Special Guest: Oz Krakowski - Deepdub

Anne welcomes Oz Krakowski from DeepDub, a company specializing in dubbing and voiceover end-to-end localization. Oz and Anne discuss the evolving technology and the importance of protecting the integrity and earnings of professional voice actors. They look at the ethical landscape of AI, the significance of artist compensation, and the transformative effect technology is having on voiceover work. With the rise of deepfakes and synthetic voice replication casting shadows of concern, they discuss the pressing need to protect voice artists' identities. They also navigate the intricacies of consent and compensation in voiceover AI models. This episode is a call for trust and clarity in the dynamic dance between technology and the voice talents that bring authenticity to AI-generated content. 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VEO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

00:20 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VEO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Ann Ganguzza, and I am truly excited to be here with a very special guest, Krakowski. Oz is an experienced executive with a rich background in business and technology, especially in the entertainment industry. His current role at DeepDub showcases his deep involvement in the realm of media and film, where he leverages innovative technology to enhance the industry's landscape. His extensive knowledge and insights have made him a sought after figure in film and media conferences. Oz, thank you so much for joining us today. We're so happy to have you here. 

00:57 - Tom (Co-host) Hi Anne, so pleased to be here and thank you for inviting me and looking forward to our discussion. 

01:02 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely. I'm excited to talk to you about the technology. So, first and foremost, for our listeners, tell us a little bit about DeepDub and your role there and your particular experience in working with voice actors. 

01:16 - Tom (Co-host) Absolutely so. Deepdub is a company that is focusing on AI, or generative AI, I should say solutions for audiovisual content, with an aim to democratize the ability to globalize content. We started by focusing on entertainment content, working with big studios small and large, actually and localizing and providing them the capabilities to use synthetic voices and different generative AI tools in order to localize their content. Specifically for me, I'm based in Dallas in the United States. I am responsible for business development, partnerships, strategic accounts, been with the company almost from the beginning. The company started in 2019, so we're pretty young in the world of, in the traditional world of localization. However, in the world of AI, we're among the first. 

02:06 - Anne (Host) You're veterans, you're veterans. 

02:08 - Tom (Co-host) Exactly, exactly. I always joke that it's like dog years every quarter it's like another leap forward in technology and advancements. We were there before. Generative AI was a common phrase on everyone's discussion. Absolutely this is generally about DeepDub DeepDub is really committed to the entertainment industry and asked about how we work with voice actors. There is a lot and I'm sure we're going to unpack it here in the discussion. 

02:33 - Anne (Host) Oh yeah, obviously, as you know, being a voice actor myself and you having worked with voice actors in the industry, I'm sure you understand the concerns of, basically, actors and artists in the creative fields and their concerns about AI. I think that it's important that all of us, voice actors included, we educate ourselves on this evolving technology to figure out how we can work with it, because I don't think we're going to stop it. Number one I've certainly seen lots of evidence of that in the past few years. I mean, it has just been breakneck speed in developing synthetic voices. From your perspective, what would you say are the major concerns surrounding the usage of AI in entertainment? In the entertainment industry? 

03:21 - Tom (Co-host) Absolutely. I followed your podcast and I see the work that you've done on AI. I truly respect the will and intention to actually be aware of it. Like you said, I think it's also acknowledged today that this is pretty much unstoppable. The question is, how do we get in front of it? How do we actually address the concerns? How do we work together and not necessarily try to do anything that is one-sided? 

03:45 In the end, everyone has fear when it comes to change and changing landscape or changing conditions, especially when it comes to a person level. People have their fears and a deep that we're trying to address them instead of not trying to behind anything. We're addressing them by working with the industry, by adhering to common practices, to the most recent laws or ethical codes that have been published. One of the things that we've just recently announced about a month ago I think it's almost like a month and a half ago, just when the actor strike was concluded we announced what we call the Voice Actors Royalty Program, which is a clear step forward in terms of giving voice actors, specifically professional voice actors, the ability to get compensated for the use of their voice in AI-powered projects. 

04:40 That specifically addresses professional voice actors. We did not open it to the public. In fact, when you join the program, we actually ask for proof that you are a professional voice actor. Once we get that proof, we vet it. We actually make sure that this is the right that you are indeed who you claim you are, or with the specific credentials. 

05:00 - Anne (Host) You have to do that today, in this age of AI. 

05:04 - Tom (Co-host) Because essentially I have a microphone, I can claim that I'm a voice actor. It's not that it's not going to be open ever to everyone, but the intention initially is to ease voice actors that we are not going to use their voice without their full consent and without them getting compensated for it. I think that's very important. 

05:23 - Anne (Host) Yes, I agree with you 100%. I think one of the biggest issues now is because it's the Wild West out there I like to use that term all the time in the voice acting industry because it's always been like a Wild West of rates. With new media and digital media, it's the Wild West of synthetic voices in AI. Now there are so many technical things that arise in terms of how can voice actors protect their voice? There are… a lot of companies out there drafting up these ethical policies and agreements that they post on their websites, and I think there is a bigger issue at stake where I think that it's wonderful when companies can proclaim and create policies and ethical guidelines, but what's out there? Who's out there that's enforcing them? Number one, I think really at a federal level or a global scale, there needs to be laws and regulations on that, and I think that's where we're going to be playing catch up, for maybe I don't know, this is my guesstimation the next 10 years, maybe more. What are your thoughts on that? 

06:23 - Tom (Co-host) You know what? You're absolutely right and this is, I think, the key challenge that we have, that the legal system is so slow to progress. However, you know, technologically we're advancing fast. So what happens? It leaves the playing field, you know, open for interpretation, and this is where it really matters. 

06:42 - Intro (Announcement) And, just like you, said this is the wild west. 

06:44 - Tom (Co-host) Exactly, and this is where it's really important when you partner with a company to actually do the background work, make sure that you're working with a company that really cares about not only the output, but also how you achieve that output, because today you can achieve that output in many ways, but it's really important who are the people, what's their track record, how do they do things, and not only what do they achieve in the end and why? Because there is no global enforcement right now. 

07:12 I think it's going to get there eventually. There's no way around it. 

07:15 - Anne (Host) It's going to have to get there, but it's just going to yeah. 

07:18 But what happens in the interim? I think that's the biggest thing. I have so many questions for you and one of them, of course, I wanted to like wait a little bit, but obviously I'm sure you've heard of the groundbreaking agreements between SAG-AFTRA and Replica, another AI company, in terms of working with actors and voice actors to protect them, and I think that that was a step in a positive direction, toward companies wanting to be more accountable, to not just themselves and not just their own ethical guidelines. Like I know, there's so many wonderful organizations out there trying to create guidelines and research, and I think that that's great, but I also think that is a step towards I would say, at least a company solidifying that they are serious about protecting the rights of creatives and actors and voice actors. What are your thoughts on that? Is that something that you have been looking into or a place where you might go in the future? 

08:09 - Tom (Co-host) Absolutely. First of all, sag-aftra is in the United States, so I think it's a great step forward for sure Definitely protects and sets the tone for unions and guilds worldwide. We have been discussing for some time with the BFFS, which is like the SAG-AFTRA or the similar union in Germany. I, just for the sake of discussion, I was invited by them last June to talk about AI in the film industry at the Munic