The China in Africa Podcast

The China-Global South Project

Twice-weekly discussion about China's engagement across Africa and the Global South hosted by journalist Eric Olander and Asia-Africa scholar Cobus van Staden in Johannesburg.

  1. 5D AGO

    Is China's "Engineering State" the New Development Model for the Global South?

    China's rapid ascent from rural poverty to industrial superpower reshaped the global economy and established a new center of gravity for manufacturing. Today, Chinese factories anchor much of the world's supply chains, producing goods at a speed and scale that few countries can match. Behind this transformation is a system that author Dan Wang describes in his new book "Breakneck: China's Quest to Engineer the Future" as the "engineering state," a model defined by massive investments in infrastructure, strategic planning, and so-called "process knowledge" gleaned from the country's rapid industrial development. Now, more and more, the Chinese government touts this development model as an example for other countries in the Global South to emulate. Dan joins Eric to discuss whether the so-called "engineering state" is replicable elsewhere or if it's a uniquely Chinese phenomenon. CHAPTERS: • Setting the Stage – China's rise from rural poverty to industrial superpower • The Engineering State – How China builds, plans, and organizes at a massive scale • Roots of the Model – East Asian development traditions and Soviet legacies • Infrastructure as Strategy – High-speed rail, bridges, airports, and the costs behind them • Industrial Capacity – Manufacturing clusters, supply chains, and process knowledge • The Speed Advantage – Why Chinese firms move faster than global competitors • Tech Transfer Debates – Joint ventures, old IP, and myths about forced transfers • Subsidies and Support – What Chinese industrial subsidies do—and what they don't • Exporting the Model – Limits of replication in Africa, Asia, and the Global South • The China Price – How scale, logistics, and workforce learning lock in dominance • Internal Tensions – Debt, underused infrastructure, and diminishing returns • Shifting Priorities – Xi's push away from consumer tech and toward strategic industries • Global Backlash – Overcapacity, trade pushback, and rising protectionism • Future Crossroads – Why China's development engine is losing momentum • Lessons for the Global South – What countries can adapt—and what they must avoid JOIN THE DISCUSSION: X: @ChinaGSProject | @eric_olander  Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject YouTube: www.youtube.com/@ChinaGlobalSouth Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at @chinagsproject.bsky.social FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH & SPANISH:  French: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine Spanish: www.chinalasamericas.com | @ChinaAmericas JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaglobalsouth

    41 min
  2. NOV 12 · BONUS

    Why China's Ability to Make a $6 Toaster is a Big Problem for the Global South

    China is breaking the rules of development. Typically, as countries progress up the value chain, they transition from agriculture to light industry, then to heavy industry, and ultimately to high-technology and services. And as they move up the value chain, this creates opportunities for less-developed countries to advance. But China's not doing that. Chinese manufacturers are holding on to their immense productive capacity, enabling them to produce both low-tech sneakers and high-tech semiconductors at a scale and cost that are unrivaled. Now, as developing countries around the world seek to move up the value chain, they will have to compete head-on against the dreaded "China Price." James Kynge, who covered China for nearly 30 years at the Financial Times, delved into this challenge in a fascinating audiobook that came out earlier this year, "Global Tech Wars: China's Race to Dominate." James joins Eric from London to explain how China's ability to produce a $6 toaster exemplifies the country's enormous manufacturing advantage that will be very difficult, if not impossible, for other countries to match. CHAPTERS: • Introduction – The $6 toaster and the global value chain crisis • The Flying Geese Model – How automation broke development's old path • China's Dual Reality – A continent-sized economy of billionaires and low-wage labor • Industrial Clusters – The unbeatable advantage of Shenzhen and the Pearl River Delta • The Global South's Dilemma – Competing against the "China price" • Automation and Inequality – Why manufacturing isn't moving offshore • The $1 Trillion Surplus – Trade backlash and global tensions • Searching for Solutions – Industrial policy and self-strengthening in the Global South • Winners and Losers – Cheap exports, consumer gains, and producer pain • Political Risk – Xi Jinping's lesson from Western deindustrialization • The Humanoid Robot Moment – From $6 toasters to $6,000 robots • China's Auto Revolution – BYD and the new wave of affordable EVs • The Double-Edged Future – Opportunity and disruption in China's rise SHOW NOTES: Financial Times: Global Tech Wars: China's Race to Dominate by James Kynge Financial Times: China's plan to reshape world trade on its own terms by James Kynge and Keith Fray JOIN THE DISCUSSION: X: @ChinaGSProject | @eric_olander | @christiangeraud Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject YouTube: www.youtube.com/@ChinaGlobalSouth Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at @chinagsproject.bsky.social FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH & SPANISH:  French: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine Spanish: www.chinalasamericas.com | @ChinaAmericas JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaglobalsouth

