Conversations with Chris Chris Barrow

I make no apology for saying that, if you don’t listen to this podcast in the next 12 weeks, then don’t bother at all.
That’s because I wanted to talk to one of my best mates (and an expert on leadership) about how to deal with the situation we find ourselves in TODAY.
In December, there was a short-lived sense of hope generated by the delivery of the first vaccines and the anticipation of some Christmas cheer.
Soon enough we were slapped down by restrictions on our holiday activities and then, just when we thought we were seeing a light at the end of the tunnel, along comes lockdown 3.0 and a daily diet of gloomy news.
It has hit many people hard - including patients, team members and owners (even me!
So I wanted to talk to Mark about his advice on how to keep your own chin up and how to continue to lead and inspire those around you.
In this candid conversation, recorded on 13th January, Mark and I explore:
What The Stockdale Paradox tells us about the winners and losers in tough times;How to show up as a leader every day;How best to communicate with your team and patients right now;The power of storytelling in leadership;Delivering on empathy, authority and planning;Tips on keeping your mental health intact.
Mark has the ability to take these thorny issues and offer simple and instantly executable tactics.

Both you and your managers will gain from listening to his wisdom and experience.

I simply cannot believe that the last “Conversations with Chris” podcast was broadcast in February 2020 - but then again, we have all been a bit distracted and busy haven’t we?
It would also be fair to say that the podcasting world has grown exponentially during 2020 and became a much favoured way of communicating in the year of Covid-19.
However, my ever-watchful support team (a.k.a. Phillippa and Rachel) decided it was about time I got back in gear with this and so booked an interview time in my calendar and ordered me to “go and get a guest”.
As always, this podcast is intended to be more of a hobby than an enterprise, more of a social experiment than a marketing device - and for that reason I want to get back into the habit of interviewing people who simply fascinate me.
So welcome a very old friend Dr. Simon Thackeray - a dentist whose reputation and reach have extended far and wide this year and on many different fronts.
I decided not to follow the usual podcast pathway of “tell us your life story” but just to jump in with both feet and talk about how Covid-19 has affected Simon and his business, as well as the wider dental community.
What follows is a conversation with no beginning, middle or end - just two old mates catching up and looking back, looking in the mirror and looking forward - I’ve even left in the gaffs 9as you will discover) as we aren’t trying to win a prize for podcasting.
Join us and you will learn:
How Simon was one of the most popular panelists in our various lockdown and return to work broadcasts and how he helped more people in more ways then he may have imagined;A little bit about Mansfield, Notts (home of Thackeray Dental Care) - my own adventures with miners in a 1977 municipal sauna, how the town has changed since the pits closed and an overview of Simon’s patient database and core values;Why I got my Sarahs and my Saras mixed up;The two biggest lifesavers that kept Simon’s business afloat in 2020;Keeping a team together when they are “ragged and raw”;The shortage of dental nurses and what we have to do next;All “the other stuff” - the multitude of extra-curricular activities that Simon gets involved in - and why;Simon’s plans for 2021 and why he is confident about the future.Enjoy listening to a man with opinions - that he isn’t afraid to share!

It’s an absolute pleasure to engage in conversation with a best friend about his life.
Most people in the profession would recognise Tim as the owner of Elmsleigh House Dental Clinic (EHDC) - a specialist referral practice in Farnham, Surrey - one of a decreasing number that are still owner-managed and not gobbled up by a dental corporate.
Tim has built from next to nothing one of the best in it’s breed - but there is more to him than that.
I haven’t met many people who I could confidently describe as a serial entrepreneur but Tim fits the title well.
Tim’s business life begins at age 12, when he runs the school tuck shop and takes the product line somewhat beyond the approved list - early signs of a budding speculator.
We follow him into dentistry and his early career as a dental associate who was sacked from an NHS practice for being too good at his job.
Borrowing every penny he muster, he bought the original practice in it's current location and literally had to sleep on the floor in the practice to make ends meet whilst he grew the business.
Later, he borrowed again to gut and refurbish the property, surviving 18% interest rates and recessions along the way, as well as a moment when 70% of his team had to be replaced in one hit.
A journey of 30 years through thick and thin to become a jewel in the crown of specialist practices.
Along the way, many diversions into other non-dental businesses, resulting in successes, failures and a deep understanding of what works.

There are, however, two key messages that the listener will recall long after the fun we have during our chat:
The Four Hats principle of business ownership - and how most dentists fail to pay themselves adequately for the work they do - ending up with lifestyle, rather than proper, businesses;How Tim has reduced from 200 to 60 clinical days a year and less than 12 days working ON the business - by creating a self-managing dental business and a superb senior management team.Tim now invests the majority of his time as a Business Angel and helps young tech businesses to get off the runway - he has experienced some spectacular success in this area and shares with me his tips for investors in other people’s start ups.
For all of that - he’s a best mate and one of the most generous men I know with his time and his money.

