The ALPS In Brief Podcast

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A podcast for lawyers by lawyers brought to you by ALPS insurance. ALPS In Brief Podcast Intro/Outro Music: Walk In The Park by Audionautix is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Artist: http://audionautix.com/

  1. 12/17/2025

    Reaching Out: The Superpowers of Kindness and Connection

    Hi everyone. I'm Rio Laine, the Director of Strategic Partnerships at ALPS Insurance. Welcome to our latest installment of the Alps In Brief Podcast. I am joined today by our Chief Financial Officer, Sara Smith, and she is also the president of the Montana Society of CPAs.  Her theme for her term as president is connection, which is a value that runs through both her leadership and her life. So at ALPS, Sara helps guide a growing company that's redefining what it means to lead with purpose. And when she's not leading finance teams, she's often on a mountain bike trail somewhere in Montana. So exploring new terrain, both literally and figuratively.  So thank you so much for joining us, Sara.  Sara Smith:  Thanks, Rio. Thanks for having me.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, it's a pleasure. I'm happy we got this chance to sit down and chat about all the exciting things you have going on, and I'm really looking forward to our discussion.  Sara Smith:  Yeah, me too.  Rio Laine:  Yeah.  So okay, let's start with your story, the beginning. What first drew you to accounting and being a CPA?  Sara Smith:  That's a great question.  When I was in high school, I took accounting and they taught the class with a packet, right? And it had the balance sheet and income statement and all the journal entries. And it was such a neat and clean process, and I really enjoyed that. But when I went to college, I thought, "I am much too exciting to be an accountant. I have way more things that I would like to do and this seems really boring." So I went the long way. I got my undergraduate in marketing and management and got my MBA, and then discovered accounting and pursued my CPA after that.  Rio Laine:  Oh, awesome. And did you kind of revisit that love of that kind of order and the balance sheet and all the nice orderly parts of it?  Sara Smith:  Yeah. I think the thing ... There's a misconception about accounting that it is very black and white. And in reality, it's really messy and it has a lot of shades of gray, which make it much more challenging than it looks on paper.  Rio Laine:  Yeah. Oh, interesting.  So before joining ALPS, you spent a lot of time working for a variety of companies, including Target and Montana Rail Link. So I'm very curious, can you tell us a little bit about that path and what eventually led you to ALPS?  Sara Smith:  Absolutely.  So I was an intern at Target when I went to college here at the University of Montana. It was such a fun internship. I mean, we just basically ran around that store and did whatever we wanted. And I thought, "Oh, well, if this is how the work turns out, then I want to join this team." And there weren't a lot of good job prospects when I graduated from college, so I moved to Colorado with Target and went through their store management training program, which was a lot of hands-on management, which was great. I really enjoyed it.  It wasn't long into that process though that I realized that this was not for me. Retail was not going to be a long-term career. And I utilized their program to pay for graduate school and I went and got into my MBA program.  So I did that for a couple of years, and then 9/11 happened and decided to move back to Montana; and had a friend of a friend that worked at Montana Rail Link and got in the accounting department there. And I didn't love it, to be honest. It was not my favorite place, mainly because of culture.  Rio Laine:  Yeah.  Sara Smith:  And so my advisor suggested that I try ALPS, and I've been there 22 years.  Rio Laine:  Wow. Yeah, it's true. I mean, culture is such an important part of a workplace.  And so in terms of ALPS, I mean, obviously the culture was appealing, but also is there anything else that made you feel like it was the right fit?  Sara Smith:  Yeah. I came in in a strange part of time in ALPS' history. They were on this really kind of creepy second floor and the doors were closed all the time, and it wasn't actually a very welcoming type atmosphere. And so I really found solace in the accounting department. They liked to have fun, they played jokes on each other. There was just a lot of laughing.  Rio Laine:  Mm-hmm.  Sara Smith:  And so that's something that I really, really enjoyed.  Rio Laine:  Yeah. Oh, that's awesome.  And I mean, there's still a lot of laughing at ALPS, which is really nice. I mean, now we're on a different floor and it's much more open and nice, so ...  Sara Smith:  Yes.  Rio Laine:  Oh, that's awesome. Well, we're obviously very happy that you're part of the ALPS team.  Sara Smith:  Thanks.  Rio Laine:  And you're a really important part of it. I mean, really, you literally make the numbers work, so ...  All right. So let's shift our focus a little bit and talk about the idea of connection and how that plays into your kind of leadership philosophy. You know, you made connection the central theme of your leadership this year kind of personally, but also at the Montana Society of CPAs. So I'm curious to know what inspired you to make that your theme?  Sara Smith:  So there were three things that actually fed into that. First was just from an organizational perspective, people weren't coming to things in person, right?  Rio Laine:  Oh yeah.  Sara Smith:  They were choosing the online option. And then my guess is they were likely multitasking, right?  Rio Laine:  Yes.  Sara Smith:  And so they're missing that opportunity to connect in person.  And then the second thing is the people that did come, you would go to a table and they'd all be on their phones. Right?  Rio Laine:  Oh yeah.  Sara Smith:  And so that is also very challenging. It's hard to connect when you literally have your nose in your device.  And then earlier this year, I was on a flight, and I had a woman sitting next to me and she started to talk to me. And I just wasn't sure if I was going to take the bait, if I was in that place to have that sort of conversation on a plane, and I ultimately decided, "Yes." And we had such a rich conversation and had a lot of connections about a lot of different things that I didn't anticipate, and I actually went and had coffee with her a few months later after she got back from her travels.  Rio Laine:  Oh, really?  Sara Smith:  And so if I had not said yes to that, I wouldn't have formed that new connection. And so that really has just stuck with me, right? You got to say yes in order to engage.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, absolutely. I love that.  I love that you made a new friend on the plane too-  Sara Smith:  Right?  Rio Laine:  ... Because yeah, you never know sometimes.  Sara Smith:  Yeah.  Rio Laine:  I travel a lot and you're like, "Am I going to have this conversation?"  Sara Smith:  Yeah. Right. Exactly.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, yeah. I'm happy you did. That's pretty amazing.  So it sounds like kind of your approach to connection is the idea that it not necessarily comes from doing more, but from being present and kind of saying yes to that. So I mean, what does that mean for you in practice as a leader, but as a person? I mean, aside from saying yes to airplane conversations. Yeah.  Sara Smith:  Yes.  I think that one of the most important things is just not being distracted. And whether that means you put your phone away, you turn it off, you put it someplace where you can't access it, I think that's step number one.  Rio Laine:  Hmm.  Sara Smith:  And then you really intently listen with your whole person and try to understand what that person is really saying to you. I think those are the two things that I really try to take into practice. And it can be hard some days.  Rio Laine:  Yeah. So unplugging and active listening.  Sara Smith:  Yes.  Rio Laine:  Yeah. Both of which, yes, are definitely difficult, especially we live in a time when we're so tied to our devices and we're just expected to be available every second of every day, and yeah, that's a difficult thing to accomplish. So it's ... Yeah, kudos for making that a priority.  Sara Smith:  Right?  Rio Laine:  Yeah.  So in your role as kind of CFO for ALPS, how does that idea of connection show up in how you lead and make decisions?  Sara Smith:  Right. So I think one of the pieces of my job that is really important is building trust, right? You have to trust the numbers, you have to trust what the data that we're looking at is saying, and just the overall data set that you're looking at. And in order to get comfortable with the numbers, you have to be comfortable with the person, right? And you have to have that trust.  Rio Laine:  Yeah.  Sara Smith:  So I think building and establishing strong relationships with the people that I work with is the number one way to build that trust and connection.  Rio Laine:  Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, that is a really, really good point. If you don't trust the person, you're not so sure about those numbers.  Sara Smith:  Right?  Rio Laine:  Yeah. And when you're growing, the numbers are really important, so ...  Sara Smith:  Mm-hmm.  Rio Laine:  Yeah.  Oh, that's pretty awesome. I love how that kind of plays such an important role in your life, but also your leadership. Yeah, that's pretty great.  So let's kind of shift again. I want to transition a little bit and talk about growth and how connection kind of plays into that as well.  So ALPS has been growing pretty rapidly over the last few years, and growth can sometimes make it really hard to stay connected, particularly as we have more remote staff like myself and things move f

