.com/

Index of podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

My friend Chris Rich (married mother of three, husband and all three children stepped away from the Church, grew up in SLC, lives in Western Massachusetts, professional life coach) joins us to share her story. Chris talks learning to process the emotions (worried, angry, disappointment, resentment, and grief) of having family members leave the church and learning how to get through those emotions to find peace. Chris talks about the constant thought of “this isn’t what I signed up for” but learning to get past that perspective into a more healthy and sustainable mindset.

Chris talks about her efforts to get her husband back to church—but then deciding “my job is to love, Jesus job is to save”. She talks about moving beyond “the only way to be happy is if my husband comes back to church.” Chris also talks about “clean pain” and “dirty pain” and how dirty pain can result in getting stuck (like a hamster wheel) and how to move beyond that pain. Chris talks about loving and supporting her family now. Seeing the good in their lives and contributions to society. Chris talks about how “fear is a hard emotion to parent from” and her end goal now with her family is “connection”.

This is one of the best podcasts we’ve done to find peace, hope, and love when family members leave the church. I was so moved listening to Chris’s insights—including gospel insights, scriptures, talks and the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

Thank you, Chris, for being on the podcast. I hope your episode is shared far and wide. Your work is so needed in our community. Thank you for being on our podcast—you are awesome!

Links:

a) Chris Rich’s coaching site: https://www.chrisrichcoaching.com/

b) Chris’s podcast (The Mixed Faith Relationship Podcast): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mixed-faith-relationship-podcast/id1627333149

c) Elder Uchtdorf talk: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2011/11/general-relief-society-meeting/forget-me-not?lang=eng

d) Richard Ostler Books: papaostler.com

e) Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

My dear friends Matt and Heather Robertson (married 30 years, three children) join us to share their story of family unity, love, and respect for all family members in the various Church paths they are walking. Matt and Heather talk about Matt’s long journey which eventually led to Matt no longer participating in the Church and then resigning in October 2022. Matt and Heather (who still attends and holds a calling) talk about how they learned to talk about difficult subjects, listen, hold space for different perspectives/conclusions/experiences, and be united in their love for each other and their children. It is a beautiful love story based on principles of love, respect, communication, and grace.

Heather talks about how her dreams/hopes for her family changed as her husband and all three children (two of which are LGBTQ) have stepped away from the church—and how she finds peace and hope. They talk about “let heaven take care of heaven, we will have no empty chairs now”.

Matt talks about a wonderful local Bishop—who was curious, listened, and validated his feelings. It is a wonderful ministering insight into preserving the relationship—even if a ward member steps away or resigns. Matt is clear he is not inviting others to take his path—just sharing his story. Part of that story is a desire expressed in his resignation letter to his Bishop to stay involved with the ward community and help as needed. Matt feels that support as he is often asked to help (such as substituting playing the piano in primary).

This one of the most powerful podcasts about how a mixed-faith marriage can and does work—and how Matt and Heather have learned new skills to make their marriage even stronger. If you are in a family where some are not participating in the Church and want to preserve the family relationship and have “no empty chairs” this podcast will help you. But it takes work on both those staying in the church and those stepping away.

Thank you, Matt and Heather. I was so moved hearing you share your story. Your story will help so many. Honored to have you on the podcast.

Links:

Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group:
facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

Richard Ostler Books: papaostler.com

Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

This episode is the launch of my new book called “Listen, Learn and Love: Building the Good Ship Zion”. The “Good Ship Zion” represents The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and all the good it can bring into our lives. But not everyone feels welcome and secure in the boat. Instead of putting the responsibility on others to get comfortable—or to figuratively stop rocking the boat—we can all work in our circles of influence to improve the Good Ship Zion for everyone, as we journey together to the safe harbor of God’s presence.

Chapters:
Loving members who are “foyer sitters”
Is it okay to turn down a calling?
Ministering to those with church-generated pain or trauma
How should we treat those who leave the Church?
Supporting members dealing with death
Better support for single Latter-day Saints
Supporting couples in their decisions about children.

Much of the content of the book are Latter-day Saints sharing these perspectives. They are some of my heroes. I encourage everyone to read the book and share it with others. And please leave a review on Amazon and Deseret Book (there in a month or two).

All my love, Richard

Book Link: amazon.com/dp/1462145280

Introduction: www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/z3dxpofy8u5e9jw9c446d/Introduction.pdf?rlkey=ksmzm0wcytnafl2hqln6fotvu&dl=0

Stockton Powers Memorial Scholarship: standingforstockton.com/