Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

Season 2: Episode 5In this episode Sean talks about being buried in client work at Miscreants and how to design trendy clothing that gets people hyped. Meanwhile, Andrew talks about making slow progress on ChartJuice and trying to fight the temptation to become an SEO content goblin.
Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...Cider: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
Transcript:00:02.21
Sean
So where are you up to? You're late.

00:04.34
Andrew
Uh, I was, I'm so behind on writing my newsletter for this month. Um,

00:11.16
Sean
Because you're not using AI to help you anymore.

00:14.65
Andrew
Dick.

00:15.61
Sean
Sorry, sorry.

00:16.52
Andrew
Um, yeah, I just like, honestly I've been busy with, uh, with consulting work for somebody. I think that's, that's what I'm going to blame it on.

00:26.47
Sean
i it is his fault i would blame it on him as well he's made a lot of poor decisions recently we player

00:34.31
Andrew
Yeah, I've been busy with consulting work and then we were like, um we were up north for ah the fourth for a week. um And so there was like a day where I thought about trying to write it there. We had kind of a rainy day and I was like, I'm just going to f**k around on my phone and read a book instead.

00:49.38
Sean
I, it is his fault.

00:53.84
Andrew
um Which was a choice I don't really regret, but now I'm like,

00:55.16
Sean
I would blame it on him as well. He's made a lot of poor decisions recently.

00:59.72
Andrew
uh like two weeks behind getting a newsletter out so trying to trying to get a piece written about how I validated church use and like just how I got to the point where I was willing to make the investment in the initial MVP because when I say validated I don't know if the product is going to work yet we're a ways off from that but

01:07.48
Sean
Cool.

01:24.03
Andrew
validated it enough to have confidence building an MVP.

01:27.50
Sean
Cool.

01:27.60
Andrew
So writing an essay about that and then ah need to put together like the newsletter portion with some links and stuff. But yeah, completely lost track of time. I did the thing I do where I like procrastinated for 30 minutes and then started writing again 30 minutes before our podcast and then looked up and it was like four twelve and we were supposed to start at four o'clock. So

01:50.67
Sean
I do find that like that level of like crunch time is what really snaps me into flow real quick.

01:55.08
Andrew
Oh, absolutely.

01:56.39
Sean
Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad. I'm glad we could do that for you.

02:01.80
Andrew
Honestly, like, that's part of why we wanted to start the podcast again, right?

02:05.41
Sean
For sure.

02:05.71
Andrew
Or at least for me, I i needed, like, I need some social forcing functions to make me do shit.

02:07.01
Sean
Yeah.

02:13.01
Sean
Yeah. Yeah.

02:14.19
Andrew
If I have to give you an update every week, then I have to have an update every week.

02:14.27
Sean
hundred

02:20.36
Sean
Yeah. I mean, like you tweeted out something about us writing and I was like, fuck. And I started writing. I haven't done it last week, but ah since like, since you tweeted about it, but it at least like made me attempt to put words to the paper for a couple of days. So that was pretty cool.

02:38.93
Andrew
Nice. Yeah, we got to actually we got to decide on an actual an actual bet or something. But I don't want to do that right the second because I have too many other things I'm trying to do right this second.

02:46.30
Sean
Yeah.

02:52.07
Sean
For sure.

02:52.29
Andrew
I'm like, I don't want to take on a writing bet.

02:54.63
Sean
ah sure

02:55.72
Andrew
Maybe maybe in a ah month or two.

02:59.59
Sean
um How's your trip by the way, you went through a cabin.

03:03.82
Andrew
Yeah, Trip was great. u

Season 2: Episode 4
Did you know AI really loves the word delve? Sean and Andrew can't help starting the pod off with a little more AI talk. Then they get into Sean's new product he's working on. Meanwhile Andrew is putting aside his IDE and starting to shift his focus to marketing and selling ChartJuice. He talks about using Flow.club to focus and setting a goal of doing two hours of deep work every day. Sean asks Andrew if he would sell ChartJuice if someone made him an offer tomorrow. And Sean and Andrew talk about working together on a new client project!
Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...Cider: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
Transcript:00:00.77
Sean
What's up? What's up? How you doing?

00:03.03
Andrew
Not bad. What happened to our theme music? I thought you were supposed to be coming in every week with a new theme song.

00:09.35
Sean
So, you know, it's actually a little bit harder to use. than i Yeah.

