Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas Tommy Thomas

[00:00:00] Vonna Laue: One of the indicators for nonprofits that anyone who hears me speak knows that I'm always going to harp on a little bit, and that is available cash. Not just cash, because you can look at the balance sheet and see, wow, we've got $700,000 in cash. If that's what the board looks at and starts making decisions based on, you could find yourself in trouble because the available cash that I'm talking about takes that cash number, but then it subtracts two things out of there.
[00:00:33] Vonna Laue: It subtracts the things that we're going to pay this week. So maybe we've got payroll coming up this week and we've got a bunch of accounts we're going to pay. I'm going to take that out of there. And I'm also going to take out any temporarily restricted funds that have been given by donors for a specific purpose.
If those amounts are held in that cash number, I'm going to back those out. If you back out those two things, that $700,000 might be $200,000. And that board and those leaders are going to make significantly different decisions based on $700,000 versus $200,000.  Right? That's a financial metric.
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[00:01:10] Tommy Thomas: You and I have a mutual friend, Alec Hill, former President of InterVarsity. And he wrote of some of the pain and suffering he experienced while being the President of Intervarsity. And he writes, if we pause and reflect long enough, pain is a great teacher. Our character can be transformed more through a day of suffering than a month of study.
As I think about your book that's coming out here in a couple of weeks, I would imagine that played into the writing of the book.
[00:01:39] Vonna Laue: You are absolutely correct. So, the book is Glad I Didn't Know, and then it's subtitled Lessons Learned Through Life's Challenges and Unexpected Blessings, so it absolutely does play into that.
The premise of the book is that there are a lot of difficult things that we go through that if we'd known in advance, we would have done everything we could to avoid those, but if we had avoided those, we'd have missed out on what God had planned for us and the lessons that we learned as a result of it.
[00:02:12] Vonna Laue: The flip side of that is also the unexpected blessings. And when I look at things like serving on the World Vision Board, if someone had told me in advance, you're going to be on the World Vision Board. I'd have thought, okay, I need this education and I need this experience and I need to network with this person, and I'd have totally messed it up.
But I just faithfully follow one thing to the next. And so would totally agree with Alec there. And I'm glad I don't know a lot of the things that I'm going to go through. And each time we go through something, it makes it a little bit easier the next time to look back on the faithfulness of God and realize, okay, we're going to come out the other side of this and there will be blessings as a result of it, even though it's a challenge at the time.
[00:03:01] Tommy Thomas: What lesson did you learn from writing this book? A real practical question.
[00:03:07] Vonna Laue: Yeah. One of the things that just in the process that I learned initially, I had chapters for the whole book, and I was just going to write their life stories. And then in some discussions and some just careful consideration, I realized if I did that, it would be really easy for a reader to say, oh, that's nice for that person and dismiss it.
And the applicability that it had to their lives. And so, within the book, there are 16 other contributors that all contributed a story of their life that they were glad they didn't know. And so, the encouragement there and just the lesson was if we're willing to be honest with ourselves and honest with those around us, we've all got those stories and in sharing them, there is a blessing to be had both by the giver and the receiver.
[00:04:09] Vonna Laue: Tommy, I had a number of people that wrote chapter

[00:00:00] Vonna Laue: I started working when I was 13 at Dairy Queen. And if you work at a fast food restaurant, at least at that time, more than six or nine months, you're in a leadership position and you've got a crew that works with you.
So I had that opportunity. And one of the biggest things looking back on it, and I didn't actually realize that until our girls got involved, but 4H was huge in my life. And at the time it was fun. I used to horse show and did a lot of the competitions at the county and state level.
But when I then took our daughter to a 4H meeting and realized, wow, this is where I learned a lot of my leadership skills. They operate with Robert's rules of order and the kids run the meetings and they're elected to positions. And so I had that opportunity at a really young age.
