Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas Tommy Thomas

[00:00:00] Larry O'Nan: We could have failed miserably, Tommy, but that was okay. I learned a long time ago, and even in the book that I've written, I did a foreword about the freedom to fail. And I was afraid to step out and do things, and I had a guy that I was working with, and he said, Larry, freedom to fail is what you've got.
[00:00:19] Larry O'Nan: No one's ever done it before. Go ahead and step into it. All you can do is go back and do it again. If it doesn't work, then try something else. And freedom to fail never became a barrier to me. If this is not the way to do it, we'll figure it out later and tweak it and do it again.
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[00:00:34] Tommy Thomas: My guest today is Larry O'Nan, and Larry is a graduate of the University of Colorado. He and his wife, Pat, served on the staff of Cru, previously known as Campus Crusade for Christ, for 18 years.
And during this time, Larry dedicated 13 years to developing and overseeing the accelerated growth of many fund development initiatives, resulting in more than 150 million raised for evangelism and development programs worldwide. I first met Larry in July of 1973. I had joined the staff of Campus Crusade and had been assigned to report to Larry.
It's an immense pleasure to get to interview my first boss.
Larry, Welcome to NextGen Nonprofit Leadership.
[00:01:20] Larry O'Nan: Tommy, it's so good to be with you. Thanks a lot for inviting me to dialogue with you a little bit today about all kinds of things. We've got a long history.
[00:01:28] Tommy Thomas: We could go in a lot of directions. We could do a whole podcast on reminiscing about memories, but there was one that stuck in my mind. And I don't know if you remember or not.  It was the summer of ‘74 and Larry and I had traveled to Korea to attend this big conference, Expo 74, with a million and a half of our good friends.
And after the conference, we traveled around Southeast Asia, but the leg of the trip that I remember was with the Philippines. And it was so hot, and it was so humid, I was raised in the south and I thought I knew what heat and humidity was, but they put a whole new definition on it over there.
I remember we shared a bedroom that had two single beds and one oscillating fan. I can remember lying in my bed and that fan would hit me and then it would go away and it'd go over, swing over to Larry's side of the room, and hit him. And it'd go back and forth. And I thought, a lot of significant learning took place on that trip, but the heat and the humidity and that oscillating fan stick out in my memory, Larry.
[00:02:34] Larry O'Nan: Oh, my goodness. And I was in the Philippines about two years ago. I chair a board of a nonprofit in the Philippines called Little Feet and Friends, and I was sharing a room with a Filipino pastor that was with me. And I was laying there thinking at least the last time I was here, it wasn't oscillating. I was actually in the only air-conditioned room on that entire compound.
[00:03:00] Tommy Thomas:  Yeah, they get used to that heat over there. It's amazing. It is amazing. Before we dig too deep into your career and the books you've written and that kind of thing, I want to go back to your maybe to your childhood a little bit. Growing up in Colorado, what are two or three things that you remember most about your childhood?
[00:03:18] Larry O'Nan: My father was a pastor in Western Colorado at the time. And Tommy, the things that stuck with my head the most was learning to do something from nothing. Dad was encouraging. I had a horse that was 36 inches tall, a Grand Canyon pony horse. And I learned to make money with that little rascal.
He about killed me on a race, but I decided that I could take him to the richer part of my town. And for a quarter, I could get a kid to ride on the back of the horse and I could make more money in three hours as a 10- or 12-year-old than I could if I was doing anything else. So, learning to do something from noth

[00:00:00] Carl LaBarbera: I met a guy, Dick Berry, who was a professional in the Policy Governance arena. And once I took his class, I was convinced that this was what I needed to do board work. And the reason for that is because primarily my own work in aerospace industry, knowing that systems and procedures are essential to do any kind of job that's going to be effective.
[00:00:26] Carl LaBarbera: And when Policy Governance was presented that's the kind of system that I was seeing. And so, a complete, scientific system with procedures and thinking about all the elements of governance was something I needed.
