Science of Reading: The Podcast Amplify Education

On this wide ranging episode, Susan finally gets the chance to speak with famed education thinker and author John Hattie, Ph.D. Hattie has authored dozens and dozens of books. He’s best known for his book, Visible Learning, which now has a sequel. In this episode, he discusses his career and shares with Susan some of the biggest takeaways from his work. He also explains what meta-analysis is and discusses some of the biggest takeaways from meta-analysis in the education field. They both also delve into the importance of successful implementation. And, finally, Hattie shares his thoughts on AI and the future of education. This episode offers many practical tips for educators to realign with their mission and dig into why they do what they do and how to best make an impact.

Show notes: 
Book: Visible Learning: The Sequel by John Hattie Book: Visible Learning and the Science of How We Learn by John Hattie and Gregory C.R. YatesBook: Making Room for Impact by Arran Hamilton, John Hattie, and Dyland WilliamRead: The Future of AI in Education: 13 Things We Can Do to Minimize the DamageQuotes:

“Your job is not to get through the curriculum, your job is not to get kids engaged in authentic, real-world, exciting tasks. Your job is to have an impact across those many notions.” —John Hattie, Ph.D.
“We're very good at finding problems and fixing them but we're not as good—we're not having the courage—to study expertise and scale it up. And that's my mission. Scale up the expertise we have.” —John Hattie, Ph.D.


“I'm an evidence-based person. Sometimes I don't like the results, but that doesn't mean you get to deny it. Some people want to deny it. Some people want to get angry with it. And sometimes evidence does get in the way of a good opinion.” —John Hattie, Ph.D.

In this episode, Susan Lambert talks to Gina Cervetti, Ph.D., about literacy development, knowledge building, vocabulary expansion—and the deep connections between all three. Gina explains why she sees knowledge and vocabulary as two sides of the same coin. She also attempts to expand the listener's understanding of what knowledge really is; it’s not just subject-area knowledge, it’s also cultural knowledge. In this process, she introduces the idea of conceptual coherence, the benefits of this approach to knowledge building, and  avenues for implementing it in the classroom. Lastly, Gina offers strategies for how teachers can effectively build students’ vocabulary without relying on a vocabulary list which she notes is not backed by the research.

Show notes:
Faculty Page: Gina N. CervettiWebsite: Seeds of Science/Roots of ReadingRead: “Research-Based Principles for Improving the Reading Achievement of America’s Children” by the Center for the Improvement of Early Reading AchievementQuotes:

“Above all other things in education, literacy is a gateway to so many of the things that are essential for human flourishing and human choice.” —Dr. Gina Cervetti
“I like to think about vocabulary, not as individual words, right, but as a set of labels for ideas that we want kids to be able to read about and talk about and write about.” —Dr. Gina Cervetti

“It's really hard to teach individual words in ways where that learning is durable…Because it's not connected to something.” —Dr. Gina Cervetti

“When you can see yourself or connect to the experiences you bring to a text it’s great for your comprehension.” —Dr. Gina Cervetti

“Knowledge is so complex that it actually offers a number of different benefits. And different kinds of knowledge actually benefit literacy development in different ways.” —Dr. Gina Cervetti

Many educators understand the value of reading aloud to students, but may not have yet unlocked the full power of these tools as an intentional, consistent, and joyful instructional approach. In this episode, we welcome Molly Ness, author or the recent book, Read Alouds for All Learners: A Comprehensive Plan for Every Subject, Every Day, Grades PreK—8. Molly—a former classroom teacher herself, who also spent 16 years as a teacher educator—gives us an overview of the research on read-alouds, detailing the myriad benefits (linguistic, socioemotional, motivational, and physiological) they provide students. Molly also lays out strategies for effective read-alouds, instructions on how to properly plan and implement them, and specific examples of the pre-work process for texts like Knuffle Bunny by Mo Willems.

Show notes:
Book: “Read Alouds for All Learners: A Comprehensive Plan for Every Subject, Every Day, Grades PreK–8” by Molly Ness
*Use promo code “AmplifyPodcast20” from Oct. 24, 2023–Dec. 15, 2023, for a 20% discount on the paperback version. Read: “What are Teachers Reading and Why?: An analysis of elementary read aloud titles and the rationales underlying teachers’ selections” by Kristin Conradi Smith, Craig A. Young, and Jane Core YatzeckWebsite: www.drmollyness.comX account: @drmollyness*Terms and conditions:
Discount valid on SolutionTree.com only. Enter promo code AmplifyPodcast20 at checkout to receive a 20% discount on the paperback version of Read Alouds for All Learners. Offer expires December 15, 2023. Not valid for bookstores, distributors, or resellers. Continental U.S. only. Cannot be combined with other offers. For customers submitting a purchase order, payment must be received by December 15, 2023, to qualify for this offer.