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[00:00:55] Tommy Thomas: Our guest today is Vonna Laue. Vonna is a distinguished leader in the nonprofit sector, particularly known for her extensive work with churches and ministries. Early in her career, she served as a partner for a national CPA firm specializing in audit, tax, and advisory services for the nonprofit sector.
She later took on the role as Executive Vice President at the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, where she focused on enhancing trust within the church and ministry communities. Her experience is widely recognized. She has authored multiple articles, co-authored three books, frequently speaks at national and regional conferences, and in 2010, she was inducted into the Church Management Hall of Fame, underscoring her significant contributions to the field.
[00:01:45] Tommy Thomas: Vonna, Welcome to NextGen Nonprofit Leadership.
[00:01:48] Vonna Laue: Tommy, thanks for having me. It's great to be here.
[00:01:50] Tommy Thomas: I've been looking forward to this for a long time. I first met you; I don't know how many years ago it was, but, Rich Stearns, the then President of World Vision had asked me to help him find some board members.
[00:02:02] Tommy Thomas: He gave me some parameters and you were the one of the ones that identified. So, I guess that was our first encounter.
[00:02:12] Vonna Laue: It was and that was 2016.
[00:02:14] Tommy Thomas: In the words of Crosby, Stills, Nash Young, so much water has passed underneath the bridge since then.
[00:02:24] Vonna Laue: Amen to that.
[00:02:26] Tommy Thomas: Let's give us a few start up questions. I'm always curious, and I don't know these things about you. Before we get too deep into your professional career, take me into your childhood. What was childhood like?
[00:02:39] Vonna Laue: I always enjoy telling people that think about birth order, that I'm a fairly complicated person because I was an only child and that automatically raises some red flags for some people.
[00:02:53] Vonna Laue: And then when I was eight, my parents divorced and both remarried within about a one-year timeframe, and I became a middle child in two families. So, if you're gonna play the birth order game, I'm gonna give you a lot of information to mull over in that.
[00:03:09] Tommy Thomas:  Where was your childhood geographically?
[00:03:13] Vonna Laue: Absolutely. I grew up in South Dakota, which is one of the smallest populated states in the country. There were two stop lights in the town my mom was in and one stop  light in the town my dad was in. We may get into it more, but I had the privilege of going to a Christian school. And so, I tell people there were three in my graduating high school class.
It was a definitely small-town America, and everyone knew what you were doing pretty much all the time.
[00:03:46] Tommy Thomas: Now we've heard these stories; Even my parents who were raised in Alabama and Georgia, they didn't have the snow part, but they had the part about walking to school five to six miles a day uphill.
In South Dakota, did you have to walk to school in the snow several miles a day?
[00:04:03] Vonna Laue: I wa

[00:00:00] Sergey Bogza: Obviously there are strengths and weaknesses in each generation.  The conductor is how to utilize the strengths. Every generation brings a perspective. It's certainly a fascinating process working with the baby boomers, so to speak. The work ethic - you're going to get stuff done with baby boomers.  They just know how to get stuff done, and they know how to work, and show up on time, and be diligent in their work.
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[00:00:38] Tommy Thomas: Sergey delves into the unique dynamics of working with different generations within an orchestra, highlighting how he leverages the strengths of each age group while minimizing their weaknesses.
He discusses the strategic process of assembling and leading an orchestra, emphasizing the importance of understanding each member's skill set before making changes.
He also reflects on the balance between rigorous rehearsals and the freedom of live performances, sharing his philosophy on leadership and creativity in the fine arts.
This episode is a deep dive into the art of orchestral leadership and the life lessons that come with it, making it a must-listen for anyone interested in leadership, teamwork, and the performing arts.
Let’s pick up where we left off last week.
[00:01:40] Tommy Thomas: I want to go to I guess how you assemble an orchestra like, and we'll just take Panama City.  When you came to town you had a group of people that I suppose were members of the symphony. How do you build the team?  Did you have to go out and bring new people in? Did you have to release some that weren't up to what you thought might be possible?