    24 min

  2. 06/27/2025

    The State of the Solo: Positive Trends in Solo Attorney Well-Being

    In Episode 2 of our thought leadership podcast series, the Deep Think, ALPS COO and long-time attorney well-being advocate Chris Newbold sits down with ALPS Director of Strategic Partnerships Rio Lane to discuss the surprising and heartening results of our solo well-being survey and trends report. — Rio Laine:  Hey, everyone. I'm Rio Laine with ALPS Insurance, and welcome to the ALPS In Brief Podcast. Today, we'll be talking to ALPS COO Chris Newbold about wellness and ALPS's new Solo Attorney Wellness Trends Report. Hi, Chris. Thanks for joining me today.  Chris Newbold:  Hey, thanks, Rio. Thanks for having me.  Rio Laine:  Yeah. Absolutely. So I would like to start with maybe giving you a chance to introduce yourself to our audience, a little bit about who you are and what you do at ALPS.  Chris Newbold:  Yeah. I'm Chris Newbold. I'm the chief operating officer of ALPS, and one of my great passions, I think, in terms of giving back to the profession has been thinking about the notion of attorney wellness. And not just attorney wellness, but well-being in law more broadly, and that's given me the opportunity to really think about how the legal profession is structured, what people are looking for, where they may perhaps were missing the mark, and then thinking about the systemic reasons why.  I think a lot of lawyers today are struggling in terms of their selection of a profession in which they're not necessarily finding the professional satisfaction that they may have sought when they went into law school.  Rio Laine:  Yeah. Absolutely. And, I mean, I think, as we all know, the concept of wellness and taking care of yourself as a lawyer is relatively new. Up until recently, there was a lot of stigma around that. So it's excellent that we actually get a chance to talk about that and are starting to see good work and traction as far as that's concerned.  Chris Newbold:  Yeah. And the movement, the attorney well-being movement is almost about 10 years old now in terms of a groundbreaking report coming out that stimulated a lot of thought in legal circles around where is this profession, where does it need to go, and then thinking strategically about that.  And again, I've been really fortunate to be at the epicenter of a lot of those conversations in terms of convening groups, convening stakeholders, thinking about research and other things that we can do to kind of document where is the profession and where does it need to go so that we're attracting more people into the profession and not seeing more people exit the profession.  Rio Laine:  Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. And so, speaking of groundbreaking reports, we're going to be talking about ALPS's Solo Attorney Wellness Trends Report, which you have really spearheaded an effort in gathering important data and information about wellness as it relates to solo attorneys. So before we dive into that, I'd like to kind of explore your history in the wellness space. And now, you've been a proponent for well-being in law, and you've done a lot of work with the Institute for Well-Being in Law for some time now. So tell me how you got here and why this is something that really resonates with you.  Chris Newbold:  Yeah. Thinking back on my experiences, one of the things that we were really looking to do is to understand... I went to a small law school with 75 students, and everybody was very excited, I think, about going to law school. Yet, now that I'm out of law school for more than 20 years, the number of folks who have actually reflected and said, "I really am proud of my decision, and I've really enjoyed practicing law," a lot lower than I think that you would obviously think. And so, I think there was an expectations gap between what people thought versus the reality.  And I think one of the things that... Again, I started to lean in on the subject, wrote part of the section for the groundbreaking report, spent three years as the co-chair of the National Task Force on Lawyer Well-Being, and then we parlayed that into creating the Institute for Well-Being in Law, which is something that is really kind of the preeminent think tank in the lawyer well-being space. And so, that organization continues to work to elevate the nature of discussion in legal circles about where this particular issue sits and where we need to go.  Rio Laine:  Right. And just for our audience at home, the kind of initial report that you're referring to was produced by the ABA.  Chris Newbold:  It was actually not.  Rio Laine:  Oh, wow.  Chris Newbold:  It was actually produced by a consortium of groups that were really interested in it. It was the Path to Well-Being in Law, and it provided a number of different recommendations for where the legal profession had needed to go, from the judiciary to lawyer assistance programs, to law firms, to a whole, again, consortium of groups. ABA was part of that, but not necessarily it being kind of an ABA report in and of itself.  Rio Laine:  Got it. Okay. Okay. Excellent. So in terms of attorney wellness, how do you see that kind of impacting not just individuals, but the broader profession?  Chris Newbold:  Yeah. I think you said it well earlier, which is, to be a good lawyer, one has to be a healthy lawyer. And when you have healthy lawyers serving their clients, you're generally going to get better legal services, better results. The notion of what lawyers do is solve problems affecting conflicts within society. And when lawyers aren't well, when they're overstressed, when they're overburdened, when they're burnt out, when they're subject to substance abuse, you can kind of see, when they're not at their best, it's hard to deliver legal services in a way that allows the profession to function well and its ability to serve society well.  So I think there's a real notion that to be a good lawyer, one has to be a healthy lawyer, and that notion, I think, is carrying over to why law firms and bar associations are so interested in the issue, because if we're all unhealthy, then we're not able to ultimately serve what we're here to do, which is to serve the interest of clients.  Rio Laine:  Yeah. Absolutely. That makes a lot of sense. And, I mean, I know we've kind of had this conversation off podcast earlier, but yeah, there is definitely a lot to be said for taking care of yourself so that you can do the best work possible and giving yourself that time. And I know that's something that has been typically very difficult for lawyers. There's been a lot of stigma around mental health and well-being. And so, it's nice to see that that is starting to be something that is a major focus. Well, not starting. Has been for a while, but is really coming to the forefront of people's consciousness.  Chris Newbold:  Yeah. And it's a tough issue, because you have to think about the nature of the profession itself. Right? We're structured in an adversarial system with people pitting one against the other. And so, there's natural conflict. And when you have conflict, a lot of times, that brings a lot of stress and pressure, and you have a lot of Type A personalities that are very motivated and trying to be vigorous advocates on behalf of their clients.  And so, you think about the profession, the personalities, and the task at hand, and you get the perfect storm of why well-being can sometimes be ignored, and I think a lot of us are focused on trying to bring a little bit of that focus back and ultimately create an environment in which people feel a genuine sense of professional satisfaction being a lawyer, which I think that, unfortunately, we're probably not as high on that standard as we need to be.  Rio Laine:  Right. Well, hopefully, we can get there, and I think this report is definitely helping to pave the way for that. So tell me a little bit about what inspired you and ALPS to conduct this research and this survey and to really dig into not just attorney wellness, but solo-specific wellness.  Chris Newbold:  Yeah. I think that we were really thinking internally. Obviously, ALPS itself has an interest in serving the solo community. That's one of the reasons that we exist. But I think more holistically, the notion of the solo practitioner, there's a lot of them out there. Right? 49% of private practitioners are solo practitioners. And when you look at the research in the well-being space, most of it is, there is really no definitive report, like ALPS just produced, that actually gets at this particular demographic.  Yes, there's issues on substance abuse and on stress and hardships and so forth, and kind of broader surveys that look at the totality of the profession, but with the solos being such a big part of the community, to not have any specific research on solos was a real void. ALPS wanted to step in and fill that void.  Rio Laine:  Yeah. Absolutely. And it makes sense. It absolutely makes sense. I think solos tend to be overlooked in a lot of different respects, which is, it's nice to see that we're spending the time to give them the resources and information they need to move forward.  Chris Newbold:  That's right.  Rio Laine:  So do you want to tell me a little bit about how our survey participants were selected for that?  Chris Newbold:  Yeah. The survey participants were ALPS policyholders. One of the great things about ALPS is we have a national geographic footprint. And so, our ability to know that we were able to enlist and invite a large group of solo practitioners into the survey itself ultimately ended up with approximately 300 respondents, which is certainly a scientifically solid sample size to be able to execute on a survey of this magnitude. And so, responses from around the country, primarily all being from the ALPS policyholder base.  Rio Laine:  Got it. So going into this survey, were there any kind of maybe trends or results that you