    22 min
  3. NOV 8

    How China Changed Its Image in the African News Media

    Ten years ago, African news coverage of China's engagement on the continent was often quite negative and repackaged many of the critical Western narratives. Today, the situation is very different. China has spent considerable resources cultivating closer ties with African news outlets. Through a combination of journalist junkets, so-called "content sharing agreements," and Chinese equipment donations to African state broadcasters, Beijing has been very effective in generating much more positive coverage. In this special episode from the African Investigative Journalism Conference at Wits University in Johannesburg, Eric & Cobus speak with Aggrey Mutambo, Africa editor at the Daily Nation newspaper in Kenya, about the changing Chinese narrative in the African news media. CHAPTERS: • Introduction – From Johannesburg and the African Investigative Journalism Conference • A Decade of Change – How China's media image in Africa evolved • Shifting Narratives – From Western framing to African perspectives • Building Influence – Beijing's strategy for cultivating local journalists • The Tools of Soft Power – Junkets, content sharing, and equipment donations • Inside the Newsroom – How editors like Aggrey Mutambo see China coverage now • Competing Stories – Western skepticism vs. Chinese engagement • Frustration with the West – Why African journalists are rethinking narratives • The Xinjiang Question – How African reporters interpret Chinese messaging • Development and Delivery – The appeal of China's efficiency model • Trade, Trust, and Strategy – What Kenya and South Africa want from Beijing • The Next Chapter – What balanced China–Africa journalism could look like JOIN THE DISCUSSION: X: @ChinaGSProject | @eric_olander | @christiangeraud Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject YouTube: www.youtube.com/@ChinaGlobalSouth Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at @chinagsproject.bsky.social FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH & SPANISH:  French: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine Spanish: www.chinalasamericas.com | @ChinaAmericas JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaglobalsouth

    39 min
  4. NOV 3 · BONUS

    China's Evolution from "Rules Taker" to "Rules Maker" in Development Finance

    As China's economic influence expands, so does its ambition to shape the very system that once constrained it. In this episode of The China-Global South Podcast, Eric speaks with Greg Chin and Kevin Gallagher from Boston University's Global Development Policy Center about their new book that details China's transformation from a "rules taker" within the Bretton Woods system to a "rules maker" who's now reshaping the international development finance architecture. Greg and Kevin explore the country's growing role in the IMF and World Bank, its creation of new institutions like the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB) and the New Development Bank (NDB), and what this means for developing nations navigating between Western and Chinese-led finance. CHAPTERS: • Introduction – A brief calm in U.S.–China tensions • Rule Taker → Rule Maker – China's rise inside global finance • Building Alternatives – Creating the AIIB and NDB • Two-Way Countervailing Power – Leveraging inside–outside influence • Green Finance and "Next Practices" – Raising the bar on development norms • Debt and Diplomacy – How China handles restructuring • Institutional Layering – Shaping without dismantling • Washington's Dilemma – Anxiety over losing control • The Global South's New Agency – More options, more leverage • A New Multilateral Moment – Uncertain future for global governance SHOW NOTES: 📚 Read the book (free download) JOIN THE DISCUSSION: X: @ChinaGSProject | @eric_olander | @christiangeraud Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject YouTube: www.youtube.com/@ChinaGlobalSouth Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at @chinagsproject.bsky.social FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH & SPANISH:  French: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine Spanish: www.chinalasamericas.com | @ChinaAmericas JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaglobalsouth

    40 min
  5. OCT 31

    Kenya's Chinese Debt Swap Comes With a Hidden Currency Risk

    The Kenyan Treasury last month announced a breakthrough in its years-long effort to restructure billions of dollars still owed to the China Exim Bank that were used to build the Standard Gauge Railway. The two sides agreed to convert the remaining $3.5 billion of debt from higher-interest-rate U.S. dollar-denominated loans to more affordable yuan-denominated loans, which would potentially generate $215 million in savings for the Treasury. Both Ethiopia and Indonesia are also in talks with Chinese creditors doing the same kind of currency swap to restructure billions of dollars of railway loans. Yufan Huang, a pre-doctoral fellow with the China-Africa Research Initiative at Johns Hopkins University and one of the world's leading experts on Chinese debt restructuring, joins Eric to discuss Kenya's new swap and why the promised savings could be illusory. 📍Chapters 🎙️ Introduction – Why Kenya's debt deal matters 🚄 Background – How the SGR loans were structured 💱 Conversion – What's changing: USD→RMB explained 🏆 Winners – Kenya, China Exim Bank, and Beijing ⚖️ Risks – Currency exposure and yuan appreciation 🌍 Comparisons – Lessons from Angola, Ethiopia, and Indonesia 💬 Analysis – China's evolving debt relief strategy 🏦 Policy Context – IMF, Common Framework, and next steps 📈 Takeaways – Short-term relief or "kicking the can"? JOIN THE DISCUSSION: X: @ChinaGSProject | @eric_olander |  Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject YouTube: www.youtube.com/@ChinaGlobalSouth Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at @chinagsproject.bsky.social FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH & SPANISH:  French: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine Spanish: www.chinalasamericas.com | @ChinaAmericas JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaglobalsouth

    32 min
  6. OCT 24

    Folashadé Soulé on the Evolution of African Agency in China Relations

    Ghana's negotiations for a China–Ghana free trade deal have sparked a fierce national debate. Political leaders are hailing it as a breakthrough for exporters, while manufacturers warn of being swamped by cheaper Chinese imports. At the heart of the discussion lies a deeper question: how much power do African countries really have to shape their trade relationships with China? To unpack both the deal and the broader question of "agency" in Africa–China relations, Eric & Cobus speak with Folashadé Soulé of the University of Oxford's Global Economic Governance Program. She explains her new framework on five types of African agency, from presidential to civil society, and how African actors at every level use strategy, negotiation, and intent to influence outcomes with Beijing. ⏱️ CHAPTERS: Introduction The Free Trade Debate in Ghana Non-Tariff Barriers & Export Reality Check Africa's Structural Challenge Introducing Agency in Africa–China Relations Five Typologies of Agency Presidential vs. Executive Agency Bureaucratic Agency Civic & Civil Society Agency The "Agency Turn" Western Narratives & Misconceptions Accountability, Corruption, Intentionality Final Reflections SHOW NOTES: Cambridge University Press: The Study of Agency in Africa–China Relations: The Case for Typologies by Folashadé Soulé (open access) JOIN THE DISCUSSION: X: @ChinaGSProject | @eric_olander |  Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject YouTube: www.youtube.com/@ChinaGlobalSouth Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at @chinagsproject.bsky.social FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH & SPANISH:  French: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine Spanish: www.chinalasamericas.com | @ChinaAmericas JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaglobalsouth

    48 min
  7. OCT 17

    [CGSP FORUM] Africa's Energy Future and China: Gauging the Price of Power

    In CGSP's first-ever China–Africa Energy Forum, Managing Editor Cobus van Staden hosts three leading experts to explore how Chinese finance, technology, and policy are transforming Africa's power landscape: Frangton Chiyemura Lecturer in International Development, Open University Wei Shen Research Fellow, Institute for Development Studies Adjekai Adjei Non-Resident Fellow for Africa, The China-Global South Project Drawing on CGSP's new China–Africa Energy Tracker and a groundbreaking report "Powering Africa: China's Expanding Role in the Continent's Energy Future," the panel examines $33 billion in Chinese energy investments across 30 African countries, the rise of renewables, and the shift from "big infrastructure" to "small and beautiful" projects. 🔹 00:00 Introduction — Launch of CGSP's China–Africa Energy Forum & Energy Tracker 🔹 05:20 China's $33B in African power projects: scope and strategy 🔹 14:10 The pivot to renewables: hydropower, solar, and green innovation 🔹 26:45 Financing models, data transparency, and technology transfer 🔹 39:10 Balancing opportunity and dependency in the energy transition 🔹 50:00 Mining, electrification, and the "small and beautiful" Belt and Road 🔹 1:02:00 Audience Q&A — policy, finance, and the future of Africa's grids Originally broadcast live on YouTube, LinkedIn, X, and Facebook, this conversation kicks off CGSP's new global discussion series on China's role in the Global South. JOIN THE DISCUSSION: X: @ChinaGSProject | @eric_olander | @christiangeraud Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject YouTube: www.youtube.com/@ChinaGlobalSouth Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at @chinagsproject.bsky.social FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH & SPANISH:  French: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine Spanish: www.chinalasamericas.com | @ChinaAmericas JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaglobalsouth

    55 min
  8. OCT 10

    Kenya's China Debt Deal Challenges Old Narratives

    Kenya and China have reached a groundbreaking agreement to restructure $3.5 billion in railway loans, converting them from U.S. dollars into Chinese yuan. The move could save Kenya $215 million in debt servicing costs and marks the first time an African nation has shifted major sovereign debt into RMB — a potential model for other Global South countries. In this episode, Eric & Géraud unpack what this deal really means for Kenya, China, and the broader narrative around China's "debt-trap diplomacy." They explore how the agreement challenges old assumptions, what it says about the future of RMB internationalization, and whether other countries — like Indonesia — could follow suit. Chapters: 00:00 – Introduction 02:45 – How the Kenya–China debt swap works 09:30 – Why this deal matters for China's RMB ambitions 15:10 – The myth of the "debt trap" revisited 25:40 – Lessons for other Global South economies 34:00 – Cameroon's shifting trade ties with China and France JOIN THE DISCUSSION: X: @ChinaGSProject | @eric_olander | @christiangeraud Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject YouTube: www.youtube.com/@ChinaGlobalSouth Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at @chinagsproject.bsky.social FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaglobalsouth

    37 min
4.6
out of 5
204 Ratings

About

Twice-weekly discussion about China's engagement across Africa and the Global South hosted by journalist Eric Olander and Asia-Africa scholar Cobus van Staden in Johannesburg.

You Might Also Like