[00:02:07] Sergey Bogza: Right? There's a little bit of both. And what I didn't want to do is to be a one-chapter hero or a one act hero act, or I don't know the best way to describe it.
And it all started with, first of all, trying to understand everyone's skill set and not making any changes right away. I wanted to become an informed, compassionate leader first, before initiating any changes, before releasing anyone, before recruiting anyone. I wanted to give everyone a fair shot.
[00:02:54] Sergey Bogza: I also wanted to give myself a fair shot of getting a clear understanding of where we are as an orchestra from a leadership perspective, from talent depth, and get a few concerts under my belt to see here's where we are and to be able to assess and get a clear understanding of where we are as an orchestra.
And then only after that, start making strategic decisions. How do we become a better orchestra? So, the first three, four or five months I was in the data collection phase of talking to people, interviewing orchestra members, and having chamber concerts with selected orchestra musicians.
And after I got a clear picture of where we were, only after that, we started making strategic moves, whether it was by way of an audition, or by way of closely working with people.
[00:04:00] Tommy Thomas: I want to ask you an innovative kind of question, as it relates to the orchestra. Is there room for the orchestra members to innovate or be creative, or is that pretty much in the hands of the conductor?
[00:04:17] Sergey Bogza: It's a little bit of both, frankly. And it's more on the conductor. The conductor will shape more, for example, with a piece that the orchestra has never done, or with a brand-new work that nobody knows. A world premiere.
It's the conductor that has a thing called the score where everyone's parts are in it and the role of the conductor is to take all of that data and assimilate it into a vision and then communicate that vision to the musicians or traditional works.
For example, classical works that everybody has played.  It is a much more collaborative process. Everybody brings something to the table. It’s a collaborative process and they offer and then we kind of mold together into one vision that we present to the audience. So, it's a little bit of both. If I'm being 100 percent hon

[00:00:00] Sergey Bogza: In Russia, before you went to first grade, it was the parent's responsibility, at least that's what my mom said, for her to teach us how to read and write and know multiplication tables up to 12.
So, a first grader starting school knows how to read, write, and knows multiplication up to 12. And so, the entire summer preparing for school exams was my mom drilling me on how to write cursive, how to read, and drilling on multiplication tables. And then there was a time where you have to go and pass the exam and they identified your placement.
And I remember it was a hundred percent or one mistake that I made and the sense of accomplishment. After four months of just mom working with you every day, just passing with flying colors. I remember that being such a validation of the efforts that you've put in.
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[00:02:51] Tommy Thomas: Our guest today is Sergey Bogza, Conductor and Music Director of the Panama City Symphony. When you talk with Sergey, the conversation could go a lot of ways. We could talk about how he excels as an endurance athlete, regularly competing in ultra marathons and long-distance bike rides.
We could talk about his proficiency in the kitchen, as it relates to Slavic cuisine. Or we can talk about his two dogs, Sampson and Stella, and how they help him train for his endurance feats. We'll have to leave those topics for another day, because today I want to talk with him about his love for music and his journey from immigrating to the United States in 1995 to becoming the Conductor and Music Director of the Panama City Symphony.
[00:03:40] Tommy Thomas: Welcome to Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership.
[00:03:42] Sergey Bogza:: Thank you for having me.
[00:03:45] Tommy Thomas:  One of the benefits that I've derived from being a Rotarian is the good speakers we have. And I remember you speaking to our club in Panama City, probably a year and a half or so ago back when we met at the Yacht Club.
A lot of times my listeners want to know how I get these guests. And that's how I got Sergey.  Before we dig too much into your professional career I'd like to go back to your childhood. I know you're an immigrant. Can you tell us a little bit about that story?