00:14.64
Andrew
Isn't this the classic story of all of these AI tools is it's like, it seems great at first glance. And then you start trying to really use it for something and you start going, oh, this is so much work to get out of this, what I want to get out of it.

00:28.82
Sean
Yeah, 100%. I think like it doesn't have it doesn't have the levers I would want. you know I can't like dial a voice. I can't like switch. I have to use a prompt to change. like Do I want a male singer or a female singer? Do I want it to be you know louder here? I can't i can't say like I want to be louder here or different here. I feel like that.

00:49.46
Andrew
You need a cringe dial. Let me crank the cringe all the way down to zero.

00:51.24
Sean
Yeah. Yeah, i don't think i don't the thing is AI doesn't know what that is, which is crazy.

00:55.60
Andrew
AI doesn't understand cringe. AI is by default cringe. That's that's why we still have jobs.

00:58.85
Sean
You know?

01:01.89
Sean
um I've been looking at some other AI things and God.

01:07.62
Sean
which AI really likes the word Delve. Did you know that?

01:10.59
Andrew
Oh, interesting. I have not noticed that.

01:11.63
Sean
Yeah. I think Paul Graham had a tweet or something to say like that's like the one of the biggest indicators that someone's seeing AI and they never saw it and then until I finally like um I was pulling a transcription out and then trying to get a summary just to see how any of that works and the amount of times it uses Delve is astounding and

01:31.86
Andrew
That's fascinating.

01:32.63
Sean
There's nothing I can't, i you know, once it's like a wrapper around whatever sort of AI tool, I can't tell it to, you know, at that point, I can't even change the prompt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um.

01:42.85
Andrew
By the way, I really want to try out a couple of different transcription tools to see if any any of them can do a better job with our voices because Zincaster is not terrible, but it's a little bit of a mess.

01:45.78
Sean
Hmm.

01:57.05
Sean
Hmm.

01:57.49
Andrew
I do think the, Post edit transcription is usually better.

02:03.85
Sean
Mm-hmm.

02:04.19
Andrew
like I see a pretty noticeable improvement from pre-edit and post-edit, so that's kind of interesting.

02:06.81
Sean
Mm-hmm.

02:09.69
Andrew
But I'm really curious, like what if Podscan actually has the best the best transcriptions?

02:10.71
Sean
Maybe.

02:14.46
Sean
maybe

02:15.85
Andrew
Or yeah know maybe Transistor's new transcription tool will be better because that's all they're doing?

02:16.09
Sean
Maybe.

02:21.50
Sean
Yeah.

02:25.24
Andrew
I don't know.

02:25.29
Sean
Is there a job to be good at that?

02:27.00
Andrew
Yeah, I guess it's Zincaster's job to get that right as much as Transistor's job. but um It might even be the same person powering b

Season 2: Episode 3
It's a Small Efforts Double Header! We were late getting this episode out, so we decided to go ahead and publish two weeks of episodes at once. In this episode Andrew is coming straight from a tattoo session, and talks about fighting bugs with ChartJuice. Meanwhile, Sean has gotten over 300 APPLICATIONS to his open job post, almost all from Dribbble. And he previews the consumer SaaS/community he's building on the side. Andrew and Sean discuss the strategy behind the new ConvertKit rebrand, and finally debate whether AI-generated book notes can be a good growth strategy for Andrew's personal blog.
Differences between serverless functions and edge functions according to Claude:
Execution Location: Serverless functions run on the cloud provider's servers centralized in large data centers, while edge functions run on edge servers distributed across multiple locations closer to the user.Latency: Edge functions have lower latency compared to serverless functions due to their proximity to the user.Scalability and resource constraints: Serverless functions scale automatically based on demand, while edge functions have a more limited scalability. Edge servers generally have less compute power and storage compared to cloud servers.Use Cases: Serverless functions are better suited for compute-intensive tasks, while edge functions are more efficient for data processing and content delivery near the user.Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
Transcript:00:00:00.69
Sean
What's up?

00:00:02.02
Andrew
Not much, just got back from a little tattoo session, got some fresh ink.

00:00:06.48
Sean
Very cool. What did what you get?

00:00:08.97
Andrew
Uh, got a piece of flash. So I was at a fundraiser for, um, a friend's, a friend was organizing the fundraiser. He's part of this group called prism, um, that raises money to support, uh, GSAs in schools, which used to stand for gay straight alliances.