    41 min

  3. 03/27/2025

    A 5-Year Retrospective and What's Next for ALPS

    ALPS CEO David Bell discusses navigating the 2020 pandemic, embracing change, fostering a resilient company culture, and exciting future initiatives in an insightful conversation with Rio Laine. This is the first in our new quarterly thought leadership series, ALPS In Brief: The Deep Think.   — Transcript:  Rio Laine:  Hello and welcome. I'm Rio Laine, the Bar Partnership Strategist at ALPS Insurance. And today I have a chance to sit down with our CEO and fearless leader, David Bell, and we'll be talking about what's happening at ALPS, how the last year has gone, our vision moving forward, and also talk about how far we've come since the 2020 pandemic. Hello, David. Welcome.  David Bell:  Thank you, Rio, for having me on.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, thanks for joining me. It's always a pleasure to get a chance to sit down and talk with you.  David Bell:  For me too. I look forward to the conversation.  Rio Laine:  100%. Fabulous. So do you want to take a minute, David, to just tell the audience a bit about yourself, how you came to be at ALPS, a little bit about your background.  David Bell:  Sure. Well, I've been in the insurance industry my entire career since college. I joined Chubb Insurance and was with Chubb for a number of years. And then in the wake of 9/11, Chubb AIG and Goldman Sachs Capital Partners formed a joint venture, and I went with Chubb's Capital to help start at an organization called Allied World, AWAC. And so over the course of a decade living in Bermuda, we built that business up, ultimately took it public.  And then skipping a few chapters of this book, ultimately, my wife and I decided to come back to Montana where we first met three decades ago, where she is originally from and where we both went to college. And coming back to Montana, I had the opportunity to take the helm at ALPS. And it has been a true blessing for a dozen years to work alongside the men and women at ALPS and doing what we're going to talk about today.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And so you've been at the helm of ALPS for about 12 years now. And during that time it seems that you've steered the company through a lot of really exciting changes and transitions and also perhaps some uncertainty, probably most notably like the 2020 pandemic. I think we can all agree that was a very interesting time all around.  So I'd like to start with talking about the years since the pandemic and the last time we sat down with you, which was in 2020. Now, obviously ALPS is still here and thriving, but I'm curious to know what is something that you feel that you could point to that was the most important factor in helping us navigate that time and also what was something that helped our insureds navigate that time as well?  David Bell:  The pandemic time?  Rio Laine:  Yes.  David Bell:  Certainly just solidarity. I think as a country we came together, as a world, in a lot of cases, we came together. And at ALPS, that was particularly true. To be fair, ALPS has employees in a dozen states, but the nucleus of the organization is in the home office in Missoula, Montana. And Montana did not have a number of the challenges that the larger cities had, particularly with population density.  When you have a global pandemic and airborne transmittable viruses, not having the same type of population density did help us. But everybody at ALPS really rose to the occasion. Our technology was ready to allow people to be working remotely. We were also able to bring people back into the office much, much earlier than I think larger cities were able to do.  But most importantly, I think people rose to the occasion. They understood that they had the need to balance the challenges and the opportunities that they had confronted at home, and then also the responsibilities that we continued to have at the office. And I was so proud of everybody. It was week by week.  We were intensely communicative, always together, always talking about what our objectives were, people socializing what some of their challenges were, whether they were uniquely related to the pandemic or just in general. And I think we worked through those, and I think we taught ourselves a lot of valuable lessons during the time of the pandemic that have proven very useful in the months and years that have followed.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, absolutely. What is a lesson that comes to mind that you feel was maybe an important one for you as CEO of ALPS? Was there something that you learned that maybe you didn't expect to learn or that really helped you guide the company through?  David Bell:  Sure. Well, I think one of the most critical ingredients for any organization is for it to evolve and improve. And that requires change. And people, humans are just change resistant. It's in our nature. We love what we're familiar with. And what the pandemic did was it forced all of us into a period of change. And so as we were able to adjust to those changes and in many cases, adopt new technologies and processes, I think it opened people's minds to doing things differently.  And we were able to leverage that in the years that have followed the pandemic to constantly revisit the way we do things, to bring more and more efficiencies, to make the customer experience better, easier, faster, to make the experience of being an employee better and the experience of being an employer from a managerial and overall organizational perspective better as well.  And so the pandemic was incredibly difficult. But like most tragedies, most challenges, there are silver linings. And I think there were a number of silver linings for us coming out of the pandemic that have allowed ALPS to succeed even more than we would have frankly, had we not all endured that challenging time together.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, absolutely. And I think that time really inspired people to become very resilient and push themselves to do things and accept realities that maybe they couldn't have been able to before or were less willing to, particularly with adopting new technologies and things. So do you think that our ability to adjust and adopt that change supported our insureds through that time as well?  David Bell:  I do, yes. I think by committing ourselves to allowing our insureds to keep their policies and keep them timely and seamless, and also our insureds were having a lot of structural changes forced upon them from the pandemic. They were generally not working in the office. And so the exercise that they had historically gone through for years related to their malpractice and other insurance coverages was done in the office and through a certain process in the office.  That needed to be overnight and without warning changed to being done from home. Some of them relocated, some permanently, some of them went on the move and started to become a mobile lawyer. And so we needed to adopt our processes to accommodate all of the various iterations that our policyholders had to undertake. And I think by doing that, it also prepared us to just be more adaptable in general and things unrelated to COVID contingency plans.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I feel like that's a really good thing for us to carry forward is that adaptability.  David Bell:  Yes. And as you said, I think resiliency was a critical ingredient. I think a lot of us, and this is probably a general observation as well, the pandemic acquainted us with fear in ways that I think a lot of people had not really been acquainted with before. And it taught us a lot about ourselves, some great and some not so great, but we all learned from the experiences no matter which side of the ledger it rests.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that was a very shared collective experience, feeling that fear and uncertainty. And despite there being a lot of maybe tension at times, I think we all came through that having experienced something that, I mean, arguably changed us, but also made us stronger as a result.  David Bell:  And when a team endures a challenge together, whether that team is a company or a country or humanity, we do come out the other end of it with a better sense of resiliency and camaraderie. And so there's a lot of things to worry about in the future, but there's also a lot of things to celebrate and take comfort in.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I mean, I've been at ALPS now for about a year and a half, and I will say that the camaraderie and that kind of team element that I feel at the company, it's very obvious that everybody is really, I guess, happy to be working together and it has maybe come through a difficult thing and are stronger because of it. And so I feel like that really permeates and is very obvious too when I think about working at ALPS and also how our customers see our dynamic and how we approach things now.  David Bell:  Absolutely. I mean, in my role playing a part of the equation of trying to create and help foster a certain type of intentional company culture, making sure that people feel safe and heard is really the only path to give people that will allow them to unleash their own sense of creativity. If they don't feel valued and heard and they don't feel safe as though...  In some organizations, unfortunately, people are constantly not sharing their thoughts and their ideas for fear that they will be rejected or that it will put somebody off or whatever. I think one thing that we've really tried to do, and we're not perfect in this or anything else, but I think we have been largely successful is assuring people that as a company and that for the people around everyone else, we are for you and we want you to participate in helping make us better.  And you're heard. It doesn't mean that we adopt everybody's ideas. That's not realistic. But if people feel they've genuinely been heard and that t

    32 min

  4. 12/04/2024

    ALPS In Brief Podcast - Episode 90: Building Valuable Bar Partnerships ft. Angela Armstrong

