The BTR.ORG Podcast - Betrayal Trauma Recovery Anne Blythe

When your narcissistic husband devalues you and you find yourself asking, "My husband says he's not attracted to me anymore - why?" it's time to surround yourself with support, learn more about narcissistic abuse, and seek safety.



Dr. Natalie Jones from A Date With Darkness Podcast is diving into this topic with Anne on the BTR.ORG Podcast - tune in and read the full transcript below for more.

It's NOT About You - It NEVER Was

Many victims, understandably, take this form of abuse very personally, and may seek to change themselves to meet the abuser's ever-changing standards of beauty.



This is particularly painful for BIPOC women, whose abusers attack not only temporary characteristics, like weight, but permanent characteristics, like race and culture. 



But the truth is that it's not about your skin color, size, hair color, or facial features - the abuser is simply trying to control you.

Abusers Use Criticism to Control Victims

The abuser criticizes your physical features to control you. As long as you feel inadequate and permanently "less than", he can maintain the illusion of "power over" you.



Why? Because when abusers condition victims to believe that they're "too much" or "not enough", victims focus on becoming "right" for the abuser, rather than on seeking safety from the abuser's behaviors.

How Do I Heal From This Form of Abuse?

The devastating pain that comes from this form of narcissistic abuse can feel impossible to heal from at times - the words and smirks, put-downs, and jeers can sear themselves into the memories of victims.



However, healing IS possible - but not until safety is achieved.



Narcissistic abusers are particularly skilled at making their opinions seem like facts - and that "everyone else" feels the same way that they do - when victims seek safety from the abuser, they often begin to realize that the abuser is a liar - that reality is actually the complete opposite of what the abuser claimed it to be.





BTR.ORG Is Here For You

At BTR.ORG we know that healing can feel like a far-off dream - but we are here for you as you begin your journey to healing. Attend a live, daily BTR.ORG Group Session as you begin your journey to healing.

Full Transcript:

Anne (00:00):

Welcome to BTR.ORG. This is Anne. On today's, I have Dr. Natalie Jones. She is a licensed psychotherapist. She's the creator of A Date with Darkness Podcast, and I have been a guest on her podcast, and so I wanted her to join us here. Dr. Jones received her Masters in clinical counseling psychology and her Doctorate in clinical psychology. Dr. Jones is specifically known for helping professional people of color heal from narcissistic abuse. Welcome, Dr. Jones.



Dr. Natalie Jones (03:28):

Thanks for having me on.

Dr. Natalie Jones Helps BIPOC Folks Heal From Narcissistic Abuse

Anne (03:30):

As you're known for helping professional people of color heal from narcissistic abuse, can you talk about why this is your specific interest?



Dr. Natalie Jones (03:39):

It started out with my graduate school dissertation, and my dissertation study was on African American women who were psychologically abused by their parents. While growing up in that study, I looked at several different elements of coercive control, and I do think that there's different elements of narcissism in people of color versus the general types of narcissistic abuse. So for example, especially with women of color, black women in in particular,

When you're on the precipice, asking yourself, "should I stay or should I go?" after betrayal and abuse, it can be helpful to ask yourself questions that will guide you to safety.

Claire is on the podcast, finishing her four-part interview with Anne. Tune in and read the full transcript below.

Do I Have to Babysit My Husband?

Ask yourself: Am I my husband's babysitter? Healthy, mature, adult men do not require babysitters - in fact, they understand the entitled, controlling, and misogynistic attitudes that fuel abusive men who treat their wives like babysitters.

You may be your husband's babysitter, if you:



* Have to check computers, phones, search histories, phone histories, bank transactions for signs of betrayal because he isn't honest with you.

* Have to bail him out of legal, work, or other situations because of his inappropriate and abusive behaviors.

* Have to prod, encourage, beg, or bribe him to do basic, decent human behaviors.

* Endure his sulking, coercion, manipulation, and other forms of abuse when he doesn't get his way. 



If I Were a Billionaire, Would I Stay With My Husband?

The fear of financial insecurity can keep many women from setting safety boundaries, including separation and divorce.

Ask yourself honestly: If I were a billionaire, would I stay with my husband?

Financial insecurity is completely normal - especially if you've experienced financial abuse. However, consider exploring some of our resources here at BTR.ORG that can help you make decisions regarding your safety based from a place of confidence and reality rather than fear and insecurity, including:



* The BTR.ORG Workshops

* Our daily, live Group Sessions

* The BTR.ORG Books Page

* Individual Sessions with the BTR.ORG Coaches

* The BTR.ORG Podcast



Do I Have to Educate My Husband About Basic Human Decency?