00:00:19.32
Sean
Cool.

00:00:27.96
Andrew
Now I think stand for gender sexuality alliances.

00:00:31.21
Sean
Okay.

00:00:31.48
Andrew
Um, so he's part of this group prism. They were doing a fundraiser and they had a raffle as part of the fundraiser.

00:00:38.18
Sean
Hmm.

00:00:38.43
Andrew
And they were raffling off three flash tattoos. Um, so it was like a design and you could put. ticket in, and if you won, you would get that tattoo. And um I like two of them. And so I put a ticket in each one and was like, well, let fate decide. And I got picked. And so I went and got this cool vase with, it's like kind of an abstract vase with monstera leaves sticking out.

00:01:04.13
Sean
Yeah.

00:01:06.90
Andrew
And it's my first leg tattoo, got it on my thigh. um it will be very visible when I wear shorts.

00:01:14.20
Sean
Hell yeah.

00:01:14.51
Andrew
um So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:01:15.18
Sean
Five inch the blue velvet shorts.

00:01:18.18
Andrew
When I wear my short shorts, which is all I wear.

00:01:19.60
Sean
Nice.

00:01:20.58
Andrew
So, um yeah, I'm pretty into it.

00:01:20.75
Sean
Nice.

00:01:23.87
Andrew
It was cool. This was my first, I guess it was my second flash tattoo. um But the artist, she was great. Her name was Ali Gostella, I think. Super chill, super welcoming, had a great time, made the experience fantastic.

00:01:40.32
Sean
Hmm.

00:01:41.67
Andrew
And one of the cool parts was she really was stoked about this design, which was so much fun because she was having fun tattooing it and was really hyped and excited about it. And that made it more fun and made me more excited about getting it. And so it was just like just good energy.

00:01:55.53
Sean
Nice.

00:01:58.07
Sean
I like it. Congrats.

00:01:59.08
Andrew
Yeah.

00:01:59.96
Sean
Yeah, congr

Season 2: Episode 2
It's a Small Efforts Double Header! We were late getting this episode out, so we decided to go ahead and publish two weeks of episodes at once. In this episode Andrew talks about quietly pushing ChartJuice live, and raves about his new favorite podcast. Meanwhile Sean drops some knowledge about the intricacies of swag supply chains, and the guys discuss the trap of being an expert beginner vs a true expert. Finally, Sean talk about a leadership retreat he's going on soon.
Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
Transcript:00:00.00
Sean Sun
Yeah, hey doing sorry late.

00:00.64
Andrew
All good man I've just been over here sipping on my in Zony Happy as can be.

00:06.41
Sean Sun
Ah, there you good there Good How's your week been. What's you been up to.

00:13.49
Andrew
Um, not a bad week. Um, let's see I haven't been hella productive this week but I've been making steady progress. So um.

00:29.64
Andrew
Think this happened after last week's pod. Um, so I sent out chart juice for feedback to a small group of friends you um, awesome price Greg um, handful of people and.

00:49.48
Andrew
My friends are super generous and so a bunch of people took the time to create an account and give me some feedback and a lot of feedback I got was like hey this is cool. Um, you know Austin understandably spent a bunch time on the ux and was like hey you know you should left a line. Your text anytime you have more than a line or two because it becomes harder to read when it's center aligned and I was like dope didn't know that that's a really helpful rule of thumb. Thanks for telling me um and then like Greg um in very Greg fashion pointed out. Hey on the signup form you should really have a couple of statements about the value props and like what people are going to get out of this to help encourage them to finish the signup process which is very Greg always thinking from the perspective of the user and thinking about like how do we optimize this. Um, so that was super helpful. My friend Kevin who is one of the original partners in crit and a super talented engineer took a very engineer's approach to it and he was like hey just so you know if you put in a ah. Width of greater than a hundred thousand pixels it breaks and I was like cool I don't care and like he obviously knew I wouldn't care but you know took took a very engineer approach to it and.

02:09.31
Sean Sun
Yeah, yeah.

02:19.44
Sean Sun
Um, yeah.

02:21.86
Andrew
Ah, like looked for the edge cases the weird extreme edge cases. The other one was like if you add more than 21 elements to a pie chart then the legend gets really wonky like create. Um, so.

02:39.40
Sean Sun
I think that's a hold on I just want to point out I don't think I think that's a feature not a bug I think no one should be adding 21 elements to a pie chart like a pizza doesn't have 21 slices yeah um

02:41.61
Andrew
Yeah.