    In this mini episode of ALPS In Brief, our Bar & Affinity Partner Strategist Rio Peterson sits down with Angela Armstrong, Executive Director at the Maine State Bar to discuss the importance of bar partnerships, how they create value for members, and the pivotal role bars play in the legal community. — Transcript:  Rio Lane:  Hello everybody. Welcome to this installment, a mini- installment, of the ALPS in Brief Podcast. I am your host, Rio Lane, and I am here today with Angela Armstrong, who is the Executive Director of the Maine State Bar. Hello.  Angela Armstrong:  Hello. Good afternoon.  Rio Lane:  Thank you for joining us.  Angela Armstrong:  Thank you.  Rio Lane:  I'm very happy we got this chance so we're going to sit down and chat and, yeah, I'm excited to learn more about the bar and the impact that partnerships have had on it. Why don't we start with you telling us a little bit about yourself, so what's your background, how did you end up at the bar?  Angela Armstrong:  So I am originally from Maine. I did all my schooling there, and then I went to college in New York, at the United States Military Academy, which then after that I owed five years in the Army. That's the minimum, that's what you owe for going there. And I did that but then near the end I had my first child and my husband was also military and we wanted someone around, that we weren't both getting deployed. So I got out of the military and I got to stay home with my daughter for a year and a half, but then I decided that I needed to go back to work.  Rio Lane:  Oh, weird, awesome.  Angela Armstrong:  Yeah, that's a familiar story. So I got a job at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke, in the chancellor's office, and I was his special assistant, which I could like it to being like kind of his chief of staff. I did that for about four years, and then my husband got out of the military and we moved back to Maine. He's not from Maine but we moved back to Maine to raise our girls. As I was looking for a job, there was an opening at the Maine State Bar Association for the Deputy Executive Director, and the reason I had heard about that was because my dad was an attorney in Maine and he heard about it in the Bar Journal. And so, I wrote to the executive director and said I'd really like to interview for this job. And shortly thereafter, I got the job as deputy. That was back in 2004, so I'm about to celebrate my 20th year this October with the Bar Association. I became the executive director in July, just celebrated my 11-year anniversary in July of 2013, I became the executive director.  Rio Lane:  Oh, awesome, congratulations.  Angela Armstrong:  Yeah, thanks.  Rio Lane:  So you're not a lawyer.  Angela Armstrong:  I am not a lawyer.  Rio Lane:  No, I love it. I love that when I meet executive directors who aren't lawyers by trade, I feel it brings a really unique perspective to the Bar Association. It's really interesting.  Angela Armstrong:  There's a lot of talk about whether you should be or shouldn't be. I think a lot of times you'll find with bar associations that are mandatory, a lot of them tend to be attorneys because of the types of things that happen in a mandatory bar. The Maine State Bar Association is a voluntary bar association, and so you're really running a business. You don't need a law degree to do that and, in fact, sometimes lawyers, they're great lawyers but they're not necessarily great business people. I have my Master's in business administration so it worked out. And I happened to do some reception work at my dad's law firm when I was in high school. I'm sure that helped me.  Rio Lane:  I bet it did. Yeah, that's awesome. Oh, yeah, interesting. Yeah, that is interesting and that's a really good point, it is like running a business, it is a business, yeah, especially for a voluntary bar.  Angela Armstrong:  Correct.  Rio Lane:  Yeah. So in addition to being voluntary, can you tell us a little bit more about the bar?  Angela Armstrong:  Sure. So our bar association that is voluntary is approximately 2,800 members. We've been staying steady around the 3,000 mark for several years now. This year we've seen a little bit of a decline. I think that all the different terms, silver tsunami, whatever you want to call it, aging of the bar ...  Rio Lane:  Silver tsunami?  Angela Armstrong:  Aging of the bar, has really ... I was having this discussion with Chris Neubold actually the other day and it's like we knew it was coming, we've been talking about it for years. But then, COVID kind of stretched things out because people couldn't retire, people are working longer generally. And so, I think we're finally really starting to see that. Plus, in Maine, we are a very old state. If we're not the oldest, we're right up there. And so, we have about 2,800 members. We are currently slotted for a staff of 10. I have seven on staff right now and one that's about to retire so I'm hiring for four positions. My staff is amazing and they work really hard, and they have for the last few years because we've had a lot of long-term employees, and that's really great, until they all start retiring.  Rio Lane:  Yes.  Angela Armstrong:  And then, you're stuck without having anybody and it's really hard to replace those positions. We are one of those states that has a lot of rural areas so we're part of that grouping of states that has issues getting attorneys into the legal desert ...  Rio Lane:  Legal desert, yeah.  Angela Armstrong:  The southern half of our state, basically Portland and south. And then, up the coast is pretty well off but anything north of where I'm from, and Augusta where I live, in the Augusta area, is a lot less. There's a concentration in the Bangor area but majority of our members, at least half, are in the southern half of the state.  Rio Lane:  Wow, got it. Is that one of the biggest challenges you think that the bar is going to have to navigate coming up, is that?  Angela Armstrong:  I think two of our biggest are the amount of retiring attorneys we're going to be having over the next several years, and the rural attorneys because our lawyer referral program is struggling because we can't provide referrals to people in those areas. Now, think times have changed because we can do a lot more through Zoom and through other types of media, but sometimes you just want to be looking at your attorney in the face and talking to them. As I said, we're older.  One of the things that might help us is we're getting a lot of folks that are coming into Maine that are already attorneys, so that may help us fill that gap a little bit, but we're not getting the younger folks staying, and if they are staying, they're still in the southern part of the state. I think those are going to be two really big issues. The other huge issue that Maine is dealing with generally is the indigent defense.  Rio Lane:  Oh, yes.  Angela Armstrong:  It's mandated but we do not have the attorneys to do the work. Several years ago, we, whoever, the royal we, were telling people don't go to law school, we have too many lawyers, there's just too many of you. And you get this debt, and now we're paying for it because we do not have ... There's plenty of work, we just don't have the attorneys.  Rio Lane:  Don't have attorneys, yeah. That's interesting. Do you think there's any type of solution or anything that would help encourage young folks to go to law school? I know Project Rural Practice offers debt forgiveness in exchange. Is that something that you think would work or could be?  Angela Armstrong:  Well, I think, like a lot of states, we're not a very rich state so to speak. We have a lot of people that have homes in Maine but don't live in Maine, and the people that do live in Maine don't have a lot of money. When you live in Maine, you know that you're not going to make as much as somebody in another state doing the same job.  Rio Lane:  Got it, yeah.  Angela Armstrong:  That being said, our legislature doesn't have a lot of money to play with you, and so we have a couple of tax incentives, but it's not for a lot of money if they go into a rural area, and it's not loan forgiveness or anything like that. We just don't have the programs in place in the legislature for that as of right now. I mean, we're struggling enough to deal with the indigent defense issue so I don't foresee that happening anytime soon. And then, as I think with a lot of folks that have these rural counties, even if you can get the attorney to go there, the spouse or the significant other doesn't want to go there because aren't jobs for them. Or if it's a single, they don't have the nightlife, they don't have the chance to meet other people their age or do things. And so, most of the time we see people that were already living in those areas go to school and then come back.  Rio Lane:  Okay, yeah.  Angela Armstrong:  But that's not enough.  Rio Lane:  Yeah. Yeah, so absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, definitely a pretty widely spread issue, which is, yeah.  Angela Armstrong:  More and more states are facing it, I think.  Rio Lane:  Hopefully, someone will come up with a creative cost-effective way to help because ...  Angela Armstrong:  And the law school debt, it's hard, you got to go somewhere where you can make money.  Rio Lane:  It's incredible. Yeah, it kind of blows my mind. I mean, even law school in Canada where I live, it's considered expensive but it's nothing like America, it's a staggering amount of debt that people get saddled with.  Angela Armstrong:  We only have one law school in Maine.  Rio Lane:  Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Let's shift focus a little bit.  Angela Armstrong:  Okay, I know, it's too much of a downer.  Rio Lane:  As much as I would like to keep talking about it

