Noreen Simplicio Speaks

In this episode, we talk to the traditional Zuni potter Noreen Simplicio. A strong advocate for youth empowerment, Noreen discusses the Zuni connection to Grand Canyon, her story of learning traditional pottery, and the value of respecting the landscape.

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TRANSCRIPT:

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Noreen Simplicio: It's all going to get taken away. Well, that hasn't happened. I'm still creating. So, Grandma, I'm sorry, but I think you were wrong at that.

Ranger Jonah: Hello, and welcome to Grand Canyon Speaks. My name is Ranger Jonah.

Ranger Melissa: And I'm Ranger Melissa.

Ranger Jonah: So, Melissa, could you tell us a little bit about this episode?

Ranger Melissa: Yeah. Our coworker Kelly interviewed Noreen Simplicio, who's a Zuni potter, on a very, very windy evening. What's great about Noreen's time with us here at the Canyon was seeing her love of sharing her pottery process with others, and especially the youth.

Ranger Jonah: Yeah. You know what, I would have never realized the role of manure in pottery without this interview.

Ranger Melissa: Yeah. Hopefully everyone will also learn that and enjoy this recording. So, without further ado, Noreen.

Noreen Simplicio: First of all, before I introduce myself, I wanted to thank the National Park Service, Kelli and Dan, for continuing the demonstration program, because the last time I was here was back in April of 2016. So that was the last time I was here. But so happy to be back here. And I'll talk more about that, but yes. My name is Noreen Simplicio. I'm from Zuni Pueblo. I've been a potter for about 40 years. And this place is very special to us, our tribe, and along with the other eleven affiliated tribes. Zuni history tells us that there's a place here, north from here, called Ribbon Falls. The way you say it in Zuni is Chimik'yana'kya Deya' is a place of emergence. Yeah. Very beautiful place. And that's why this place is very special to us, because this is the place where our ancestors emerged from the fourth underworld. So, I myself never really knew where we came from or why we settled in Zuni. But once we came out from this area, our people, well, there was a purpose for us coming out from the fourth underworld. Our purpose was Father Sun wanted somebody to be doing the offerings, a prayer stick, food, and just prayers, the offerings to give the people blessings.

Noreen Simplicio: So that's why we came out from the Earth. And once our people came out from the Earth, they went looking for the Zuni, which is now called the Middle Place. So, they made their journey towards the Zuni area. And of course, that story is pretty true, because along the area, coming here or going that way to Zuni, there's places of settlement that our people settled in. So the way they found the Middle Place was they used a water strider. The water strider spread out its legs, and it touched all the oceans in the world. And once it stood there like this, the middle of his heart is where the Middle place is. Now in Zuni. So, when I was growing up, I would ask Grandma, like, why are we here? Why did we settle here? And that's the story behind it. And I didn't know this until sometime between maybe 2017, when I was asked to work at a substance abuse program. I worked at a recovery program to teach the recoveries. I guess through my clay and through the work that I do it was therapy for the recovering people. So, once we worked with them about teaching about the Zuni culture, language, prayers, whatever, anything and everything about Zuni. We taught for, like, six weeks. Then we did a journey to Ribbon Falls, actually hiking down Bright Angel Trail and North Kaibab Trail. Like actually walking to this Ribbon Falls place. So, I had an opportunity to do it twice, and I'm glad I did. And I survived. Yes.

Ranger Kelli: Do you want to tell everybody where Zuni is and how far it is from here?

Noreen Simplicio: Okay, if any of you know where Gallup, New Mexico is, anybody know where Gallup, New Mexico is? Okay. We're like, what southwest? Like 40 miles southwest of there. So, we live on a reservation. I don't quite know how big our reservation is. Maybe 10,000, maybe more. But that's where I'm from, and that's where actually I learned my craft. I wish I could say a grandma taught me or a grandpa taught my work, what I do now. But I've been a potter for 40 years, and I learned at the high school, but I didn't learn from a Zuni person. I learned from another pueblo, an Acoma person, that was my instructor. So, I took the classes in high school, and from there I just kind of developed and perfected my techniques as I went through my years. But I consider myself a traditional contemporary potter. I use traditional techniques. Contemporary techniques. It wasn't until this past July there was another Hopi person, Bobby Silas, that was teaching a traditional class at our college in Zuni. So, I said, well, I need to take this class, because what he was going to teach was the old techniques.

