38 episodes

Sounds of SAND is a podcast from Science and Nonduality which contemplates and reveres the beauty, complexity, pain, and great mystery that weave the infinite cycles of existence.
We explore beyond ultimate truths, binary thinking, and individual awakening while acknowledging humanity as a mere part of the intricate web of life.

Episodes tap into SAND’s rich history and collaborative future by presenting talks, dialogs, interviews, readings, music, and recordings from SAND Conferences, events, and webinars weaving timeless wisdom and embodied experience.
Let’s listen, learn, and share.

➡️ Find out more at scienceandnonduality.com

💌 Reach out to us at podcast@scienceandnonduality.com

Sounds of SAND Science and Nonduality

    • Society & Culture
    • 4.9 • 24 Ratings

Sounds of SAND is a podcast from Science and Nonduality which contemplates and reveres the beauty, complexity, pain, and great mystery that weave the infinite cycles of existence.
We explore beyond ultimate truths, binary thinking, and individual awakening while acknowledging humanity as a mere part of the intricate web of life.

Episodes tap into SAND’s rich history and collaborative future by presenting talks, dialogs, interviews, readings, music, and recordings from SAND Conferences, events, and webinars weaving timeless wisdom and embodied experience.
Let’s listen, learn, and share.

➡️ Find out more at scienceandnonduality.com

💌 Reach out to us at podcast@scienceandnonduality.com

    #38 Weaving the Eternal Golden Braid: Donald Hoffman & Rupert Spira

    #38 Weaving the Eternal Golden Braid: Donald Hoffman & Rupert Spira

    “For now, what is important is not finding the answer, but looking for it.”― Douglas R. Hofstadter, Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid 

    Donald Hoffman is a cognitive scientist and author of more than 100 scientific papers and three books, including  Visual Intelligence: How We Create What We See  (W.W. Norton, 2000). He received his BA from UCLA in Quantitative Psychology and his Ph.D. from MIT in Computational Psychology. He joined the faculty of UC Irvine in 1983, where he is now a full professor in the departments of cognitive science, computer science and philosophy. He received a Distinguished Scientific Award of the American Psychological Association for early career research into visual perception, the Rustum Roy Award of the Chopra Foundation, and the Troland Research Award of the US National Academy of Sciences. He was chosen by students at UC Irvine to receive a campus-wide teaching award, and to be included in Who’s Who Among America’s Teachers.

    Hoffman studies visual perception, visual attention and consciousness using mathematical models, computer simulations, and psychological experiments. His empirical research has led to new insights into how we perceive objects, colors and motion. His theoretical research has led to a “user interface” theory of perception, which proposes that natural selection shapes our perceptions not to report truth but simply to guide adaptive behavior; this is the subject of his TED Talk entitled “ Do we see reality as it is ?” and of an article in The Atlantic entitled “ The case against reality .”  It has also led to a “ conscious realism ” theory of consciousness—which proposes a formal model of consciousness and a new solution to the mind-body problem.

    Rupert Spira lives in the UK and holds regular meetings and retreats in Europe and the U.S. In these meetings he explores the perennial non-dual understanding that lies at the heart of all the great religious and spiritual traditions, such as Advaita Vedanta, Kashmir Shaivism, Hinduism, Buddhism, mystical Christianity, Sufism and Zen, and which is also the direct, ever-present reality of our own experience. It is a contemporary, experiential approach involving silent meditation, guided meditation and conversation, and it requires no affiliation to any particular religious or spiritual tradition. All that is needed is an interest in the essential nature of experience, and in the longing for love, peace and happiness around which most of our lives revolve.

    Rupert is author of The Transparency of Things – Contemplating the Nature of Experience (2008); Presence, in two volumes: The Art of Peace and Happiness and The Intimacy of All Experience (2012); The Light of Pure Knowing – Thirty Meditations on the Essence of Non-Duality (2014); The Ashes of Love (2016); and Transparent Body, Luminous World – The Tantric Yoga of Sensation and Perception (2017). Forthcoming titles include The Nature of Consciousness – Essays on the Unity of Mind and Matter (2017) and The Essence of Meditation – Being Aware of Being Aware (2017).


    00:00:00 – Introduction

    00:03:30 – What’s at the Your Current Edge?

    00:10:35 – Is the Mind the Right Instrument for Exploring Consciousness?

    00:18:52 – Resting in the Unknown and What Is Understanding, The Ultimate Science?

    00:26:44 – What Does the Ego Want?

    00:37:00 – Why Does the One Let Itself Go Unconscious?

    00:52:00 – What Are The Limits of Language and Thoughts to Express Consciousness?

    00:56:56 – The Amplitudhedron and Beyond

    01:02:00 – How Can We Perceive Outside of Spacetime?