[00:00:42] Tommy Thomas:  My guest today is Carl LaBarbera. I met Carl several years ago at his home in Southern California.  He was gracious to give me a couple of hours that afternoon, and we've maintained some loose contact with each other since then.  One of the areas of expertise he has is that of Policy Governance, and I've known that, from the afternoon I met him, so as I was thinking about more guests we could have in the area of board service, Carl was one of the ones I wanted to have, so thank you, Carl, for joining us this afternoon.
[00:01:14] Carl LaBarbera: Thank you, Tommy. It's my pleasure to be here and look forward to our conversation.
[00:01:19] Tommy Thomas: Before we dig too deep into Policy Governance, how did you get interested in or involved in nonprofit board service?
[00:01:29] Carl LaBarbera: That goes back 40 years. So, it's interesting. I don't know how far back you want me to go.
[00:01:37] Carl LaBarbera: I can go back to my childhood because my dad had a company in inner city LA which is a very difficult area.
[00:01:48] Tommy Thomas: Back then, especially,
[00:01:49] Carl LaBarbera:   When I was a very young child, I was 11 years old when the Watts Riots occurred. And my mother and I were driving into the business in South LA.
[00:01:59] Carl LaBarbera: And the Watts Riots were underway. And my mom swears that a black woman flagged off attackers.  She was in front of us, and we were able to drive into the business, but we had no idea. The news was not like it is today.  We literally drove into it. So that obviously left a big impression on me as a kid.
[00:02:22] Carl LaBarbera: And I've had a heart for the inner city ever since. And we continued, actually, my brother and I took over the business that my dad had started and in 1957 after the war and in continued in that Watts area, but then we were bought out by the freeway and moved just slightly south of there in an area in Linwood, which is still South LA
[00:02:48] Carl LaBarbera:  So that connection of having a business in that community and actually knowing the neighbors in that community, in the Watts community, which was primarily African American gave me that heart. And then I was listening to Focus on The Family. I would wake up in the morning, six o'clock in the morning, with Focus on The Family on the radio.
[00:03:09] Carl LaBarbera: And Dr. Dobson was talking with Keith Phillips, who is the founder of World Impact, and talking about Watts. And I thought to myself, wow, that's literally across the street. And so, I made a journey to introduce myself to World Impact. At the time it was a Canadian director who was leading that Watts ministry.
[00:03:33] Carl LaBarbera: And we got to become good friends in our company partnered with World Impact to help the missionaries in the Watts community and help them in any way we can to support them in their ministry.
[00:03:45] Tommy Thomas: Wow. That goes back a long way.
[00:03:49] Carl LaBarbera: We're talking 1990s. Yeah. At the time I met him, it was late eighties or early nineties.
[00:03:55] Tommy Thomas: Did you have any kind of mentorship relative to board service? Did you have a model or a role model?
[00:04:03] Carl LaBarbera: I think, my interest in board work really began with our own company. That was the work that I love to do, having a 30,00

[00:00:00] Bob Lonac: And the authenticity part — I believe everybody wants to run into people that have that freedom.  When you don't have anything to hide — I think that's what authenticity is. It's you are you. And being you, when you start discovering it and relaxing, it is a lot easier than always thinking, what do you think?
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[00:00:29] Tommy Thomas: My guest today is Bob Lonac. For people that have been regular listeners, you will remember Bob was the guest on our first episode, and I was so grateful that Bob would agree to be a guest on a podcast that never had occurred yet.
And so, thank you, Bob. We're 126 episodes in now, so we've got more listeners and I trust I've gotten a little bit better in my interviewing skills.  Bob had a successful career. 30+ years with Young Life. And then he was on the ground level with the International Justice Mission and finished his career with Crista Ministries in the greater Seattle area.
[00:01:09] Tommy Thomas: So, Bob, welcome again to Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership.
[00:01:13] Bob Lonac: Great to be here, Tommy. So, what you're doing, man. Thanks for all you've done for me.
[00:01:19] Tommy Thomas: I read your newsletter this week. Maybe go back and just refresh our listeners. You retired from Crista, and you started consulting and this newsletter is a way for you to share what you're thinking about.