Many victims are conditioned to accept this as just a part of life - having to educate their husbands on basic human decency.

Things like:



* Don't cheat on your wife and expose her to STIs.

* Don't view pornography where children can be exposed to it.

* Don't lie.

* Don't punch walls/destroy property/yell in other people's faces.



These are basic, decent human behaviors. It's sad that grown men choose not to abide by them.

But guess what? He already knows.

And he chooses not to live like a decent human being. It is not your purpose on this planet to teach a grown, adult, fully-mature man simple, basic human behaviors like, "Don't lie." 

If he wanted to be a basic, decent human being, he would. 

Asking Yourself, "Should I Stay or Should I Go?"

BTR.ORG Is Here For You

At BTR.ORG we know how difficult it can be to ask yourself these hard questions, and even harder to answer them honestly. 

If you're on that precipice, asking yourself, "Should I stay or should I go?" then please attend a BTR.ORG Group Session today and find the validation and compassion that you deserve as you make your way to safety. We believe you. We love you. 



Full Transcript:

Anne (00:00):Welcome to BTR.ORG. This is Anne. Claire and I are back on today's episode. If you have not heard the first three parts of this conversation, go back three weeks. Start there and then join us here. Now,

When you know that something needs to change, it may be temping to confront your abusive partner.

Anne is back on the podcast with Claire - and together they're discussing ways to seek safety when you hope that your husband is changing - without putting yourself in danger of being manipulated. Listen to the BTR podcast and read the full transcript below for more. 

When You Recognize Abuse - DON'T Tell Him He's Abusive

It feels empowering and exhilarating to finally have words for what's happening to you. Many victims feel that if they can confront the abuser and tell him that he's being abusive - spelling out what he's doing and how it's affecting them - he'll stop his behaviors and change. 

However, confronting the abuser is dangerous to victims.



"Talking to them about [their abusiveness], it just gives them more to groom [you with]."

Anne Blythe, Founder of BTR.ORG



What Do Abusers Do When Confronted?

Abusers respond in predictable ways when confronted with their abusive behaviors. They will:



* Groom victims by apologizing, owning their behaviors, and pretending to change; AND/OR,

* Gaslight victims into believing that the incident wasn't actually abuse; AND/OR,

* Become volatile and/or violent; AND/OR,

* Manipulate enablers (flying monkeys) to prey on the victim, gaslighting her and making her feel crazy.



Confronting abusers is never safe. So what should do when you realize that you're being abused?

What Should I Do INSTEAD of Confronting The Abuser?

When you identify abuse, do not:



* Tell the abuser;

* Give him a list of "boundaries";

* Ask the abuser for a polygraph; OR,

* Set "benchmarks" for the abuser's behavior (they can only stay in the home if they start counseling, take a polygraph, confess to church authorities, etc.)



Instead, get yourself to a safe space, in safe proximity from the abuser. From that vantage point, you can determine whether or not you want to continue to engage with the abuser. You can determine which safety boundaries you will implement in order to protect yourself from abuse and control. 



"Make your way to safety and then observe from a safe distance."

Anne Blythe, Founder of BTR.ORG



BTR.ORG is Here For You

Remember that our Group Sessions are available to you. The BTR.ORG Strategy Workshop that Anne references in this podcast episode are an excellent resources for women navigating abuse. Enroll today. 

 

 

 

 

Full Transcript: 

Anne (00:00):Welcome to BTR.ORG. This is Anne.

Claire and I are on today's episode continuing our conversation. This conversation gets a little intense at this point. Claire and I really jived and there's a lot that I edited out that you do not hear and so you're gonna hear me like with sort of certainty like this is what you should do and this is what is happening. There's a lot in this episode that was edited out, so I just want you to kind of keep that in mind. No, also, I obviously don't have all the answers. If you've listened to the podcast from the beginning, you know that I have evolved over time. My feeling now is really strong that getting to safety first and observing from a safe distance is the safest thing for women. Now, every situation is different and every woman is different and only you know what's best for you. As you listen to this episode, know that my intensity is only due to my own personal experience with for years confronting and explaining to someone and having them do what I asked, but then it never actually getting me to safety.

You didn't get married, believing that your husband would betray you with pornography.