Noreen Simplicio: So, I took the class, and when I first showed up in the classroom, everybody was like, what are you doing here? You're already a master. And then I said, well, I need to learn. It's always good to learn other people's way of teaching and learning different techniques. So, one of the requirements...I mastered everything. I mastered the building; I mastered the designing. The hardest thing for me was using yucca, the plant. Because that's what our ancestors used a long time ago. They use yucca brushes to paint their pots. That's why I brought this pot with me, because this is my first pot that has been done the old, old, styled way. So, I struggled a lot using the yucca, but I managed to master it.

Ranger Kelli: How long did it take you to do that?

Noreen Simplicio: It took a while because it took me a long time to actually get the feel, the feel of the yucca, because for like 35, 40 years, I've always been using paintbrushes, never yucca, because I could never do it when I was younger. So, it was my destiny. It was my like; I need to perfect this. So, I did. That's why I brought this pot with me.

Ranger Kelli: That's beautiful. And I know there are so many people who are coming today to your table, and they wanted to know what different of your pieces represent, especially the frogs. Oh, my gosh. The kids love your work. And were drawn to your frog pottery.

Noreen Simplicio: Yeah. And I brought one with me. After the session is over, you can come take a look. But everything, all the pigments that I use, I go up in the mountains and dig my own clays. Well, I actually don't do the digging. I have my boyfriend, and I bring a lot of men with me because the place where I dig the clays is pretty rugged. You have to go down in the bottom of the mountain there and dig it and then hike it back up. So, it's a workout. So, they help me collect my clays, but they're natural pigments. One of the things that was taught to me by my instructor was always respect the Earth, because the clay is very valuable. And before I actually start digging, there's always prayer involved. There's always offerings of cornmeal and food before you actually start digging. And you're digging when the clay comes out, plentiful because you literally have to dig to get to the clay. So, it's coming out plentiful and then after a while, it kind of stops coming out. That kind of tells you that's all you can have for now.

Noreen Simplicio: When I teach, like youth or children, whatever, I try to instill this in them, that the clay is very valuable, and if you treat it right and if you create from your heart; [Zuni phrase] I would say in Zuni. If you create from your heart, you'll develop or create beautiful things. So that's one of the important things that I like to talk about, especially to the young people, that when I teach, we have to respect the Earth, the clays and each other. This is what I share with the youth because I think it's important.

Ranger Kelli: When you get the clay, do you pick it out during different seasons, or do you just do it whenever?

Noreen Simplicio: Well, I can say: don't go digging clay when the snakes are out.

Noreen Simplicio: So usually in the summertime, we don't really do it. I wanted to go up there before it got really hot and before the snakes came out. So, I would probably have to go make a trip maybe sometime late August, September, when the snakes go back in because it's very rocky and they live in those rock areas. I am kind of scared of snakes.

Ranger Kelli: I second that. And I'm a park ranger out here. Definitely, because I know it was really great to hear about some of the- do you want to tell us about the frogs? Noreen Simplicio: Yeah, the frogs. The frogs. Like, I was telling Kelli the other day that I don't really know where some of my ideas come from. It just happens. Like, when I'm creating something, I don't have a plan. I don't have anything sketched out. It just happens. And I think that's the gifts that I have. I remember when I was a young girl, about maybe five or six, I remember always playing with mud. I used to make, like, little mud pots all the time. So, when I went to high school and I found out there was a class, pottery class, of course I took it, and I stayed in it all throughout my high school years, and I perfected it, and I was just a natural at it. And then after I graduated, I met up with another Acoma woman that was a potter, and she taught me marketing, and she said, you need to do this. So, I did, and I've been making pots ever since. And the frog pots, like I said, I don't know where I got my idea for the frog pots, but I do them in many different ways. If you're Zuni, you belong to some sort of clan. I'm not a frog, but I love doing frogs, so I'm a