    20 min

  5. 12/03/2024

    Episode 89: Bar Partnerships: A Conversation with Mary Jane Pickens

    In this mini episode of ALPS In Brief, our Bar & Affinity Partner Strategist Rio Peterson sits down with Mary Jane Pickens, Executive Director at the West Virginia State Bar to discuss the importance of bar partnerships, how they create value for members, and the pivotal role bars play in the legal community. — Transcript:  Rio Lane:  All right. Hello everybody. We are back for another mini-installment of the ALPS in Brief podcast. I am your host, Rio Lane, and I am talking today with Mary Jane Pickens, who's the executive director of the West Virginia Bar. Hi.  Mary Jane Pickens:  Hey, how are you?  Rio Lane:  I'm good. How are you doing?  Mary Jane Pickens:  Wonderful. Very, very happy to be back in Montana. It's a beautiful, beautiful place.  Rio Lane:  Wonderful. Yes. Thank you for joining us. I'm happy you're here too. I love Missoula. It's such a lovely city.  Mary Jane Pickens:  It is. It's fun. We went out and just took a quick walk this morning, and it's a wonderful little place. Lots of good stuff here.  Rio Lane:  It is. It absolutely is. Yeah. So tell me a little bit about yourself, Mary Jane. What's your background, and how did you come to the Bar Association?  Mary Jane Pickens:  Well, I've done a lot of different things. When I first became an executive director, I went to one of the ABA annual meetings, and they had us a boot camp for brand new executive directors, and you had to pick out a song. It was an icebreaker thing, and they would play your song and you were supposed to jump up and say, "That's my song." And my song was Long and Winding Road by the Beatles.  Rio Lane:  Oh, nice.  Mary Jane Pickens:  Because I felt like I had had a rather long and winding road to get to the bar. I graduated from law school. I went to Ohio Northern University, so I did not go to law school in West Virginia. Came back to West Virginia because it's my home, and went into private practice in a small firm, kind of a little boutiquey... We mostly did bankruptcy work. And did that for about 15 years and decided I needed a change and had an opportunity to go to the Insurance Commissioner's office in the state of West Virginia. And shortly thereafter, became general counsel for the West Virginia Insurance Commissioner. And I was there for about 11 or 12 years. And then I went to a large firm, did mostly government relations and lobbying mostly around the insurance industry.  Rio Lane:  Yeah.  Mary Jane Pickens:  Did that for about three years. And then because I love public service, it's where my heart is, I had a chance to go back to the state and be the executive director of the West Virginia Board of Risk and Insurance Management, which provides all of the property and liability insurance for the state of West Virginia, and also simultaneously be the Deputy Cabinet Secretary for the Department of Administration, which provides all the back office-y stuff and services for the rest of government.  Rio Lane:  Oh, wow.  Mary Jane Pickens:  And I was able to be acting cabinet secretary during 2016 during Governor Earl Ray Tomblin's last year, and then had a chance to go to the state bar, and that's where I am now. So it's kind of a long and winding road.  Rio Lane:  Yeah, yeah. That's really interesting. And you've been at the bar for two years?  Mary Jane Pickens:  Yes. I hit my two-year official mark on July 1.  Rio Lane:  Oh, congratulations. Congratulations.  Mary Jane Pickens:  Thank you.  Rio Lane:  Yeah. How are you liking it? Do you find it's a lot different than what you were doing before?  Mary Jane Pickens:  It is a lot different. It's still considered a state agency, but it's in the judicial branch. I've always been in the executive branch, so there's a lot of differences there. But it still is that public service feeling like you have constituents, you have customers, and you're there to help folks. And so that's what I love about it.  Rio Lane:  Yeah, that's fantastic. How do you find working with a board? Because I know you've got a board of folks that helps guide things. Yeah. Do you find that to be helpful, or do you find it's different than...  Mary Jane Pickens:  Well, we had a board at the Board of Risk and Insurance Management, but they were very different. They were rather hands-off.  Rio Lane:  Oh, okay.  Mary Jane Pickens:  So this board is a lot more engaged, which I think is a good thing.  Rio Lane:  Yeah.  Mary Jane Pickens:  We only have four quarterly meetings, but we have very, very involved officers and a very evolved executive committee. So I like it a lot. I think it's... We run the office and we do the day-to-day, but the president of the state bar speaks for the bar. So there's a little bit of separation that I enjoy, and so I feel like I have a lot of really good guidance and support and feedback from the board. I enjoyed it a lot.  Rio Lane:  That's fantastic. You find the board helpful in identifying things that the bar needs to be focusing on like new challenges that might be coming up, things that need to be anticipated?  Mary Jane Pickens:  Yeah, I do. We're on the ground, kind of on the front lines with our members, so we hear a lot and get a lot of those ideas. But our board is elected from 16 different districts all over the state.  Rio Lane:  Got it.  Mary Jane Pickens:  So they come together, and so they're bringing ideas and concerns from the lawyers in their areas because West Virginia is an oddly-shaped state. It can be... When you go to the eastern panhandle, you're almost in Washington DC, and then at Ohio and Kentucky on the other side. So the interests and concerns can be different in those different parts. So the board, I think, is very good at gathering that intel and bringing it back to Charleston and helping out with what we do in the office.  Rio Lane:  Yeah. Oh, that's fantastic. It sounds like a good working relationship.  Mary Jane Pickens:  It is. It's very good. We have a really good board.  Rio Lane:  Yeah. Oh, that's fantastic. So what are some of the things that maybe your members or the board has brought to your attention that are challenges that you find you're having to navigate this year and the next couple years?  Mary Jane Pickens:  Sure. We here... And I don't think this is uncommon among states. We have a lot of rural areas. We have basically a few... What we consider by West Virginia standards to be decent-sized cities. But there are a whole lot of areas that are what we would consider to be legal deserts. And I think a lot of states have the same issue. So the issues around the rural practitioner, the solo practitioner that's just out in a county where there's not that many people, we need to provide more support to those folks.  And we have put together a rural practice committee, and we're trying to address some of those things, ideally in conjunction with the law school, because the law school at West Virginia University is there to produce lawyers for the state of West Virginia, and elsewhere, but we love it when they stay. And so we're hoping to come up with some ideas to support those lawyers more that are out there actually helping the people. Another big issue, and this is huge right now in West Virginia, and I don't know how this is in other states, but we have a desperate need for lawyers to do guardian ad litem work and abuse and neglect proceedings.  Rio Lane:  Okay.  Mary Jane Pickens:  And a lot of this does come out of unfortunate circumstances around drug use and abuse and families that are really struggling. And we have a lot of children in foster care. And last year... We do regional meetings. We go all around the state in the fall, and we had judges come to all of those regional meetings and speak on pretty much whatever they wanted to talk about. Every single one of them made a desperate plea to the lawyers in the audience to consider taking on guardian ad litem work or doing abuse and neglect legal services because it's such a big need.  Rio Lane:  Oh, wow. And is that something that is funded by the state, those services? Or is it...  Mary Jane Pickens:  It can be through the Public Defender Services Agency, which is an agency I'm very familiar with because it's part of the Department of Administration. So yes, there are public defender corporations around the state that they kind of have some interaction with. And also they just handle appointed work in the public defender system. So they're involved in a lot of that, but it's not enough to meet the need. And you get into these rural counties, and a lot of times the lawyers that are in those counties are the judge, the prosecutor, and the public defender. They're the ones that are there, and you need some others out there. So it all kind of comes together. The challenges kind of overlap.  Rio Lane:  Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And do you find that you having a membership that's aging out as well? Is that also something that you're navigating?  Mary Jane Pickens:  A little bit. We're an old state. I mean, generally speaking. Virginia's rather old, and I don't know that it's really getting any younger. So that is a concern. One of the things that... We're planning our annual meeting for 2025, and one of our speakers that we've lined up is going to talk about generational differences and the fact that law firms and lawyers who are more seasoned need to be a little bit more open-minded about younger lawyers and what their expectations are and how to meet their needs and keep them in the state of West Virginia.  Rio Lane:  Yeah. Do you find that something that the bar is having to navigate too, is new members, younger lawyers coming in and navigating their expectations and how they want to engage with the bar?  Mary Jane Pickens:  I think so, and that's something that I would like to be able to spend