    01:16:39 – Spiritual Bypassing: Awakening and Transcending

    –Previous Episode with Donald Hoffman and Rupert Spira hosted by Simon Mundie: The Convergence of Science and Spirituality | Donald Hoffman & Rupert Spira 

    • 1 hr 29 min
    #37 Collective Consciousness: Orland Bishop

    #37 Collective Consciousness: Orland Bishop

    Orland Bishop is the founder and director of ShadeTree Multicultural Foundation in Los Angeles, where he has pioneered approaches to urban truces and mentoring at-risk youth that combine new ideas with traditional ways of knowledge. ShadeTree serves as an intentional community of mentors, elders, teachers, artists, healers, and advocates for the healthy development of children and youth. Orland’s work in healing and human development is framed by an extensive study of medicine, naturopathy, psychology, and Indigenous cosmologies, primarily those of South and West Africa.

    Find more about the Three Black Men: A Journey Into the Magical Otherwise series with Orland Bishop, Resmaa Menakem, and Bayo Akomolafe.

    Purchase tickets to watch the North American live web stream and download the recording of this event


    00:00 – Introduction

    03:17 – Part 1, Are We a Part of the Same Reality?

    05:12 – ”I Give You My Word”

    10:00 – Know Thyself

    13:00 – Shared Inner Freedom & Trust

    16:13 – Shared States of Consciousness

    23:40 – Part 2, What Gives Form to Consciousness

    30:44 – Light of Consciousness

    37:35 – Collective and Racialized Trauma Questions from the Group

    46:10 – Where Does History Go?

    • 59 min
    #36 Holographic Being: Mukti

    #36 Holographic Being: Mukti

    Mukti’s name originates in Sanskrit and is most often translated as “liberation,” a term used in Vedanta and Buddhism much the way the term “salvation” is used in Christianity. Mukti has been the Associate Teacher of Open Gate Sangha since 2004 and has been a student of her husband, Adyashanti, since he began teaching in 1996, when they founded Open Gate Sangha together.

    Previously, Mukti was raised and schooled in the Catholic tradition and also studied the teachings of Paramahansa Yogananda for over 20 years—two paths that have greatly informed her journeys into meditation, introspection, and prayer. She holds a master’s degree in Traditional Chinese Medicine, a license in acupuncture, and a Hatha Yoga teaching certification. These backgrounds in body awareness and the healing arts, as well as her years of study with Adyashanti, largely inform her presentation style, her recommended inquiry methods, and her interest in the energetic unfolding of realization and embodiment.

    Links:Open Gate Sangha 

    The Energetics of Awakening Course  

    The Center for Humane Technology  

    The One of Us: Living from the Heart of Illumined Relationship (Sounds True) Topics:

    00:00 – Introduction

    04:41 – Energetics of Awakening

    11:45 – Spiritual Bypassing / Shadow / Integration

    18:08 – Evolution / Deepening of Mukti’s Teaching

    21:29 – Sacredness of Attention in the Attention Economy

    30:07 – Importance of Spiritual Community

    33:08 – The Spiritual Path of Paradox and the Shared Field of Awareness

    50:11 – Holographic Being

    55:36 – The Importance of the Fundamentals of Practice

    57:59 – Being in a Dharmic Romantic Relationship

    • 1 hr 9 min
    #35 Deep Medicine: Rupa Marya

    #35 Deep Medicine: Rupa Marya

    Dr. Rupa Marya illuminates the hidden connections between our biological systems and the profound injustices of our political and economic systems. What is deep medicine?  How can re-establishing our relationships with the Earth and one another help us to heal? The first part of the episode is taken from a live SAND Community Conversation hosted by SAND Co-founders Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo.

    The book Inflamed: Deep Medicine and the Anatomy of Injustice by Rupa Marya and Raj Patel is available now.

    In the second part of this episode, Rupa is part of a panel hosted by Dr. Gabor Maté as part of The Wisdom of Trauma film launch 'Talks on Trauma' series. This panel discussion is called: “How Trauma Literacy Can Transform Medicine” with MDs: Pamela Wible, Will Van Derveer, Jeffrey Rediger, Dr. Gabor Maté, and Rupa Marya.

    You can listen to this entire panel and 32 other talks as part of The Wisdom of Trauma All Access Pass.

    Dr. Rupa Marya  is a physician, activist, writer, mother, and a composer. She is a Professor of Medicine at the University of California, San Francisco, where she practices and teaches internal medicine. Her work sits at the nexus of climate, health and racial justice. Dr Marya founded and directs the Deep Medicine Circle, a women of color-led organization committed to healing the wounds of colonialism through food, medicine, story, restoration and learning. She is also a co-founder of the Do No Harm Coalition, a collective of health workers committed to addressing disease through structural change. Dr Marya was recognized in 2021 with the Women Leaders in Medicine Award by the American Medical Student Association. She was a reviewer of the American Medical Association's Organizational Strategic Plan to Embed Racial Justice and Advance Health Equity. Because of her work in health equity, Dr. Marya was appointed by Governor Newsom to the Healthy California for All Commission, to advance a model for universal healthcare in California. She has toured twenty-nine countries with her band, Rupa and the April Fishes, whose music was described by the legend Gil Scott-Heron as “Liberation Music.” Together with Raj Patel, she co-authored the international bestselling book Inflamed: Deep Medicine and the Anatomy of Injustice.


