The Lawyer's Edge

Elise Holtzman
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The Lawyer's Edge

On The Lawyer's Edge podcast, attorney and professional business coach Elise Holtzman sits down with successful lawyers, legal marketing specialists, business leaders and authors to talk about how lawyers and law firms can grow and sustain healthy, profitable businesses.

  1. APR 15

    Sophie Lechner | Leverage the Power of LinkedIn with The Magnet Model

    Sophie Lechner is a former practicing lawyer turned business coach, speaker, and author with two decades of LinkedIn expertise. She helps mission-driven professionals turn marketing from a chore into a joy, enabling them to attract clients like a magnet rather than chase them down. Sophie is the creator of The MAGNET Model, a framework that simplifies client attraction and relationship-building on LinkedIn. She has spoken globally, including at Oxford University, and has been featured in Forbes. Her corporate background spans industry leaders such as BP, Pfizer, and Bayer. Sophie recently published her new book, Unlock Your Impact, where she shares her proven client-attraction framework. WHAT’S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ON LINKEDIN STRATEGY FOR LAWYERS Many lawyers feel uneasy about marketing, and even more uncertain about how to use LinkedIn effectively. Misconceptions about self-promotion, limited time, and discomfort with visibility often prevent lawyers from showing up online in a meaningful way. But LinkedIn isn’t about shouting the loudest. It’s about building genuine relationships, sharing valuable insights, and establishing credibility in the professional community you serve. In this episode of The Lawyer’s Edge podcast, Elise Holtzman speaks with Sophie Lechner, a former lawyer and business coach who helps professionals attract clients with purpose and authenticity using her proprietary MAGNET Model. Sophie shares practical, sustainable strategies for lawyers to show up on LinkedIn consistently, whether you're ready to create original content or prefer to engage thoughtfully with others. She also explains how to tailor your presence so it reflects your values, highlights your expertise, and fosters long-term client relationships. 2:10 – Sophie’s international background and transition from lawyer to business coach 5:06 – Why she left law—and how disillusionment led to reinvention 9:22 – Why many lawyers feel uncomfortable marketing themselves 11:33 – Why LinkedIn is the best platform for relationship-based professionals 14:13 – A realistic time commitment for meaningful LinkedIn engagement 17:21 – The power of content curation (if you don’t want to post your own!) 21:46 – The must-have profile updates lawyers often overlook 25:14 – An introduction to The MAGNET Model and what makes it work MENTIONED IN SOPHIE LECHNER | LEVERAGE THE POWER OF LINKEDIN WITH THE MAGNET MODEL Sophie Lechner | LinkedIn Unlock Your Impact - Sophie Lechner Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer’s Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE… Today’s episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer’s Edge, a training and coaching firm that has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of The Lawyer’s Edge coaching team is a trained, certified, and experienced professional coach—and either a former practicing attorney or a former law firm marketing and business development professional. Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily, and with significantly less stress. To get connected with your coach, just email the team at hello@thelawyersedge.com.

    34 min

  2. APR 8

    Jennifer Gardner | Using the Art and Science of Influence to Be a More Persuasive Lawyer