    19 min

  6. 12/03/2024

    Episode 88: The Value and Community in Bar Partnerships, ft. Bob Paolini of VT

    In this mini episode of ALPS In Brief, our Bar & Affinity Partner Strategist Rio Peterson sits down with Bob Paolini, Executive Director at the Vermont Bar Association to discuss the importance of bar partnerships, how they create value for members, and the pivotal role bars play in the legal community. — Transcript: Rio Laine:  All right. Hello, everybody. This is Rio Laine here, coming to you from ALPS for this installment of kind of a mini In Brief episode that we are doing. And so I am here today with Bob Paolini from the Vermont Bar Association. Hello, Bob. Thanks for joining us.  Bob Paolini:  Good morning, Rio. Thanks for having me.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, it's great to have you here. So you are the executive director of the Vermont Bar Association?  Bob Paolini:  I am,  Rio Laine:  Yeah. Want to tell me a little bit about your background and how you ended up at the bar?  Bob Paolini:  Sure. Well, I'm a lawyer. I practiced in Vermont. I was admitted to the bar in 1973.  Rio Laine:  Wow. Yeah.  Bob Paolini:  I became executive director of the bar in February of 1996.  Rio Laine:  Wow. Yeah.  Bob Paolini:  So I've been in practice for 22 years. During that time, I served in the Vermont House of Representatives for a couple of terms, and then left that position, just went back to practice. And then I saw that this position of ED of the Vermont Bar opened up, and one of the pieces of the qualifications that they were looking for was policymaking work, and I really enjoyed the legislative process when I was a member of the House. It's a part-time legislature. It's really hard to integrate that service with the practice of law at the same time. So I ended up not running for reelection after a couple of terms.  When this position opened up and there was the opportunity to go back into the legislature representing the profession, I applied and I was hired, and I served in that job for 20 years. I left in the spring ... I think it was June of 2016. My successor, who I think you know, Teri Corsones, became executive director. At the beginning she didn't have any legislative experience and I worked part-time with the bar, doing some of that work during our session and helping her get acclimated to that kind of work. And then I stopped doing that.  And then six years later, she left to become Vermont State Court Administrator, so I was asked to come back on an interim basis two years ago this month actually. And after about five months in that position, the board asked me to stay on, which I was happy to do. So, 20 years, six years away, now two years back. That's how I got here.  Rio Laine:  Yeah. Well, that's fantastic. So 22 years kind of in total. Yeah. You obviously really enjoy the bar and working with the bar. What's something that you really like about your work and the Bar Association in general?  Bob Paolini:  We are a small bar, as you know. Maybe we have about 2,300 members of our association. Even though I've had a six-year break, I still know most of those people. Sure, there are a lot of new young lawyers, a lot of lawyers who have moved into Vermont that I don't know, but it's a small group. It's a close-knit group. The staff of six people, half of whom I've hired, half I did not hire, are great. I love working with them. And I really like our board of managers, who really has the welfare of our members at heart. They're really looking to help members improve their practices, improve their lives, and it's just great to work for them and try to represent them.  One of the questions that I was asked in my first interview going back to 1996 was, "Taking this administrative job is going to be so different than practicing law. How do you feel about that?" And I said, "It's not all that different. I mean, yeah, I've got clients now, but now I will have just one client, and that's our profession." And that's worked out for me, and I think for them too.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, that's a really interesting way to think about it, too. I was wondering about the board, and would you say that it's really important to have a board that is invested in the welfare of your members? Would you say that that is a requirement to running things well?  Bob Paolini:  That's a requirement, yes. Yeah, it is. We need the direction. In our case, we have 17 voices, all of whom are in different types of practice. One of whom is a judge, by the way, because we always have a judge on the board, but they all have different perspectives on what the legal profession is about today.  We meet 11 times a year, and I try to get up to date on, "What are you folks seeing? What should we be addressing? What challenges are new?" So as long as we're all dedicated to helping our members and helping protect the profession, as well as helping to protect the public, I think we're doing the right thing.  Rio Laine:  Yeah. What kinds of things are you hearing from the board or even members about challenges that are coming up that they're having to navigate?  Bob Paolini:  Well, clearly in this current climate, the rule of law is a challenge that we all have to address I think. Respect for the law, respect for the court system is something that I think every state bar needs to address.  In Vermont's case, as I said, we're a small bar, but we are a graying bar. Vermont's surrounded by cities like Boston and New York, not literally surrounded, but we're close to those cities, Hartford, Connecticut, Boston, New York City, places where there are greater opportunities for newly minted lawyers. Asking them to come to Vermont, especially if they have a bunch of education debt, is difficult. So the number of new lawyers we have is diminishing. As the bar ages, we lose to retirement every year a handful or more than a handful of lawyers.  So the shrinking bar is a real challenge I think for us. Actually this morning I engaged in a conversation with our board about the small number of lawyers who were applying for an open judgeship in Vermont, and everybody's concerned about that. There's an email chain going back and forth for the last two hours about what are we going to do about this? How do we get qualified people to be judges? So here's another topic for our board meeting next Friday.  Rio Laine:  Right, absolutely. And it seems that the graying bar situation, I mean, it's something that a lot of the bars are dealing with now. There certainly seems to be a larger number of lawyers transitioning out of practice, retiring, than there is coming in to the profession, absolutely.  Bob Paolini:  Yeah. I don't think Vermont's unique in that respect at all. There's technology challenges, where things went to online filing and different things. That drove some of the older members into retirement. I remember when that started and I would get phone calls or emails from our members saying, "I can't learn this whole new system now. I'm done. December 31st I'm retiring."  So yeah, there's that, there's the pandemic, and how many people that drove out of the profession.  Rio Laine:  Oh, 100%. Because I mean, never mind even the technology adoption required for the pandemic, but also just navigating the entire situation. It's a lot. And if you've been practicing for a long time, it's just easier probably to call it in.  Bob Paolini:  I know. As opposed to relearn everything and start over.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Would you say that that's similar to the difficulty getting lawyers to practice in rural areas as well, along the same lines, it's just difficult finding people to fill those gaps?  Bob Paolini:  We are definitely seeing that in some of our more remote places in our state. Our state's not big, but there are counties that are not big, but they only have one or two lawyers. And we know and we try to say to new lawyers, "Look, if you want to make the sacrifice and go there, you're going to be it. You're going to be that town's lawyer." It's sort of like thinking back 50 years or more, the local town lawyer, there are towns that that local town lawyer has passed away or has retired, and there's nobody there to take over.  So yeah, we're trying to match those new lawyers with the senior lawyers, I have them spend some time together, and then one retires and one takes over that. But it's a challenge, again, because of college and law school debt, and the fact that salaries are not that high in those rural communities.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, yeah. Fair enough. And for the new members that you do have coming in, are you finding that they're looking for more from the bar than maybe the members that are aging out, they're looking for different types of engagement? Are you finding you're having to adapt or navigate that?  Bob Paolini:  They are definitely looking for something different. And I have to give credit to our Young Lawyers Division because they're great about reaching out, not only to newly minted lawyers, but to law students. And we have one law school in the state, so working with that law school and trying to integrate those folks into the bar.  Yes, their needs now are very different than what I experienced when I started. There was that whole process back then. There's one judge, now retired, who used to say that when he started his first year was carrying the briefcase for his partner. Going to court, just sitting there, but doing that for a year or whatever. That doesn't happen anymore. People don't have the resources to do that like they used to. So there's part of that education, that apprenticeship thing if you want, that's now missing.  Rio Laine:  Got it. Got it. That kind of mentorship piece. Yeah. And I've heard that that is a challenge for young lawyers, and I mean, you're getting into this new profession, it really helps to have some guidance and having to go without makes things much more difficult than they need to be

    19 min

  7. 11/05/2024

    Episode 87 - ft Jeff Brandt: If Video Killed the Radio Star, Will AI Kill the Studio Star?

