PCC Local Time Nancy Joan Hess

In times of crisis, we often see leaders emerge from the frontline. My guest today, Professor Paresh Wankhade has published extensive research on emergency services and offers us examples of how emergent leadership shows up in times of crisis.
In this episode we talk about how the leadership framework is changing within emergency services. Some of the topics we cover include pressure on ambulance crews to meet performance targets, and how this impacts their ability to provide care, cultural challenges inside fire services, and lessons on leadership from crisis situations.
This episode is part of the Across the Pond Series that we began in 2023 with Professor John Diamond. We have so much to learn with our colleagues across the pond and they in turn have an interest in learning with us.
GUEST BIOParesh Wankhade FAcSS, FRSA, FCMI is a Professor of Leadership and Management at Edge Hill University Business School, UK. He is the Editor-In-Chief of International Journal of Emergency Services. His research and publications focus on analyses of strategic leadership, organisational culture, organisational change and interoperability within the public services with a focus on emergency services. Paresh has published in major journals including Work, Employment and Society, International Journal of Management Reviews, Public Management Review, Regional Studies, Public Money and Management and International Journal of Public Sector Management along with several monographs on the leadership and governance aspects in the emergency services.
MOST RECENT BOOK: Emergency Services Management: A Research Overview
Profile with List of Research
LinkedIn Profile
SHOW NOTES[05:00] Emergent Leadership in Crisis Situations
Paresh explains how leadership can emerge from unexpected situations, using examples like the Chilean miners and the Thai cave rescue. He emphasizes the importance of team-based leadership and bottom-up approaches in emergency services.
[10:00] Performance Targets in Ambulance Services
Paresh critiques the performance management approach in ambulance services, particularly the focus on response time targets. He argues that this approach pressures ambulance crews and impacts the quality of patient care, as the eight-minute response target often prioritizes speed over effective medical intervention.
[15:00] Cultural Challenges in Fire Services
Paresh highlights the cultural issues within fire services, particularly the lack of diversity and gender balance. He mentions recent reviews highlighting problems related to the treatment of women and ethnic minorities in the fire services and the need for cultural change to address these issues.
[20:00] Professionalization and Its Impact
Paresh talks about the professionalization of emergency services and how it affects motivation and job satisfaction. He discusses the clash between efficiency-focused management models and the mission-driven nature of emergency services work.
[25:00] Crisis Leadership and Shared Leadership
Paresh discusses the need for a shift in leadership models from heroic, top-down approaches to more collaborative, team-based structures. He provides examples of effective shared leadership during crises, such as the Chilean miners' ordeal.
[30:00] Lessons from Grenfell Tower Fire
Paresh...

Jerry Ozog, Executive Director, Pennsylvania Fire & Emergency Services Institute, is here today to talk about challenges in the leadership of emergency services. We cover topics such as everyday leadership vs crisis leadership, community expectations, funding and transparency, organizational models, recruitment, including diversity and inclusion, and the particular challenge small communities face.
This episode is part of our APMM series. APMM is dedicated to the promotion of professional and effective local government management of Pennsylvania.
SHOW NOTESJerry Ozog Bio on LinkedInPennsylvania Fire & Emergency Services Institute
Follow APMM on LinkedInMORE INFORMATION ABOUT APMM
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TIMESTAMPS[00:00] Facilitator Leadership
[03:53] Effective Relationships Seminar
[09:03] Building Trust and Transparency
[13:12] Different Cultures in Emergency Services
[15:56] Collaborative Leadership and Flexibility
[21:41] Preserving Collaborative Cultures
[25:54] Community-Based Strategic Planning
[31:42] Inclusion and Diversity
[40:54] Solutions Through Collaboration
QUOTES FROM SHOWOn Collaborative Leadership:
"In these environments, the day-to-day leadership in today's environment you need more of a facilitator that can bring people to the table and be able to... accept ideas from other people. I want to work with other people."
Balancing Command and Control with Collaboration:
"Sometimes that leader gets into a position. They are a command and control folk. And there's a lot of problems within the organization where the employees or the volunteers feel that I never get a voice. I never get to say anything."
Building Trust Through Collaboration:
"I tell municipal officials you don't go immediately and demand records from the fire company. You gotta approach it where let's sit down and have coffee together. Let's talk. Let's identify the fire company leadership. Let's develop that relationship to start to build a little bit of trust and ease our way into helping the fire company and the municipality learn about each other."
Importance of Frontline Input in Strategic Planning:
"There's something that is called a community-based strategic plan for fire and EMS where a stakeholder group of citizens are brought together... and you use that session as an initial SWOT analysis for defining what their expectations are."
Collaborative Decision-Making in Volunteer Organizations:
"When you assess and let's say you're working to get a fire tax implemented and doing those things, you definitely want to focus on keeping a few of the traditional events... there has to be a connection and feedback where I see places that are challenged or they're internally making their own decisions based on no feedback."