02:49.77
Andrew
I Love it? Yeah yeah, yeah, we we intentionally make your chart look like shit past a certain point because like why stop.

02:56.87
Sean Sun
Right? right? Exactly There's a hidden feature that if you make it look like it'll all turn brown and.

03:03.80
Andrew
I mean the good thing to do would be if you use more than 8 elements or something in your pie chart. We just automatically start combining the smallest ones that would be nifty but um, but my favorite piece of advice came from my friend ramy um, who is an indie hacker.

03:13.12
Sean Sun
Um.

03:21.69
Andrew
Um, based out of the Uk and repeat founder has a few successful small products under his belt and his advice was basically good enough ship it and I was like that's you're so f*****g right? so.

03:33.50
Sean Sun
Nice.

03:41.60
Andrew
Um, yeah, the first half of this we

Andrew and Sean are back for Season 2! In Season 2 they'll get transparent about the highs and lows of building their businesses (with plenty of goofing around too). Same concept, new businesses.
In this episode we recap WHERE THE HELL WE'VE BEEN FOR TWO YEARS. Plus we talk about the projects we're working on now, how to market and validate Andrew's new startup, and Sean's search for founder friends. 
Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
Transcript:
00:00.73SeanAll right? don't scream this time. Maybe I'll cut that front part out. Um, okay, take 4 episode 1 season 2 small efforts like no see oh yeah, me too.
00:11.35AndrewAh, but what's up man Glad to be back. Ah back on the pod with you.
00:18.76SeanToo I'm excited to be doing this again. It's been a fun 6 ones of a dry run. Um, so ah.
00:22.92AndrewIt wouldn't be us if we didn't record for six months and then finally describe decide to scrap all of those recordings and just say fuck it. Let's go live or as close to live as we can get.
00:32.53SeanYeah, yeah, yeah, it's literally how I've built the michigans website every single iteration actually I spent months on it and then I'm like f**k. And I just do it in the black in my hotel room right? before blackhead starts in a day like yeah, good enough I don't care if it's not perfect. Um, what's been going on. Why have we disappeared what happened you know what happened to season 1 I'm sure everyone wants to know.
01:02.54AndrewAh, yeah, um, yeah, it's been 2 years almost to the day like pretty close to it. So um, we were running the podcast before and had set it up in a way to be like.
01:05.75SeanOur 11 listeners.
01:22.00AndrewFairly highly highly produced and um in a way that required as little involvement from us after recording as possible so we had an awesome producer and an editing team who would take care of everything for us. Um, but that also meant it was. A little bit expensive to create um and then I went and sold my business and that meant that half of our funding disappeared. So I sold crit almost two years ago exactly um, sold the company to.
01:47.45SeanHell yeah, a girl. Yeah, he did.
01:58.77AndrewOf our longtime clients grayyno which was an awesome experience. I still haven't really written about the experience of going through this sale process. It might be hard to do now I've I'm sure I've already forgotten a lot. Um, but it was it was a really. Really fascinating experience to go through I think our sale was really pretty easy and pretty fast compared to a lot of people because we already knew each other really well um, and structured it in a way that that due diligence was pretty simple. So um, yeah, sold crit two years ago
02:23.90SeanA 5
02:36.57AndrewThen went to work at graynoy for a year um so learned a ton in that time about security and technology and what it's like to be part of a larger team as hilarious as it is a 50 person team is like by far the biggest team I'd ever been a part of.
02:53.75SeanYeah.
02:55.78AndrewUm, and ah learned about management and it was like a year of speed learning. Um, it was really interesting. Had a lot of fun. Um, and then ultimately got fired which was kind of. Ah, shock and kind of not a shock. Um, ultimately I think it just wasn't as good a fit on either side as either of us were were hoping for um, still have a ton of friends there and still am rooting for them all to be successful. Um, you know it's funny I've mentioned that I got fired to. Entrepreneur friends and to like non-onpreneur friends and non-onreneur friends are generally like oh my god are you? okay like what's ah, what's wrong. What can I do to help and then all my entrepreneur friends are like yeah I kind of expected that we're just ah.
03:46.18SeanYeah, yeah,

In this episode, Andrew and Sean take the next step to make this a rock climbing podcast, talk about the special guests in their backyards, and discuss the relationship between rebranding and religion.