[00:01:36] Bob Lonac: Yeah, newsletters may be an old word right now in today's world, but I always read newsletters on different things, finance whatever. And I thought, I am the kind of guy that's always thinking about stuff. And I think one of the things I do that over time people have told me is like put ideas into a way to communicate and help people grow, including myself.
Because I'm always thinking about how can I be better and what can I do? So, I just threw out the idea of hey, you want to sign up? So, if you do want to sign up for what I do have, I've got several hundred subscribers. It's free. So you just go to boblonac.com and you can sign up there.
[00:02:20] Tommy Thomas: I read the one this week and it had to do with giftedness and stewardship of your gifts, giftedness and honoring God with the way he created us and somehow that just that resonated with me, so I immediately got on the phone and called Bob and I said, let's do a podcast.  Let's discuss this.
Bob, I remember back from our first conversation. You know, you mentioned, probably midway in your career with Young Life, or maybe late there, that you read the book, What Color is Your Parachute? by Dick Bowles. And was that your first introduction into giftedness or that kind of things?
[00:02:55] Bob Lonac:  Probably, I think in most ministries and a lot of businesses there are like tests you take. Who is this person?
And what should you really do? And the parachute one was one of the first that I did read. And a guy gave it to me that was helping me through a transition.
[00:03:18] Bob Lonac: And I just got interested in that good question. Who am I? And it's really, I think a central question to those of us who want to be followers of Christ and, Jesus said, I've come, you might have life more abundantly and what does that mean? What is abundance? Does that mean getting rich?  I don't think so, but what is it and how do you understand it and how can you have more of it?
[00:03:49] Tommy Thomas: Years ago, probably 10-12 years ago now, Max Lucado, the pastor down in San Antonio was going through a, maybe struggle. That's probably not too strong of a word on figuring out what his best giftedness was.
He was trying to be a pastor of a mega church, but his passion was really writing and speaking. And so, he came to our organization, and we took him through the assessment SIMAÓ and he reorganized his whole church staff. He got an Executive Pastor to run the thing and freed him up to do what he does best, and that's to speak and to write. So, I think there is an element of

[00:00:00] Alberto Huerta: If I were to get a do over in life, I would have more consistently put family above my professional life. I would say a disproportionate commitment to my professional growth ended up not being the best choice when it came to prioritizing family.
I think on a day-to-day basis, we can also suffer from long days or lots of travel and my do over would really center around being able to still strive for excellence, strive for impact, but to more consistently be able to do that both in my marriage and with my kids and in my community, as well as professionally.
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[00:00:42] Alberto Huerta: Our guest today is Alberto Huerta. Alberto has brought his expertise in brand strategy and management, marketing and fundraising strategy, product development and innovation, and donor insights and analytics to such organizations as Visa, Kraft, Procter Gamble, Compassion International, and World Vision.
[00:01:03] Tommy Thomas: He's skilled in turnaround, startups, and global enterprise operations. Alberto, welcome to NextGen Nonprofit Leadership.
[00:01:11] Alberto Huerta: Thank you so much, Tommy. It's a pleasure to be with you today.
[00:01:14] Tommy Thomas: Before we go too deep into your professional experience, I always like to explore someone's childhood.  So take me back to your childhood.  What do you remember as being formative?
[00:01:28] Alberto Huerta: Certainly, the people in my life. Tommy, I had a mom who was always there for me. Unconditional love for sure. My dad modeled honesty and hard work and respect for others. An amazing brother who modeled kindness and generosity.
And I have to highlight my grandma who modeled Jesus for me. And it took me a while, but she certainly planted some seeds that sprouted later in my faith walk. Besides just the great people in my life, English was always a part of my life growing up in Mexico. My mom loved the U.S. She traveled to the U.S. when she was really young.
[00:02:04] Alberto Huerta: And instilled that in our family. I developed a taste for other cultures and languages living outside of the U.S. and in Europe and then back to Mexico where I chose to study industrial engineering. I never really practiced it, but it ended up being a really great school and a really great skill set for what I ended up doing.