You didn't give your heart to him, believing that he would emotionally and psychologically abuse you.

Now that you have the words for his behavior and what's he's been doing to you for so long, perhaps you still hope for a reconciliation - perhaps you, like Claire - this week's guest on the podcast - hope that he can change.

Read the full transcript below and listen to the free BTR.ORG Podcast to explore this week's topic: How Do I Know if My Abusive Husband is Changing?

IMPORTANT: Showing your husband this article or asking him to read it is NOT a safe decision and will likely lead to a sudden change in his behavior that seems positive - but will most likely be grooming, rather than sincere change.

Please keep this article for "your eyes only".

He'll Treat You Like An Equal (& Reject Misogyny)



"How long has it been since you've thought a misogynistic thought? How long has it been since you thought, Oh why doesn't my wife wipe off the table? What's her problem? Instead of being like, oh the table needs to be wiped off, I am going to get a rag and wipe it off because I'm an adult and I live here."

Anne Blythe, Founder of BTR.ORG



A man who is changing from an abuser to a healthy person, will, for a long period of time, consistently reject misogyny.

This means that he will:



* Not expect or ask others to cook, clean, or "take care" of him.

* Not expect, ask for, or coerce you or others for sex.

* Clean up after himself and others, taking on household and yard tasks without being prodded, asked, or encouraged.

* Avoid organizations and situations where misogyny and patriarchy are systemically significant.

* Reject patriarchal leadership roles.

* Forfeit financial control and take proactive steps to learn how to have a mutual financial partnership



He Will NEVER Go Back to Pornography Use

Healthy men don't use pornography. Period. 

Healthy men understand that pornography is exploitative and abusive to the victims of the industry, as well as destructive to their wives and themselves. It's NOT a "temptation" to a healthy man. 

It's a no-brainer. 

If your husband is truly changing, then he has done the work to understand the exploitative nature of the pornography industry and the effects that his pornography use has had on you and your family - and he will never go back to it. Not even once. 

He'll Respect Your Autonomy

A healthy man who is truly changing respects your right to make decisions - large and small. He understands that he has zero right to make demands on your time, body, and energy. He gives you space. 

So How Do I Know If He's Actually Changing? 

But you're not a mind-reader and abusers are VERY good at mimicking these healthy behaviors.

At BTR.ORG, we know that it can be dangerous to live in close proximity to an abuser who claims to be changing. 

If you are invested in staying married to the abuser, believing that he is willing and capable of change, we highly suggest taking our Strategy Workshop, and maintaining a safe distance from the abuser so that you can observe, from that distance, for a good period of time, if he is maintaining these changes. 

Read Why Does He Do That? for even more information on what it looks like for an abuser to make amends for abuse. 

And remember, our daily Group Sessions are available to support you. 

Full Transcript: 

Anne (00:00):Welcome to BTR.ORG. This is Anne. Claire, who is a member of our community is back with us on today's episode. If you did not listen to last week,

Covert narcissistic abuse can be nearly impossible to detect because covert abusers use manipulative tactics to keep a "clean slate image". 

Are you married to a covert narcissistic abuser?

Claire, a member of the BTR.ORG community, endured covert narcissistic abuse for twenty-five years before finally being able to put a name to it - and when she did, she was able to move toward safety. Read the full transcript below and tune in to the free BTR.ORG podcast to hear her story. 

Covert Narcissists Use Passive-Aggressive Techniques to Control Victims



"[The abuser] would never say, 'you shouldn't go to activities, you should hang out with me.' It was rare for him to say things that would look abusive. But like if I'm reading a book around him, he's not okay with that. But instead of saying, you shouldn't read books around me, you're making me feel lonely or things that would be more easily recognizable, he just would interrupt me to start talking to me."

Claire, Member of the BTR.ORG Community



Covert narcissistic abusers are generally seen by others as extremely nice, passive, and congenial men. This is because covert abusers rarely, if ever, say or do overtly abusive things. Instead, they control victims by:



* Pouting

* Sulking

* Emotional blackmail ("If you don't have sex with me, I'll have to use porn; If you don't stay home from this trip, I'll get depressed and have to ignore you")

* Using "flying monkeys" (Having in-laws, friends, clergy, and others tell the victim what she "should" do in order to please the abuser)

* Getting their feelings hurt, in order to make the victim walk on eggshells

* Using scripture or other texts 

* Gaslighting/blame-shifting/word-twisting

* Systematically breaking down the victim's self-esteem so that the victim seeks their approval, then intermittently giving the victim approval and validation



Have You Experienced Covert Sexual Abuse?