Today we have a special episode of PCC local time. This week the APMM conference for local government managers took place in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Our conference took place in the ruins of the former Bethlehem Steel.
Overlooking the historic Steel Stacks, the largest revitalized brownfield in the country, it has become a top destination for arts and culture.
What better place then this to host the APMM 2024? Now, come with me for a break from sessions to enjoy voices that echo the theme of the conference, refresh, renew, and reimagine.
Oh, and by the way, are you coachable?
APMM is a premier association for professional municipal management in Pennsylvania. If you would like more information, check out the link below.
Guests include:
John Ernst, Manager, Lansdale BoroughPaul Leonard, Retired manager, former manager of Upper DublinCrandall Jones, Manager, Upper Darby Township, APMM 2024 Conference ChairDr. Craig Wheeland, Senior Vice Provost for Academics, Villa Nova UniversityKen Myers, Administrator, Quincy TownshipCarolyn McCreary, Manager, Montgomery TownshipGreg Primm, City Manager, City of Lower BurrellDan Santoro, Manager, Cranberry TownshipMatthew R. Serakowski, Manager Upper St. ClairKyle Beidler, Assistant Manager, Cranberry TownshipNate Kline, Sr. Acct Executive, Infradaft LLCDavid Pribulka, Manager, Susquehanna Township, Incoming PresidentSara Gibson, Manager, Camp Hill Borough, Incoming Conference ChairTom Vernau, Manager, Lower Allen TownshipPodcast Cover Photo taken by Nicole Whitaker, Manager, Township of Darby
MORE INFORMATION ABOUT APMMSign up for the PCC Local Time Newsletter HERE

My guest today is Hugo Marynissen. He is an expert in Crisis Governance and Risk Management Co-holding the Chair of Crisis Governance at University of Antwerp.
Our conversation today will address the question of how leaders might structure organizations to better adapt to an uncertain world. He identifies key myths and assumptions that are part of traditional models that simply, do not work in times of crisis.      
He is senior partner at PM•Risk Crisis Change and senior researcher at the University of Antwerp in the Business & Economics, Management department and professor at Antwerp Management School. The focus of his current research is on crisis networks, organizational resilience, normal chaos, and the role of crisis governance as a way to anticipate extreme events.
LINKSBio at PM Risk Crisis Change
LinkedIn
Research Links
Network of Networks: Preliminary Lessons from the Antwerp Port Authority on Crisis Management and Network Governance to Deal with the COVID-19 Pandemic
Network of Networks: Preliminary Lessons from the Antwerp Port Authority on Crisis Management and Network Governance to Deal with the COVID-19 Pandemic
Mentioned in Episode:
Normal Accidents: Living with High Risk Technologies by Charles Perrow
Video Intro to Episode
TIMESTAMPS03:00 - Definition of crisis governance and the inherent conflict between crisis and governance.
06:00 - Introduction of the concept of normal chaos and the human factor in crisis creation.
09:00 - Hugo's personal background and journey into academia and crisis management.
12:00 - Working with the fire service and the importance of science and academia in crisis management.
15:00 - Cultural shifts within fire services and the need for multiple good leaders rather than a single strong leader.
18:00 - Collaboration among different emergency services and the impact of hierarchical structures. Examples from the Port of Antwerp and crisis management practices during the COVID-19 lockdown.
27:00 - The concept of resilience in crisis management. Differentiating between bouncing back and bouncing forward after a crisis.
30:00 - The role of leadership in fostering resilience within organizations.
33:00 - Effective coordination and integration of autonomous networks in crisis management.
36:00 - Examples from the Houston Port and the Channel Industries Mutual Aid (CIMA).
39:00 - Real-world implications of network collaboration and trust-building.
42:00 - The role of governance in crisis management and decision-making processes.
- Balancing formal structures with implicit interactions and stakeholder influence.
45:00 - The necessity of political courage and long-term vision in governance.
- Peter Drucker's quote on turbulence and the need to adapt our thinking.
“The greatest danger in times of turbulence is not the turbulence; it is to act with yesterday's logic.”
51:00 - The tendency to repeat mistakes and the lack of...