This month’s fascinating conversation began at a 2019 dental trade show, when I made the time to sit down with Shaz and find out more about his company.
I quickly discovered that Shaz isn’t a showman or a salesman, in fact 7/8ths of the person I met spends most of the time below the surface. The more I listened to Shaz’s story, the more I liked him.
Here we join him on his journey from 17-year old graphic designer in the bedroom of his parent’s home to an “office” in the garage where he spent the first years of his post-graduate life.
A classic “E-Myth” solopreneur, Shaz transitioned from graphic to web design in the early 2000’s and we learn how his first job for a dentist ended in a potential disaster that he was able to turn into opportunity.
After 3 years in the garage, working late nights and barely seeing the outside world, Shaz was burned out and demoralised but he did something about it and took the first brave step of hiring a part-time employee and pitching for bigger clients.
That grew to offices in Marylebone and a team of 23 - a real business!
In 2017 Shaz as a new father, Shaz realised that his balance could only be maintained by focus - hence the decision to concentrate on the dental market exclusively.
His team now limit themselves to no more than 5 new web sites per month and have a waiting list, born out of word of mouth recommendations.
The Digimax Dental mission is simply put - “to build the best web sites in the world for dentists” and during our conversation we explore what that means in real terms and Shaz’s predictions for how web sites will have to evolve in the next 3 years.
There’s more.
In the latter part of our conversation we take a look at the story of “Wells on Wheels” a charity formed by Shaz following a visit to India during which he witnessed young children and mothers walking for miles each day to carry water in harsh conditions.
Having resourced the manufacturer of a barrel that can easily be rolled, Shaz now finances the purchase and distribution of his “Wells on Wheels” and, since May 2019, has been able to help over 5,000 families. He intends to help many more. The charity has just been granted registered status and there are plans to grow.
Join me in the company of a quiet leader and hero.
 
Find out more about Wells on Wheels here - https://wellsonwheels.co.uk/
Find out more about Digimax Dental here - https://digimax.dental/

Chris Burton is, by his own admission, a good dentist but reluctant businessman.
We travel with Chris from school in Bolton to university in Newcastle (an experience he did not enjoy) and on to the practice he owns now as a newly qualified Vocational Trainee.
The journey from VT to associate to owner should have been an upward climb but events conspired to reverse the direction.
Yet at age 37 he is the owner of a beautiful private practice in rural North East England, with an enviable post-graduate education record, the latest in digital workflow and very profitable accounts.
Little did he think he would be in that situation when, just 5 years ago, he bought the controlling share in the practice.
Soon after he came close to throwing the towel in following the end of a personal relationship, the acquisition of a struggling business and a real sense of failure and isolation.
What fascinates me about the turnaround that has taken place is not just HOW Chris did it but WHO were the guiding influencers as he began the long and difficult climb out of the darkness.
This he shares with us very openly and honestly.
Chris, by his own admission, is an introvert and finds other people an effort to deal with - but in spite of this and the dire straits he found himself in - he has triumphed.
His story can inspire any listener and is deeply moving (with a happy ending).

There are some people in the dental landscape who really need no introduction.
Even more reason, in my opinion, to get behind the scenes with Ash and find out where he comes from and how his extraordinary career developed as THE go to guy for communication skills training in dentistry.
I’m going to let you into a secret - back in the summer, Ash cycled the 26 miles each way from his house to mine, so that we could record the first version of  this interview.
Can you imagine my horror when I realised that the technology had let me down and our conversation was lost?
I offered to travel over to Ash’s training centre in North Manchester to start again - he graciously combined a personal trip to South Manchester to arrive back in The Barrow Bunker for take-two and here we have it.
Ash shares with us his career pathway from humble beginnings selling on a market stall in Liverpool to taking a leap of faith by enrolling on a sales training programme, after he had walked into the trainer's office to complain that delegates were parking outside his house.
From there, the pupil became a teacher and achieved #1 ranking in his organisation for UK sales and top 5 globally.
Along the way, Ash developed a lifelong appetite for learning and shares with us how and why that happened by a swimming pool in the USA. A defining moment.
Eventually, the call of independence enticed him into setting up his own business, then a series of equally chance encounters produced just 2 dentists who attended one of his courses in 1998.
The rest is history and (as we say) after 20+ years of hard work, he has become an overnight and international success.
This isn’t just the story of one lad from Manchester who did well for himself, it’s also how Ash has literally changed the lives of thousands of people along the way - a story that will inspire every business owner.
Enjoy listening to me chatting with one of my best mates in business.