    In this episode of ALPS In Brief, our Risk Manager Mark Bassingthwaighte sits down with University of Montana Professor Jeff Brandt to talk about synthesizers, AI, and his class on the history of rock and roll. — Transcript:  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Hello, I'm Mark Bassingthwaighte, the Risk Manager here at ALPS, and welcome to ALPS In Brief, the podcast that comes to you from the historic Florence building in beautiful Downtown Missoula, Montana. As many of you know, I have been in Florida now for a number of years, but I'm back at the home office here, and we have a special event every two years where we bring in a lot of our bar associates from various bar associations around the country. Then we have some special speakers that come in and talk about all kinds of things.  I have just finished attending a presentation given by Jeff Brandt, who is a professor here at the university and does a course on the history of music. I got to say, in all honesty, folks, I wish you could all have been here. This was one of the most fun, creative presentations I've seen in a long, long time. Jeff, it's a pleasure to have you here. Before we get started, can I ask you to take just a little bit of time and tell us about who you are?  Jeff Brandt:  Okay, so I was born in Sitka, Alaska, which is a tiny, well, it's a big island actually, but a tiny town on a big island in Southeast Alaska. Average rainfall there is about 96 inches per year, so it's a Pacific Coast rainforest.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Right.  Jeff Brandt:  I went to college in Tacoma, Washington at Pacific Lutheran University. Taught private percussion lessons after that for about 20 years. Somewhere in the middle or somewhere in there, I got my graduate teaching degree. Then we ended up in Missoula, Montana as a result. Then by happenstance, the History of Rock & Roll as a course fell into my lap.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  That was an established course before you got here?  Jeff Brandt:  It was.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Okay.  Jeff Brandt:  Yeah. There were a lot of people that have taught it prior to me, but when I was given the opportunity to run with it, it was one of the first online courses developed at the University of Montana, and that's really when I dug in because I knew that teaching it in an online setting, I was going to have to be more aware of the points I was trying to get across and how they were delivered. I dug deeper and deeper into the historical aspect of the course, and then I just started creating these different slide programs. Now I'm on my third set of slides and I think it's my final because they're so good now I don't want to mess with them, but that's my brief history.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  I didn't realize this is online. Could anybody get online and just take this course?  Jeff Brandt:  Anybody can take it online. I'll give my spiel about online education, to be honest here, is I think online education is good if you have time to do it. I think in-person education, generally speaking, is better.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  I would agree with you.  Jeff Brandt:  There are so many different resources now for people to learn. Just with YouTube alone, you can go down an endless pit of stuff on one member of one obscure band, it seems.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Yeah.  Jeff Brandt:  Yeah. Mine is one of the many resources out there.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  You're welcome to share. Folks, I'm telling you, if you have any interest at all in the history of rock and roll and want to have some awesome fun, this is a course I would encourage you to take and see. I didn't realize. How might folks find this?  Jeff Brandt:  Well, you go to the University of Montana. I believe you have to register as a student.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Okay.  Jeff Brandt:  You think that I would know all the hoops you have you have to jump through.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  No, that's fine.  Jeff Brandt:  You have to jump through several hoops and then you can take online classes. I do encourage people who are not working 40 hours a week and who are interested in really digging in, to take it in-person because there's so much more interaction with the way the clips are played and the way the slides are presented. Get on the University of Montana website and search it, and you can join the online course or the face-to-face.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  You clearly have a passion. It just seems like listening to you, you're having just a ton of fun too, and I love that. Folks, I can also share this course is I think the number one or the number two top.  Jeff Brandt:  It's one or two or three. It depends on the year.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Yeah. Why do you do this?  Jeff Brandt:  Well, honestly, the first time it fell in my lap. I was just kind of given the opportunity to sub for somebody and subbing for somebody in a college course is, it's a lot to take on because you jump into it usually with all of their materials because that's usually the unwritten rule is, "I'll let you use my stuff." I mean, back then, I mean, it makes me sound like a dinosaur, but the person that gave me the stuff had overheads, and so I was using overhead.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Wow. Yeah.  Jeff Brandt:  Maybe it was a year later that I was using slides, but they gave me their overheads. I jump in, I'm starting to do this, and honestly, I was scared because I guess when you're, I can speak as a male when you're 23, 24, 25, you think you know a lot of stuff. I just cracked open the first of two textbooks that this prof was using, and I was like, "Oh, boy, do I know nothing and I'm teaching it in three weeks."  Then fast-forward, I end up digging in reading resources, listening to a lot of albums. I'll be honest with you, I hadn't really dug into the Beatles that much prior because there were so many other acts that I was interested in. Then I started listening to their catalog and the Rolling Stones, and again, that's a tiny scratch on the surface that doesn't include the other British bands like The Animals and The Who and Led Zeppelin and then John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers and all these other in-depth things you can go in. That's just the British blues scene.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Right.  Jeff Brandt:  What I realized was in order to make this work and why I continued to want to do it, is what I would need to do is have what I would call kind of a surfacey understanding of about 300 to 400 acts in the entertainment business. Gradually bit by bit, the department would buy my recordings. I would go and dig in and listen to everything from Blind Lemon Jefferson to the Spice Girls. I would just year-by-year chip away. When you get into a subject like counted cross-stitch or skiing or building doors, you get better at it and you realize ways to enjoy it more.  I got to a point where I created my final, what I call my final set of slides, and I really, really carefully planned out the layout of the slides, how the format of the class was going to move and how I was going to justify only featuring certain artists as opposed to leaving out bands, like the one I always pick on is AC/DC because they're not really a part of the course. That's why I do it and why I like to do it, because it's like anything else where you get into it, then you kind of become addicted once you have a little taste.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Yeah, yeah, I get that. Year after year, how do I want to say this? Let me do it this way. What do you hope students get out of your class?  Jeff Brandt:  Well, there are these objectives that we write in the syllabus that you're supposed to abide by, et cetera, et cetera, and I do, but what I really want people to get out of the course is I want them to understand a general approach, or I guess have a general understanding of the social history that rock and roll highlights in America. That's one thing.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Okay.  Jeff Brandt:  I want them to understand that rock and roll is not white, it's not Elvis Presley, it's not AC/DC, it's not, even though I love them, it's not Metallica. It is something that came about quite by accident and through a lot of pain. That part is kind of an inconvenient truth that some students don't like. I have to warn people in the beginning, "I'm not going to sugar coat this, I'm going to bring it directly to you. Some of the things are inconvenient truths that you may not have faced prior. Depending on how invested you are in learning as a person, it may buck your understanding of how this thing has worked."  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Yeah.  Jeff Brandt:  Just for example, the inconvenient truth, like I was mentioning today that Elvis Presley is a cover artist. Bill Haley is a cover artist.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Mm-hmm.  Jeff Brandt:  They're not original rock and roll artists.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Right.  Jeff Brandt:  The original rock and roll artists are people like Chuck Berry and Little Richard and Bo Diddley and all of the artists on Chess Records. Those are the original rock and roll artists, but because of the unfortunate existence of so much racism in our country, a lot of those people were shoved aside because it was easier to market people with light skin.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  So interesting.  Jeff Brandt:  That's another thing I wanted to go with and maybe if I'm going to highlight a third thing I want them to go away with, is an understanding that you can listen to more than one subgenre within rock and roll. You get people that are "metalheads" and people that are into techno pop or house or people that seventies rock, or here's another category I have, people that love the sixties. They have blinders on. If it's between '64 and '69, it's in, and if it's '70 and on, it's out. The understanding that if you listen to pick your artist,

    35 min

  8. 09/11/2024

    ALPS In Brief Podcast - Episode 86: The Troubled Teen Industry through the Eyes of an Attorney Who Tried to Make a Difference