    Jennifer Gardner is a Los Angeles-based trial lawyer and persuasive communications consultant. Her three-decade career spans entertainment litigation, serious criminal cases, and business and real estate disputes.  Jennifer teaches high-performing professionals how to grow their influence, impact, and executive presence through her programs The Art of Influence and The Power Lab. She also consults lawyers on courtroom presence and strategic messaging, and delivers CLE workshops including Whoever Tells the Best Story Wins and How You Can Have Bad Facts and Bad Law and Still Win Your Case.  She has received Certifications in Influence and Persuasion, Leadership, and Using Neuroscience to Obtain Better Business Results from the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania. WHAT’S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT THE ART AND SCIENCE OF INFLUENCE TO BE A MORE PERSUASIVE LAWYER What separates a good lawyer from a truly persuasive one? According to trial lawyer and communications consultant Jennifer Gardner, it’s the ability to harness both the art and science of influence. Mastering persuasion isn’t just about confidence or charisma, it’s about emotional intelligence, neuroscience, and your ability to create real human connection. Jennifer draws on decades of courtroom experience and advanced training in storytelling, behavior, and communication to help lawyers tap into their full persuasive potential. She shares how legal professionals can elevate their impact by learning to regulate emotions, read others more effectively, and challenge the cultural norms that prioritize intellect over influence. In this episode of The Lawyer’s Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman talks with Jennifer about how to become a more powerful communicator, why emotions drive decision-making, and what it takes to lead in a way that’s both strategic and authentic.   2:03 – What sparked Jennifer’s pursuit of influence and persuasion 4:49 – How early messaging shaped her sense of power and self-expression 7:23 – The neuroscience behind why storytelling works 10:02 – Lawyers as leaders and why emotions matter more than logic 11:53 – Why Jennifer launched The Art of Influence and The Power Lab 14:02 – Cultural programming and lawyers’ resistance to emotion 17:01 – How to start developing persuasive power 20:23 – What marketers know about influence that lawyers need to learn   Mentioned In Using the Art and Science of Influence to Be a More Persuasive Lawyer Jennifer B. Gardner | LinkedIn Chris DeSantis | Why I Find You Irritating: Navigating Generational Friction at Work Get Connected with The Coaching Team at hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer’s Edge   SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE… This episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer’s Edge, a training and coaching firm that has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of the team is a trained, certified, and experienced professional coach—and either a former practicing attorney or a former law firm marketing and business development professional. Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily, and with significantly less stress. To get connected with your coach, email the team at hello@thelawyersedge.com.

    36 min

  3. APR 1

    Coaching for Lawyers: What It Is, What It Isn’t, and Why It Works

    Coaching is often misunderstood in the legal profession. It’s not about giving advice, cheerleading, or fixing a problem. It’s about creating space for clarity, growth, and meaningful change. In this solo episode, Elise Holtzman shares what lawyers need to know about professional coaching, including how it works, when it’s most effective, and how law firms are using it to support top talent. In this episode of The Lawyer’s Edge, Elise draws on her experience as a certified coach and former practicing attorney as she explains how coaching helps high-performing lawyers overcome both internal and external barriers, sharpen leadership and business development skills, and follow through on the goals that matter most. She also outlines what a typical coaching engagement looks like, what results attorneys can realistically expect, and why experience inside the legal profession makes such a difference in the coaching relationship. WHAT’S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT COACHING FOR LAWYERS 1:14 – Why this episode is all about answering lawyers’ most common coaching questions 2:00 – What coaching really is—and how it helps you clarify goals and overcome obstacles 4:27 – Coaching vs. consulting, mentoring, and training: Understanding the differences 6:25 – The importance of customization and implementation in coaching 7:57 – Is coaching a licensed profession? What credentials actually mean 12:24 – Who coaching is really for, and why top lawyers are increasingly embracing it 14:17 – How coaching engagements typically work at The Lawyer’s Edge 19:37 – What kind of results can you expect from coaching (and what to avoid) 22:30 – Why coaching lawyers requires legal industry experience 26:03 – How to explore coaching for yourself or your team MENTIONED IN COACHING FOR LAWYERS: WHAT IT IS, WHAT IT ISN’T, AND WHY IT WORKS International Coaching Federation (ICF) Get Connected with The Coaching Team at hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer’s Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE… This episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer’s Edge, a training and coaching firm that has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of the team is a trained, certified, and experienced professional coach—and either a former practicing attorney or a former law firm marketing and business development professional. Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily, and with significantly less stress. To get connected with your coach, fill out our contact form.