[00:02:26] Tommy Thomas: What was high school like in Mexico?
[00:02:29] Alberto Huerta: High school in Mexico … I was in Colorado Springs for a couple of years with my uncles. They were kind enough to receive me and my brother for 9th and 10th grade.
So when I got back to Mexico, it'd been about seven years. I'd been away in Europe with my mom. And then, as I said, with my uncles in Colorado, and so getting back to Mexico to finish high school was, a really different experience. It was almost a reverse cultural shock getting back and getting acquainted with Mexico again.
I had the fortune of being in an upper middle class family where I had access to really great schooling, which led to the opportunity to go to the Monterey Institute of Technology to be able to study there. So really grateful for the opportunities my parents opened.
[00:03:17] Tommy Thomas: What's something that people are always surprised to know about you?
[00:03:24] Alberto Huerta: Oh boy!  That I have only spent 15 years of my life in Mexico. I'm 52 this year which means that I've been around a lot of places, both in Europe and Canada, where my two daughters were born and then a variety of different places in the U.S. where different opportunities both with P&G and Kraft and Visa.
So, I would say the amount of exposure to different cultures and different cities. I just love languages. I love different cultures. I've really gravitated to global roles over the years because I really appreciate and enjoy the company of people from other countries and the friendships that I've been able to develop.  So that's a big part of what has shaped me. And I credi

[00:00:00] Stewart Severino: The leader that sits at the helm is going to have to be really intentional about how they look for that specific talent and they need to structure their departments or their organizations in that manner, in order to really stretch those dollars.
[00:00:13] Stewart Severino: You have to be a strong financial steward nowadays. There's no reason not to be right with the talent that we have out there, so my suggestion to leadership is to stop building empires and start building communities.
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[00:00:25] Tommy Thomas: Our guest today is Stewart Severino, the Head of Innovation for The Navigators.
[00:00:34] Tommy Thomas: As of recent, one of the podcasts I've added to my feed is Purpose and Profit Podcast hosted by Dave Raley and Carly Berner. Stewart was a recent guest of theirs and listening to that podcast convinced me that I wanted Stewart to share with our audience. So I want to give a big shout out to Dave and Carly for the work they're doing with Purpose and Profit Podcast.
[00:00:55] Tommy Thomas: So, Stewart, welcome to NextGen Nonprofit Leadership.
[00:00:58] Stewart Severino: Hey Tommy, nice to be here. Thank you.
[00:01:00] Tommy Thomas: So, I have to confess that earlier in my career, maybe 20 years ago, 30 years ago, if you'd asked me about innovation and The Navigators, I'm not sure I would have put those two in the same sentence. But after knowing and working with Doug Nuenke, their most recent former President, it makes total sense now that The Navigators would have somebody at a senior level paying attention to innovation.
[00:01:26] Stewart Severino: That caught my attention too. That was not more than 18 months ago. So, we're in the same boat.
[00:01:32] Tommy Thomas:  We're going to talk a lot about innovation in the nonprofit sector and maybe if it's appropriate, maybe you can share with us some of the exciting things that The Navigators are doing in this area.
But before we go there, I want to go back to your childhood and your upbringing, and maybe learn a little bit about, maybe how that got you to where you are today.
[00:01:53] Stewart Severino: Yeah, you know, that's an immigrant story. My mom came to the US in the early 70s and she worked in a factory and raised us kids alone. You don't know any different right, you grew up with friends who were in similar situations inner city in New Jersey, I grew up in Newark.
You know, high school was a good time. There was decent formation there because of, you know, some male coaches. That's always important. Even though you don't have a male figure at home, hopefully, you have some male influences in your life. So that helped to shape me early on as a male.
And then, moving out of high school, college began in 1994. I went to a Jesuit university, for a little bit, but dropped out because of the dot com boom in New York City. So that was probably the best decision I made at that time. You know, kids are talking about that today, right? Oh, do we really need college?