    In this episode of ALPS In Brief, our Risk Manager Mark Bassingthwaighte sits down with Attorney Ann Moderie to talk about a suicide that should have never happened. — Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Hello, I'm Mark Bassingthwaighte. Welcome to ALPS in Brief, the podcast that comes to you from the Historic Florence Building in beautiful downtown Missoula, Montana. And it's a smoky day out there today, but it's good to be back in the office in terms of the home office for a little while.  And I have a guest that is... I'm very excited to share... have her share her story with you, but it's just you want to talk about a compelling, just difficult, I don't even know how to say it. I mean, I'm still swallowing what I've just heard in terms of a detailed presentation on what she's doing. So my guest is Ann Moderie... Modera.   Ann Moderie:  Moderie.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Moderie. I'm so sorry, Ann.   Ann Moderie:  It's okay.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Bassingthwaighte gets mixed up. Yes. So, but Ann, can you... before we jump into your story, can you just share a little bit about yourself and what you do?   Ann Moderie:  Sure. And thank you for having me, Mark. I am a Montana attorney. I have been practicing for about 25 years. I have practiced out of Polson, Montana, which is on Flathead Lake for that entire time.  I practiced with my father for 14 years, and when he became district court judge, I went out on my own, and I've been out on my own since that time. I have handled primarily civil cases, mostly litigation, over the years. I recently have inherited a lawyer's practice who passed away who did a lot of estate planning and probate.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Wow. Okay.   Ann Moderie:  So I'm transitioning a little bit in the last couple of years, not as much litigation, but always on the plaintiff's side. I have tried to dedicate myself to helping victims, whether it's an unfortunate accident or intentional conduct, but I think there's a real need for attorneys that are willing to get in the fight.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Yes. And you have fought an incredible battle. I just finished hearing a presentation that Ann gave that really focused on a first case.   Ann Moderie:  Yeah.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  And it's not your first, or is this your...   Ann Moderie:  Oh gosh, no.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Yeah.   Ann Moderie:  I've been practicing since 1999.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Right.   Ann Moderie:  And this case came into our firm in 2005.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  But it's the first case of an interesting story. So, Ann, I just invite you, have at it, share what happened and what this is all about.   Ann Moderie:  Well, and I will tell the story, but I think it's important to point out that I was one attorney in a team that tackled-  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Yes.   Ann Moderie:  ... this issue and these type of cases. So I don't mean to stand out as anyone that handled them by myself. But how I first became introduced to the troubled teen industry, and these are specialty boarding schools for, quote, troubled teens, and sometimes they're called tough love schools. They're a type of school that has its own behavior modification model that is kind of almost like a military-type setting. It's very rigid, very strict. And I didn't even know these schools existed.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  I didn't either until today.   Ann Moderie:  Yeah.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  I mean, this is...   Ann Moderie:  It's under the radar.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Yeah.   Ann Moderie:  But back in 2005, a case came into our office related to the suicide of a 16-year-old girl at one of these specialty boarding schools. And the school was located in Thompson Falls, Montana, which is in Sanders County, which is a nearby county.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Yes.   Ann Moderie:  These... I had no idea this was in our backyard. But the school was a boarding school, mostly for out-of-state students. They are placed there because they are struggling at home, whether it's drugs, alcohol, running away, getting in trouble. Parents would send them to this school as kind of an answer really to the struggles they're having or their concern about their children's safety. And these schools represent to the parents that they are the answer that they are going to change your kids' lives. They're going to turn them around.  And the mother contacted us because her daughter committed suicide at this school called Spring Creek Lodge. And we didn't morally... Suicide cases are difficult, so we really wanted to get the records and study them before we agreed to take it. The mother had access to all of her school records. So the mother got them, presented them to us, and we were mortified with what we saw. The notice that the staff had of this young woman hurting herself was unbelievable. We found 152 instances over six months-  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  That is just crazy.   Ann Moderie:  ... where there was clear intent to kill herself-  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Right.   Ann Moderie:  ... including statements that, "I want to die." She was cutting. She was crying. She was begging for help. She was acting out physically to staff. She tried running away. She tried hanging herself from her bunk. This was a girl who was struggling, and we felt comfortable with the records that we had that we should pursue this. And these people that ran this should be held accountable.  And it's important to understand this girl's history. She was adopted at birth. Her adopted dad died when she was just a toddler. And then it was just her and her mom against the world. They were close. They had a great... They were very connected with their lives. The mother ran a furniture store. She had her desk, and then she had a little tiny desk next to her where her daughter-  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Oh, my gosh. Yeah.   Ann Moderie:  ... would work with her. It's pretty neat story actually because they had each other and that's about it. And when this girl got into her teenage years, she started acting out. She started sneaking out. She wasn't involved in hard drugs, but she started experimenting with substances. The mother was very scared.  She didn't know how to rein her in. She didn't want her to rebel more. She was scared where this could go. And I think you have to step back and look at the people who send their kids there. These schools cost anywhere from 3,500 a month to 5,000 a month. So they are parents who can afford-  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Right. Yes.   Ann Moderie:  ... this kind of care for their children. And if you look at that type of family, boarding schools are not considered a bad thing. I mean, they're very actually elite.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Yes.   Ann Moderie:  If you can afford to send your child to a boarding school, my goodness, that is a wonderful opportunity.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Right.   Ann Moderie:  So sending a girl to a boarding school, while some, it rubs them the wrong way, in other ways, it's not unusual for this family from their world.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Right.   Ann Moderie:  So she goes to... Oh, and one more thing about Karlye is she had a learning disability. It was diagnosed. She attended a school specifically designed for people with learning issues, but she was doing real good in school. That wasn't actually a problem in the program that she was in.  The mother went to an educational consultant with her concerns. What should she do? And it was encouraged or advised that she send her to a specialty boarding school where she could be monitored, kept safe while still addressing her learning disability. And she was referred to a New Mexico boarding school. The mother looked into it. She talked to everyone. It seemed to be a good fit.  They had a special education program. She sent her there. And within a short period, this girl ran away and took pills. And the school said, "We are not designed for the care for someone with these concerns or issues." And they sent her home. I mean, the school did the right thing.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Right, exactly.   Ann Moderie:  "We're not designed." So she goes home, and the mother's frantic at this point. She doesn't know if she's going to hurt herself if she's going to sneak out and get hurt. She goes back to an educational consultant, and they refer her to what is called Teen Help. It's represented to be a nonprofit referral resource for parents whose children are exhibiting certain types of behavior.  And Teen Help has telemarketers really, when you call in that have a script. We got the scripts that have... They say certain things to pique the parents' fear. "It sounds like you're... you need immediate help. The child, the longer you let it go, the further they're going to go away." One script we found partway through the script, it says to the telemarketer, "MAXIMIZE PROBLEMS" in all caps. They are designed, this company is designed to prey on the fears of parents.  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  Exactly. Yes. Yeah.   Ann Moderie:  So she listens-  Mark Bassingthwaighte:  It's social engineering is what I'm hearing.   Ann Moderie:  Oh, yeah. It's very smart, actually. And they give her all these statistics. "Within 24 hours, this many children will commit... will try to commit suicide." I mean, they're just talking to exactly what she's fearful of. And they say, "We're a non-profit. We don't get anything by these referrals. We don't have any connection to these schools.  But we think we have found just the school for your daughter. It's Spring Creek Lodge in Montana, and here are the pictures." It's a beautiful mountain setting. Well-maintained lodges. It looks gorgeous. They have pictures of kids boating and hiking, horseback riding. They show kids at computers. They r

    30 min
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A podcast for lawyers by lawyers brought to you by ALPS insurance. ALPS In Brief Podcast Intro/Outro Music: Walk In The Park by Audionautix is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Artist: http://audionautix.com/

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  • Creator
    ALPS Lawyer’s Malpractice Insurance
  • Years Active
    2020 - 2025
  • Episodes
    93
  • Rating
    Clean
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    © Copyright 2017 . All rights reserved.
  • Show Website
    The ALPS In Brief Podcast