    27 min

  4. MAR 18

    Pat Gillette | Just Ask! How Women Can Succeed as Rainmakers AND Law Firm Leaders

    Pat Gillette is one of the country’s leading voices on gender equity in the legal profession. A seasoned employment litigator, rainmaker, and law firm leader, Pat spent 40 years in practice before shifting her focus to empowering women lawyers through speaking, writing, and consulting. She is a sought-after advisor on advancing women and diverse attorneys in leadership and business development. During her legal career, Pat was recognized as a top employment litigator and trial lawyer by Chambers and other industry rankings. She served as a rainmaker and firm leader before leaving Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe in 2015 to devote herself to changing the legal landscape for women. She also joined JAMS as a mediator, bringing her deep expertise to complex employment disputes. Pat is the author of Rainmakers: Born or Bred, a research-based exploration of the characteristics that drive successful business development in law firms. Beyond her work in practice, she co-founded the Opt-In Project, a national initiative designed to increase the retention and advancement of women in law firms. She was also part of the 2016 Diversity Lab Hackathon team that developed the Mansfield Rule. WHAT’S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT WOMEN AS RAINMAKERS AND LAW FIRM LEADERS For many women in Biglaw, the message has long been you can be a rainmaker or a leader, but not both. Pat Gillette disagrees. In this episode of The Lawyer’s Edge, Elise Holtzman sits down with Pat Gillette to discuss why women lawyers must advocate for themselves, step into leadership, and take control of their careers. Drawing on her decades of experience and groundbreaking research on rainmakers, Pat unpacks the systemic barriers that hold women back, the myths about business development, and the practical strategies women can use to break through. She shares why firms must do more than talk about diversity—they must remove the structural obstacles that keep women from developing business and taking on leadership roles. She also reveals how women can successfully build books of business while balancing other responsibilities. 2:02 – Pat’s legal career and why she transitioned from practice to advocacy 6:21 – The slow evolution of gender equity in law firms—and what still needs to change 8:09 – The hidden structural barriers that impact women’s rainmaking potential 10:55 – How the Mansfield Rule is redefining leadership opportunities in law firms 14:00 – The biggest misconception about business development—and why women are built for it 19:36 – How prioritization and compartmentalization are key to long-term success 22:43 – Why women must actively seek mentorship and sponsorship 27:05 – The simple but powerful career advice Pat gives every woman lawyer: Just ask! MENTIONED IN JUST ASK! HOW WOMEN CAN SUCCEED AS RAINMAKERS AND LAW FIRM LEADERS Pat Gillette | Pat Gillette on LinkedIn Rainmakers: Born or Bred by Patricia K. Gillette Get Connected with The Coaching Team at hello@thelawyersedge.com SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE… Today’s episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women’s Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession.  Early Bird Registration is now underway for our 2025 Ignite cohorts. If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

    31 min

  5. MAR 11

    Denise Baker | Leading a Law Firm: Hot Topics, Tough Calls, and Leadership Lessons

    Denise Baker is a Co-Managing Partner of one of Canada’s oldest and most prestigious firms, WeirFoulds. In addition to that role, she advises on complex municipal and land use planning law issues that appear before multiple courts and tribunals. She also participates in mediations and negotiations to effectively resolve disputes before they get to court. Denise chairs numerous land use and municipal law-related committees, including serving as a past chair of the municipal law section of the Ontario Bar Association. She speaks frequently for organizations like the Law Society of Ontario, the Ontario Professional Planners Institute, and the Ontario Bar Association, and has been teaching land use law for years. She’s repeatedly recognized by Best Lawyers in Canada, in the Canadian Legal Lexpert Directory, and is ranked by Chambers Canada. WHAT’S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT LEADING A LAW FIRM As a managing partner of a law firm who still maintains a busy legal practice, you often have to wear many hats, such as leading your firm, making critical decisions, managing different personalities, and ensuring top-tier client service. Connecting with peers who share similar challenges can be invaluable. This is what drew Denise Baker to the Managing Partner Forum’s conference at the end of 2024, where she and Elise Holtzman, the host of The Lawyer’s Edge podcast, met as faculty members. In this episode, Elise speaks with Denise about the pressing issues, tough decisions, and key leadership lessons she has encountered as a law firm leader. Denise discusses the challenges of training and motivating lawyers, the evolving role of AI in legal practice, the decision to adopt a co-managing partner structure, and the critical importance of addressing toxic behavior within a firm. 3:36 – Key issues that managing partners and law firm leaders face today 6:13 – Use of AI and the importance of carefully weaving it into legal practices 11:48 – Why WeirFoulds decided to adopt the fairly new co-managing partner framework 15:41 – The importance of balancing management responsibilities while in a busy practice 17:28 – How Denise has evolved as a leader since becoming co-managing partner 19:56 – The challenge of managing difficult people and why dealing with toxic behavior in your firm is a necessity 31:01 – Denise’s final piece of advice that can pay dividends for your organization’s culture MENTIONED IN LEADING A LAW FIRM: HOT TOPICS, TOUGH CALLS, AND LEADERSHIP LESSONS Denise Baker (WeirFoulds LLP) | LinkedIn WeirFoulds LLP | LinkedIn | YouTube Managing Partner Forum | Conference Overview  Above the Law Get Connected with The Coaching Team at hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer’s Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE… Today’s episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women’s Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession.  Early Bird Registration is now underway for our 2025 Ignite cohorts. If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