[00:02:46] Stewart Severino: We can just get a certification. And that's kind of what was going on back then. We had to make it up as we went along because we were building it as we were building strategies. So it was an exciting time. And then, I would return later on to academia and complete my degree, my master's at Dallas Theological Seminary.
[00:03:04] Tommy Thomas: What was high school like? Did you play athletics or, in the band or any of that, anything like that?
[00:03:10] Stewart Severino: Yeah. Wrestled, loved wrestling. The discipline of wrestling, the grit, that kind of physical and perseverance set the pace for what would be my adulthood.
[00:03:25] Tommy Thomas: When you started college in the beginning, were you on a technology track or you in general studies? What was that like studying at the Jesuit university?
[00:03:33] Stewart Severino: Yeah, that's a good question. I went in as a biology major. I always enjoyed

[00:00:03] Trina Fullard: I never intended to go to college to play basketball. It was not a plan for me. Academics was my focus. The day that the coach from college came to watch me play, I didn't even know she was there because he never told me until the game was over.
And he said, I want you to meet someone, and that's when he introduced me to Vicki Staten, who was my college coach. And I just asked him, I said, why didn't you tell me that somebody was going to be here watching me play, he said, because I didn't want you to be worried about what's around the corner, I wanted you to stay in the moment.
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[00:00:41] Tommy Thomas: Our guests tonight are Trina and Kevin Fullard. Kevin took his B.A. in Psychology from Washington Jefferson College. He took his Master's of Science in Rehabilitation Counseling from West Virginia University.
[00:00:56] Tommy Thomas: He's the founder and principal at Unique Consulting and Professional Services, and we'll get him to tell us a little bit about that as we get in. Trina also took her B.A. in psychology from Washington and Jefferson. She took her Master's of Arts in Rehabilitation Counseling from the University of Maryland.
[00:01:14] Tommy Thomas: Trina is the CEO, and President-elect at Charlotte Rescue Mission, but on June the 1st, they're going to remove the elect piece of that title, and she will become the President and CEO of Charlotte Rescue Mission. In full disclosure, I must say that I met Trina, our firm, JobFitMatters Executive Search, did the CEO search there.
[00:01:39] Tommy Thomas: And as a part of our process we like to interview as many board members and staff members as we can to learn about the organization. And Trina was in my group of people to interview. As we got into the conversation, I just felt like I was talking to somebody that I had known forever and I just could see leadership written all over this lady.
[00:02:00] Tommy Thomas: During the conversation, she shared a little bit about her basketball career and that her husband also played football. And I thought, now this would be a good podcast to get the two of y'all on together. So Trina and Kevin, welcome to NextGen Nonprofit Leadership.
[00:02:16] Trina Fullard: Thank you. Thank you, Tommy.
[00:02:19] Tommy Thomas: We've had a little sub-theme going here about the coaches in my life. We're going to talk a little bit about life and leadership lessons that people who've done well and intercollegiate athletics have learned from the coaches in their life. And this could go back to the coaches in grammar school on through college.
[00:02:36] Tommy Thomas: If you haven't heard one of these kind of conversations before, that's our format. Before I dive too deep into that, maybe each of you tell me a little bit about your childhood and somewhere along the way, tell me how you met each other.
[00:02:55] Trina Fullard: Okay. I'll start. I grew up in a small town in Pennsylvania in the suburbs of Pittsburgh and, essentially learned as a young child how to be a strong independent young woman. I'm the oldest of two siblings. I have a younger sister who I grew up in the home with, and so I was always a caretaker and looking out for her.
[00:03:17] Trina Fullard: I had a really strong will to be the best at everything wanted to be. A straight-A student, wanted to excel in whatever I was doing and continued that along the way, all the way up through high school, and then my first experience, probably where I had a coach was probably cheerleading in Little League Mighty Might says, you would mighty might football players needed the little cheerleaders.
Being a mighty mite cheerleader was my first experience at being part of a team and having to work with other folks for us to be good at something.
[00:03:46] Trina Fullard: To root them on, but that was my first experience at being a part of a team and having to work with other folks for us to be good at something. So I'll let Kev talk a little bit about