A disaster happens where hazards meet human systems.
My guest today shared that quote and much more about what local governments can do to lay the groundwork for a smooth recovery process should the worst-case scenario occur.
We go deep on what can be done before a disaster strikes. We talk about how to expedite the funding process and the unintended consequences when communities do not make the necessary investments before disaster strikes.
Dustin Hinkel works as a consultant at Guidehouse to help state and local governments, schools, nonprofits, find, acquire, spend, and retain grant funding to help them implement their most complex and critical public service projects.
Dustin has an academic background in environmental policy and natural and technological hazards. He began his career in county emergency management but eventually rose to the role of County Executive in Taylor County, Florida before moving into a consultant role with Guidehouse.
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LINKS TO DUSTINConnect with Dustin Hinkel on LinkedIN
More information on Guidehouse.com (State and Local Governments)
TIME STAMPS[00:03:00] Dustin's background in government and his education in emergency management. Transition from theoretical knowledge to practical application in emergency management.
[00:06:00] The realization of the importance of funding and fiscal stewardship in disaster management. Challenges in managing budgets during disasters.
[00:09:00] Support from mentors and networks in understanding public sector finance and budgeting. The role of regional associations in Florida's emergency management program.
[00:12:00] The impact of insurance rates on government investment in infrastructure.
Case study: The National Flood Insurance Program and its effects during the Great Recession.
[00:15:00] Steps to expedite funding in the event of a disaster.
Importance of pre-existing relationships and mutual aid agreements.
[00:18:00] The role of industry partners in disaster response and recovery.
Example: Utilizing local resources such as tree haulers and timber professionals.
[00:21:00] Typical questions from governments after a disaster regarding reimbursement.
Categories of expenses eligible for FEMA reimbursement and the importance of documentation.
[00:24:00] Political and administrative challenges in securing disaster declarations and assistance.
Example: Taylor County's experience during Hurricane Hermine.
[00:27:00] The importance of persistence and understanding FEMA processes.
The iterative nature of the public assistance process and interactions with FEMA officials.
[00:30:00] The complexities of local vendor preferences in federal procurement processes.
Balancing community involvement with federal standards for fair and competitive pricing.
[00:33:00] The importance of documenting baseline conditions for projects like beach renourishment and road reconstruction. Ensuring transparency and accountability in federal funding.
[00:36:00] Discussion on the Francis Scott Key Bridge and the role of federal government in local disasters. The importance of local and industry input in rebuilding infrastructure.
[00:39:00] The hypothetical scenario of FEMA funding as a loan rather than a grant.
The potential impact on community investment and infrastructure...

Welcome to PCC Local Time. This week we have a special episode – the first in a series of episodes created in partnership with APMM, the Association of Professional Municipal Managers. We are talking with the current and upcoming Presidents, Amanda Serock and Dave Pribulka about the topics that are challenging local government today and the municipal manager who is behind the scenes making it all happen.
Follow this podcast and sign up for the newsletter to follow this series and related episodes. But more importantly, check out the APMM conference and ICMA conference this fall. If you have been sitting on the fence, well, we are waiting for you.
SHOW NOTESLearn more about APMM and sign up to be a volunteer at the ICMA Conference
Amanda Serock (LinkedIn)
Amanda has been working professionally in municipal management for 20 years. She is currently serving as the Township Manager in Concord Township, Delaware County, PA where she was appointed in October of 2017. Prior to that she served as Township Manager and Sewer Authority Manager at Chadd's Ford Township.
She received her Master’s Degree in Public Administration from Villanova University and her Bachelor’s Degree from LaSalle University.
David Pribulka (LinkedIn)
David is currently serving as the Township Manager in Susquehanna Township, Dauphin County, PA. since March 2022. Prior to that appointment he served as manager of Ferguson Township for 9.5 years and as Assistant Township Manager at Ferguson prior to that.
He received her Master's Degree in Public Administration from Kutztown University of Pennsylvania and his Bachelor's Degree from Moravian University.
TIME STAMPS:
[00:01:17] Leadership in Local Government.
[00:04:15] Municipal managers sharing technology.
[00:10:16] Generational dynamics in the workplace.
[00:10:48] Changing dynamics in local governments.
[00:16:01] Public safety and crisis.
[00:20:47] Sustainability challenges for managers.
[00:22:11] Professional management and development.
[00:26:02] Finding the Managerial Path.
[00:30:35] Seeking confidence and inclusion.
[00:34:16] Welcoming community in municipal government.
[00:37:43] APMM conference planning excitement.
[00:39:13] Becoming coachable.
[00:42:45] Passing the torch of leadership.