Many women in our community have experienced covert sexual abuse.

Claire describes it this way:



"If we hadn't had sex for 48 hours, then he would start criticizing me and just like pouting and frowning and just being kind of toxic until we would have sex."

Claire, Member of the BTR.ORG Community



Covert abusers often justify marital rape by saying things like:



* "I didn't hold her down, so it wasn't rape."

* "She eventually said yes, so it wasn't rape."

* "She initiated it, so it wasn't abuse."

* "She didn't try to fight me off, so it wasn't rape."

* "All marriages require negotiation when it comes to sex. Ours is no different."

* "She set the standard for me having to push for sex... it's just how it is with us. It's not abuse."

* "She didn't say no, so it wasn't rape."

* "I didn't know she didn't want it, even though she [was crying, said no, laid there frozen, said it hurt, asked me to stop, etc]."



Bottom line: covert sexual abusers are despicable human beings.

Having sex with someone who does not want to have sex with you and has not given their enthusiastic consent is rape. 

If you have experienced covert sexual abuse, you are a victim of rape. Please seek support. 

BTR.ORG is Here For You

Our BTR.ORG Group Sessions meet daily in every time zone - please attend a session today. Victims of covert abuse find validation and community as they share their experiences and process their trauma with other victims and our expert coaches. We love you, we believe you. 

 

Full Transcript:

Anne (00:00):Welcome to BTR.ORG. This is Anne. Welcome, Claire.

Do you feel a pit in your stomach when your phone dings a text message alert?

When you see his name in your email inbox, do your hands shake?

Many victims experience trauma when the abuser initiates contact - whether in person or over text, phone, and/or email.

Anne is on the podcast with Jim and Bob. Learn the basics of strategic communication and join us for our Strategy Workshop to learn more. 

The Abuser Uses Communication to Harm You



"I was texting with him, but it just got so out of control and every time he would text, my heart rate would go up. I would just go into like full trauma mode."

Anne Blythe, Founder of BTR.ORG



Abusers use communication - whether in person or through technology - to cause you distress.

Victims, including Anne, report experiencing physical trauma responses from messages that they've received from their abusers, including:



* Nausea and vomiting

* Shaking/tremors

* Clenched jaws

* Headaches

* Panic attacks

* Trouble sleeping

* Generalized nerve pain

* Pelvic pain



The psychological and emotional affect of abusive communication (even when it looks "nice") is serious - but it's important to note that the abuser may also be affecting your physical well-being.

What Are The "Types" of Abusive Messages?

In the BTR.ORG Strategy Workshop, Jane details the types of abusive messages that abusers send to victims - in Anne's interview with Jim and Bob, Bob explains that his ex-son-in-law sent messages that contained:



"...legal language and intimidating language... religious language..."

Bob, Anne's Father



Some abusers attempt to silence victims by using complicated, nonsense verbiage that may appear intimidating - and this can launch victims into trauma.

Our Strategy Workshop can help you debunk the fear surrounding the abuser's messages and help you see reality. 

No One Else Sees The Abuse? We Still Believe You. 



"He sounded so nice and he uses legalese and he never swore or wrote in all caps or anything. So on the face of it, it looked okay. It didn't seem abusive."

Anne Blythe, Founder of BTR.ORG



Many women in our community have expressed trauma due to the abuser appearing to be "such a nice guy" to others, including family, friends, clergy, and others.

This can continue through communication - the victim may receive a message absolutely dripping with abuse, but if another person reads it, they may interpret it to be completely healthy. Perhaps they accuse the victim of being dramatic or paranoid.

At BTR.ORG, we know that YOU know. We trust you. You don't have to prove anything to us. We are already on your side. Join our BTR.ORG Group Sessions today and enroll in our Strategy Workshop. We love you. 

Full Transcript:

Anne (00:00):Welcome to BTR.ORG. This is Anne. If you're new to the BTR podcast, you may wanna consider starting with the oldest episode first and then making your way forward chronologically. If you do that, you'll take the journey with me as I learn more and more. You'll hear a change in my voice as I grow in confidence and skills. It'll be like a friend holding your hand as you make your own way to peace. 

Jim is back today with my dad, so if you didn't listen to last week's episode, listen to that first and then join us here today. We're just continuing the conversation. As I listened to this afterwards,