[00:04:14] Sergey Bogza: Sure. We moved to the United States in 1995. This was just a few years after the fall of the Soviet Union. My dad had a big family, and he wasn't sure of what the future might be, and he didn't see a lot of opportunities. Mid 90s in Russia was a tough time and when the borders opened and we had a chance to immigrate to the land of milk and honey and opportunity, even though we've never been, my dad took a risk and moved us to the United States. And it's one of the things that we're always grateful to him, to our mom for taking that chance and giving us the opportunity of making a life here in America.
[00:05:04] Tommy Thomas: When I talk to someone who immigrated, I have a hard enough time with English as a native speaker.  Did you speak English fluently when you came?
[00:05:13] Sergey Bogza: Oh, no. Zero.
[00:05:16] Tommy Thomas:  What grade would you have been? Were you a bit in school by then or just starting?
[00:05:21] Sergey Bogza: I was nine when I moved to the United States. And I was completing second grade in Russia. And when we immigrated to the United States, they ran all the tests.
And zero English, but, geography, math, arithmetic. It was pretty advanced in the way I was doing it. So, they put me in fourth grade.  I was supposed to finish second grade in Russia. We moved to the United States and I ended up finishing fourth grade, so I got a clear leap.
[00:05:55] Tommy Thomas:  What's your happiest memory of childhood?
[00:06:01] Sergey Bogza: Happy childhood in Russia, let me think.
[00:06:04] Tommy Thomas: Or you could do it post nine-year-old.
[00:06:07] Sergey Bogza: I think probably two happiest memories that I can think of is in Russia, before you went to first grade,

[00:00:00] Karen Marsdale: I might be a little bit averse to risks, but because I learned so early on by being really naive and thinking that my husband and I could run a business that really needed a lot more cash flow and ready cash that we just didn't have.
[00:00:13] Karen Marsdale: But because I failed and from that failure, we created success. And when I say success, we were able to get back on track and work hard and buy a house and send our kids to college. And, that early failure made me feel that if I could do that and come back from it, I'm not really afraid to fail.
[00:00:38] Tommy Thomas: This week, we're resuming the conversation we started last week with Karen Marsdale, the co-director of Hannah's Hope in Berks County, Pennsylvania. Hannah’s Hope is dedicated to helping women with children who are facing homelessness in Berks County. The primary focus is on women, who despite their current situation, sheltered potential and determination to rebuild their lives. Karen will also explain how she and her co-director have split senior leadership duties to play to their individual strengths. While this sometimes leads to complications, it's working wonderfully at Hannah's Hope. Let's pick up where we left off last week.
[00:01:25] Tommy Thomas: Give us a thumbnail sketch of Hannah's Hope and the trust that y'all have there in Berks County.
[00:01:31] Karen Marsdale: Okay, so I'm just going to give a little bit of an educational piece here for about two minutes in the world of homelessness. And we see it of course now. It's front and center everywhere we go in terms of, media or, in seeing people on the street. There's a continuum of homelessness.
[00:01:51] Karen Marsdale: And we teach people all the time that when you see one homeless person, there are people in the continuum that are chronically homeless. Those might be people who are addicted and they don't want to give up their addiction. They're going to be on the street. They're going to be in tent camps.
[00:02:06] Karen Marsdale: They're not going to be moved into the next .They're not somebody who has had one thing happen. And now they have become homeless. Then you have people who are homeless because of an incident or something that's happened in their life and they need a certain amount of care.
[00:02:23] Karen Marsdale: What we do at Hannah's is very focused on women with children who are in that place where they have abilities. And we have a very robust application process, three interviews. One of the interviews usually encompasses our trauma therapist, because she's getting from the where is this person in their mental health?
[00:02:48] Karen Marsdale: How do we check their mental health? We look at where they've been in terms of, have they ever had a job? So women that come to us and I say this, and it might sound a bit on feeling, but we're looking for women who you would say would be the advanced placement or the A+ women who find themselves in a homeless situation who really have the ability, the grit.