    34 min

  6. MAR 4

    Christa Brown-Sanford | Why Staying True to Your Mission Is Crucial to Achieving Rainmaker Success

    Christa Brown-Sanford is a partner at Baker Botts in Dallas and chair of its Intellectual Property department. She also serves on the firm’s Executive and Diversity and Inclusion committees and is an adjunct professor at SMU’s Dedman School of Law, where she speaks regularly on patent matters. At every stage, she provides guidance on patent procurement, patent portfolio development, patent litigation, and patent licensing–particularly involving cutting-edge technologies in telecommunications, blockchain, electronics, AI, semiconductors, software, and personal mobility.  Outside of the office, Christa is actively involved in several organizations in the Dallas community. She’s a member of the Charter 100 and Charity Crystal Ball, serves on the advisory board for the State Fair of Texas and the Innovation Council for Southern Methodist University, and serves on the boards of SMU, SMU's Dedman School of Law, Rice University George R. Brown School of Engineering, the Baylor Scott & White Foundation, and New Friends New Life (an organization focused on empowering trafficked women and girls). She was also the President of the Junior League of Dallas during the League's Centennial year and was recently honored as a top rainmaker by the Minority Corporate Counsel Association (MCCA). WHAT’S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT ACHIEVING RAINMAKER SUCCESS Today, it’s common for lawyers to move from firm to firm in search of better opportunities. Whether you’re staying put for the long haul or keeping your options open, staying connected to your core motivators and mission can be the key to long-term success—both as a partner and a rainmaker. In this episode of The Lawyer’s Edge podcast, Elise Holtzman sits down with Christa Sanford, Partner and Intellectual Property Chair at Baker Botts, to talk about the impact of leading with purpose. Christa shares her journey to leadership, her commitment to fostering diversity and inclusion in the legal profession, and the pivotal moments that shaped her career. She also reflects on the challenges and rewards of balancing a demanding legal practice with one’s personal life—and why staying true to her mission has made all the difference. 2:34 – Why Christa has remained at Baker Botts long-term and what’s driven her to take on so many roles 8:57 – The biggest key to Christa developing her business and how she became aware of the rainmaking space 14:31 – The rewards of investing time, money, and energy into business development 17:26 – The factors that helped Christa evolve and step into leadership 21:32 – The low point that changed Christa’s approach to failure and perfectionism in business development 28:01 – The challenges Christa faced on her journey to partner and rainmaker as a mom of three young kids 32:25 – Practical advice for building strong client relationships MENTIONED IN WHY STAYING TRUE TO YOUR MISSION IS CRUCIAL TO ACHIEVING RAINMAKER SUCCESS Christa Brown-Sanford (Baker Botts) | LinkedIn Baker Botts LLP | LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram | X | YouTube Get Connected with The Coaching Team at hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer’s Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE… Today’s episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women’s Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession.  Early Bird Registration is now underway for our 2025 Ignite cohorts. If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