    01:00:00 – Introduction

    01:03:16 – Part 1, SAND Community Conversation

    01:04:28 – Rupa’s Personal Story and Childhood

    01:07:58 – Patterns in Traditional vs. Western Medicine and the Writing of ‘Inflamed’

    01:11:10 – Influence of Collective and Individual Trauma of Health

    01:12:49 – Colonial Power Structures in Medicine

    01:15:39 – Climate Collapse and Global Health

    01:17:27 – Indigenous Wisdom of the Interconnected Web of Life

    01:21:11 – How Do We Heal in a Balanced Way?

    01:31:33 – Part 2, How Trauma Literacy Can Transform Medicine with Gabor Maté

    01:35:59 – Pamela Wilbe Introduction

    01:38:37 – Jeffery Rediger Introduction

    01:41:55 – Will Van Derveer Introduction

    01:46:35 – Rupa Marya Introduction

    01:51:15 – Jeffrey Rediger Introduction

    01:54:17 – Overcoming Incurable Diseases

    02:03:45 – The Science of How Society Gets Into Our Cells

    02:36:39 – Conclusions

    • 1 hr 38 min
    #34 Converations on Complexity: Neil Theise

    #34 Converations on Complexity: Neil Theise

    “We are not walking through the world; we are interwoven with it. In everything we do, we participate in complexity."–Neil Theise

    Neil Theise is a professor of pathology at the NYU Grossman School of Medicine. Through his scientific research, he has been a pioneer of adult stem cell plasticity and the anatomy of the human interstitium. Dr. Theise’s studies in complexity theory have led to interdisciplinary collaborations in fields such as integrative medicine, consciousness studies, and science-religion dialogue.

    Neil’s new book, which we discuss on the episode, is Notes on Complexity

    The book is “An electrifying introduction to complexity theory, the science of how complex systems behave—from cells to human beings, ecosystems, the known universe, and beyond—that profoundly reframes our understanding and illuminates our interconnectedness.”

    Mentioned in the episode:

    The Source by James A. Michener

    Everything Only Looks Like a Thing with Neil Theise at the Science and Nonduality Conference

    Chaos: Making a New Science by James Gleick

    Introduction to John Conway’s “Game of Life”

    Some examples of emergent patterns in the “Game of Life”

    Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid by Douglas R. Hofstadter


    00:00 – Introduction

    02:15 – Neil’s Scientific and Spiritual Background

    08:29 – Complexity and the Merging of Science and Spirituality

    15:48 – Complex vs Complicated

    22:14 – Chaos, Fractals, and Emergence

    29:48 – Biological Emergence

    36:44 – Incompleteness Theorem, Quantum Physics, and Consciousness

    47:02 – Complexity and Resiliency

    • 52 min
    #33 Intimacy with the Sacred: Mirabai Starr

    #33 Intimacy with the Sacred: Mirabai Starr

    Mirabai Starr is an award-winning author of creative non-fiction and contemporary translationsof sacred literature. She taught Philosophy and World Religions at the University of NewMexico-Taos for 20 years and now teaches and speaks internationally on contemplative practiceand inter-spiritual dialog. A certified bereavement counselor, Mirabai helps mourners harness the transformational power of loss. Her latest book, WILD MERCY: Living the Fierce & TenderWisdom of the Women Mystics, was named one of the “Best Books of 2019”. She lives with herextended family in the mountains of northern New Mexico.

    Mirabai’s Online Greif Community: Holy Lament


    02:31 – Inter-spirituality Practice and Mirabai’s Path10:30 – What is Mysticism?16:23 – Nondual Spirituality: Devotion and Surrender21:33 – Tikkun Olam (“to repair of the world”) and Being with the pain in the world29:14 – St. John of the Cross and the Dark Night of the Soul38:20 – Mirabai’s Dark Night of the Soul in Losing Her Daughter Jenny41:59 – The Portal into Grief47:23 – The Importance of Grieving in Community49:44 – Mirabai’s Online Grief Community

    • 51 min

Customer Reviews

4.9 out of 5
24 Ratings

24 Ratings

Iorderintoomuch ,


I can’t even relate how thought provoking and important the conversations in this podcast are- whether you agree or not with the viewpoint- it’s conversations and thinking that needs to be happening. May it help guide us into the compassionate future we need now ❤️

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