[00:03:12] Karen Marsdale: And again, when I say ability, it's not just the want to, but do they have the ability to learn skills that can help them to get a a job or go to classes that they can get training, some sort of basic training so that they can get a living wage job. So our goal is to take women for 12 to 18 months, teach them life skills.
[00:03:35] Karen Marsdale: Business skills, all the skills that they need. It can be things like even how to clean, how to cook. Essentially they might not have some of these skills, but they have some of them and they've not learned all of them. But we want to get them to a place ultimately where they can live independently for the rest of their lives with their children without necessarily having a mate. And one of the biggest problems that we see, particularly with women with children, and this is why there's domestic violence and abuse, is the fact that they've never had the backgroun

[00:00:00] Karen Marsdale: I wanted to be a ballet dancer and I was very serious and was in ballet lessons and modern dance lessons almost every day of the week by the time I was in junior high.
I went to dance camp in the summer, went to the University of Connecticut for a summer with the Martha Graham School of Dance. And then after my senior year of high school, I spent six years in New York doing a program with the Joffrey School of Ballet. My ultimate dream was to go to Juilliard.
I did not make the cut. And I think that should have been a little bit of a signal because it's like dance is professional sports one in, how many million really become the prima ballerina at the New York city ballet.
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[00:01:45] Tommy Thomas: Our guest today is Karen Marsdale, a longtime contributor to the economic vibrancy of Berks County, Pennsylvania.
Karen spent almost 27 years in senior leadership roles with the Reading Chamber of Commerce and Industry before joining Hannah's Hope as co-executive director. She took her BA in fashion merchandising and business management from Stevens College and serves on the boards of several nonprofits in and around Berks County.
Karen, welcome to NextGen Nonprofit Leadership.
[00:02:16] Karen Marsdale: Thank you, Tommy. It's a pleasure to be here.
[00:02:20] Tommy Thomas: I'm a huge fan of all that a well-led Chamber of Commerce can do over the years I've observed, what good things happen when the Chamber takes a role in promoting economics and also when they take a role in incorporating the non-profit sector into the life of a community because I think that's important.
When I learned of your background, I just jumped at the chance to have somebody who's done that and then migrated over into the role with Hannah's Hope. Again, thank you for joining us. Now before we dig too deep into your multi-pronged career, let's go back towards the beginning.
Take me into your childhood and what two or three things do you remember that maybe has contributed to you being the person you are today?
[00:03:06] Karen Marsdale: I'm an only child. And so that in the era that I was born and raised, that was a bit unique because big families were more the norm then than they are now.
I think one of the things that kind of charted my course was I was always around adults primarily. Now we did live near relatives, so I had cousins and aunts and uncles, you spend most of your time with your family, meaning your parents. And so, I think that being an only child did not only, particularly for my mother, have the, maybe the opportunity, sometimes it didn't feel so opportunistic to have someone who was just looking at you as the in, the child that they're raising and nurturing.
[00:03:52] Karen Marsdale: So sometimes I might've felt a little bit overwhelmed, but when you're an only child, I've read books on birth order etc. And one thing that I learned from that was an only child is like a firstborn times three.
When you're an only child it is like being a firstborn times three. You tend to be alpha; you tend to be a leader.
[00:04:09] Karen Marsdale: So, you tend to be alpha, you tend to be a leader. And I'm not saying these things to say, this is who I am. It's just this is often what happens. My mother was a bit sensitive. And so I was sensitive. I know I got my feelings hurt a lot.
And mother was not exactly grin and bear it. It was oh, you poor thing. So, I think, and that was a lot about her background. And it's just so interesting. And now today, especially, my work at hand as you see how much background in childhood impacts the life and the trajectory of an individual.
I do remember one time I broke my arm, and my father was rough and tumble and praise many was a welder and, oh, you're fine, you'll be fine. And my mother then took me to the hospital. I got it casted up and I almost waited all day for my father to come home, jump in the driveway and say, see, I told you. It’s funny little