Quotes:

"A read-aloud is an interactive language experience...where a teacher reads something, elicits a conversation from students. Those conversational turns are so essential in [a] read-aloud. It's a shared literacy experience around a text." —Molly Ness

"What I don't think teachers understand, and I say this having been one of those teachers, is the intentionality that needs to happen in planning the read-aloud." —Molly Ness

"When we add things like think-alouds and being explicit in our vocabulary, we are building [students'] metacognition and [their] abiliy to understand text." —Molly Ness

"We all have those gaps in knowledge and life experiences, regardless of where we come from and regardless of our zip code and regardless of our personal or family situation." —Molly Ness

In the premiere episode of Season 8 of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Susan Lambert is joined by guests Reid Smith and Pamela Snow to lay the groundwork for a season entirely centered on knowledge and knowledge-building. Reid and Pamela—of the SOLAR Lab at La Trobe University in Melbourne, Australia—recently co-authored (along with many others) a review of the literature on background knowledge and literacy. In this discussion, they share what they learned, including some surprising takeaways. This episode examines the  complexity of building background knowledge, the important role it plays in literacy, and the reasons we’ve decided to spend a whole season exploring it!

Show notes:
Read: "The Role of Background Knowledge in Reading Comprehension: A critical review"Read: "Elementary Teachers' Perspectives on Teaching Reading Comprehension"Blog: The Snow Report Website: The SOLAR LabQuotes:
“We decided we'd embark on a knowledge-rich curriculum where we would make deliberate decisions about what it is that we would like our students to know about the world in which we live and thinking carefully about the coherence and sequencing of that knowledge.”  —Reid Smith

“This idea of having a coherent curriculum that systematically builds knowledge and skills over time is something that we think is really important for our kids.” —Reid Smith

“There's a group of students who, even when they know they have the background knowledge that's required to make inferences in a text, they find that really difficult, that they have difficulty identifying the pieces of knowledge that they actually have that are going to enable them to make inferences with a particular text.” —Reid Smith

“Explicit teaching is an important way of building accurate background knowledge, building schema about a topic that, of course, is an important social equity lever for us to pull because not all students have equal opportunities.” —Pamela Snow

“Background knowledge has a particularly strong effect for those students who don't have other compensatory mechanisms to be able to pick up the ball when they don't have that background knowledge.” —Reid Smith

“The long-term memory makes no distinction between information that's correct or incorrect…so, of course, the incorrect knowledge would impact on our understanding." —Reid Smith

“I think we respect teacher autonomy when we give them the knowledge that they need about how the English writing system works, right across the Reading Rope, and how the English language works, right across the Reading Rope.” —Pamela Snow

In this episode, in honor of Dyslexia Awareness Month, we highlight Kareem Weaver's daughter Margaret "Margo" and nephew Elijah—both of whom learned they had dyslexia later in their young lives. After many struggles in school, Margo was diagnosed with dyslexia in high school. Meanwhile, Elijah was diagnosed with dyslexia only while he was incarcerated. Margo and Elijah discuss the impact of their diagnoses. Meanwhile, Kareem reflects on their stories and shares lessons learned for families and caregivers. Margo and Elijah also share their advice for educators and other young people about types of dyslexia.

Show notes:
Listen: Kareem Weaver’s first interview with Susan: What it takes to be a literacy education changemaker.Listen: Kareem Weaver’s most recent podcast appearance: The Right to Read: live from Plain TalkMuch more on dyslexia: Listen to S7E7 with Dr. Tim Odegard and S7E9 with Dr. Sally ShaywitzDocumentary: The Right to Read Website: FULCRUM (Full and Complete Reading is a Universal Mandate) Read: How dyslexia diagnosis changed a Bay Area high school softball player’s lifeQuotes:

"It made me realize I wasn't the problem; something was wrong with me. I just had a little bump in the road that was making it just a little bit harder for me." —Margo Weaver

"It shouldn't take having to go to jail to get what you need to learn how to read. That's the bottom of it." —Kareem Weaver

"Just try to take a deep breath in and ask questions." —Elijah Valencia

"Even when they were trying to help me ... it's like they were expecting me to be learning at everybody else's pace." —Elijah Valencia

"Real talk as a parent: We got to own up to stuff." —Kareem Weaver

"When a kid can't read and life gets a hold of you, it's a life cycle. Next thing you know, you find yourself in situatins that you never would have imagined." —Kareem Weaver

"Most parents are overwhelmed and they need an ally in the building." —Kareem Weaver

"I just wish somebody kind of sat with me and told me that I wasn't stupid and that I was okay." —Margo Weaver

This is Part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Reid Lyon, one of the leading experts in reading research. After years working for and with the highest levels of the U.S. government, Dr. Lyon stepped away from working on reading research. However, in May 2023, he released his "Ten Maxims: What We've Learned So Far About How Children Learn to Read." Picking up where we left off last episode, Dr. Lyon continues to expand on what we know about how children learn—and explains how much of this information was known two decades ago when he was testifying before Congress. He also goes into what he sees in the current Science of Reading landscape, and what he hopes for the future, and how both of those things led to the creation of his "Ten Maxims."

Show notes:
Listen to: Embracing the complexity of learning to read (Part 1)Dr. Reid Lyon: “Ten Maxims: What We've Learned So Far About How Children Learn to Read”Keith Rayner’s research: “Eye movements in reading and information processing: 20 years of research”Marilyn Adams: Beginning to ReadSusan Brady:  Phonological Processes in Literacy Emily Hanford: “Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong”Quotes:
“The Science of Reading is cumulative and we’re learning all kinds of new things.” —Dr. Reid Lyon
“A more realistic look at reading is in fact to understand the complexity, but not be intimidated by it.” —Dr. Reid Lyon

“When you’re working on something that’s so critical to a life—to a child’s life—belief systems don’t cut it. Evidence cuts it.” —Dr. Reid Lyon