    35 min

  7. FEB 25

    Katie Schwarting | The Surprising Habits of a Successful Rainmaker

    Katie Schwarting is a real estate lawyer and partner at Seyfarth Shaw LLP in Charlotte, North Carolina. Her practice focuses on commercial mortgage-backed securities such as conduit and single asset, single borrower and Freddie Mac securitizations, and collateralized loan obligations. She works with servicers and special servicers on legal issues regarding asset management, compliance, default strategies, audit, and regulatory and disclosure requirements. Away from the office, Katie serves on the board of trustees for the Charlotte Museum of History as vice chair. She’s also a member of the Mortgage Bankers Association Commercial Board of Governors and serves on the advisory board for Duke University Alumni Giving. Recently, she was honored alongside a small group of private practice lawyers as a top rainmaker by the Minority Corporate Counsel Association (MCCA). WHAT’S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT HABITS OF A SUCCESSFUL RAINMAKER Building and maintaining a large client base as a team leader and successful rainmaker requires more than just great legal work. It demands a willingness to learn, adapt, and implement business development strategies—some of which might look very different from what worked in the past. In this episode of The Lawyer’s Edge podcast, Elise Holtzman interviews Katie Schwarting, a real estate lawyer and partner at Seyfarth Shaw, about the not-so-obvious habits that helped her grow and sustain a thriving book of business. Katie shares how she got started with networking to land her first client, how she takes the pressure off potential clients, and how she balances growth with retention—ensuring she doesn’t lose existing clients while bringing in new ones. Plus, she reveals what it takes to build a powerhouse team and why leadership plays a critical role in rainmaking. 2:20 – Why Katie prioritized business development while growing her legal practice 4:13 – How becoming a rainmaker opened doors to leadership, management, and firm-wide impact 9:44 – The role of listening in Katie’s approach to business development 11:33 – How to maximize conferences and networking opportunities to attract new clients 18:14 – The one thing Katie never does when meeting a potential client—and why it reflects an abundant mindset 22:02 – What it takes to build a book of business as a team, rather than as a solo effort 26:26 – How to strike a balance between attracting new clients and nurturing long-term relationships 33:10 – The unique challenges and opportunities of being a rainmaker as a woman and/or person of color 38:19 – Why intentionality is the key to long-term success in business development MENTIONED IN THE SURPRISING HABITS OF A SUCCESSFUL RAINMAKER Katie Schwarting (Seyfarth Shaw) | LinkedIn Seyfarth Shaw LLP | LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter/X | YouTube “How to Get the Most ROI From Your Next Conference” Get Connected with The Coaching Team at hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer’s Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE… Today’s episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women’s Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession.  Early Bird Registration is now underway for our 2025 Ignite cohorts. If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

    42 min

  8. FEB 18

    You Made Partner—Now What? How to Succeed in Your New Role

    Making partner at your firm is a significant milestone, but successfully transitioning from associate or counsel to partner isn’t automatic. It requires a mindset shift, strategic planning, and the development of new skills to ensure long-term success. In this episode of The Lawyer’s Edge podcast, Elise Holtzman shares six actionable tips to help you navigate this pivotal career transition. She discusses how to embrace your new leadership role, manage the responsibilities of partnership, and position yourself for success. Whether you’ve recently been promoted, are preparing for the next step, or are simply curious about what partnership entails, this episode offers valuable insights you won’t want to miss. WHAT’S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT WHAT TO DO AFTER YOU MAKE PARTNER 3:27 – Why understanding your compensation structure is crucial after making partner 5:31 – The fundamental shift in your role as a partner—and how to prepare for it 7:40 – A critical step to take immediately to set yourself up for success 10:50 – The essential mindset shift from service provider to business owner 14:52 – How to manage new time commitments and proactively master time management 19:47 – Why understanding your firm’s revenue model is vital for your long-term success 22:26 – How to develop leadership and business development skills to excel in your new role MENTIONED IN YOU MADE PARTNER—NOW WHAT? HOW TO SUCCEED IN YOUR NEW ROLE Smart Collaboration: How Professionals and Their Firms Succeed by Breaking Down Silos by Dr. Heidi Gardner Smart Collaboration | How Law Firms Can Increase Revenues, Grow Client Loyalty, and Improve Diversity How to Cultivate a Business Development Mindset 3 Essential Pillars of Business Development For Lawyers Get Connected with The Coaching Team at hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer’s Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE… Today’s episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women’s Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession.  Early Bird Registration is now underway for our 2025 Ignite cohorts. If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

    28 min
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About

On The Lawyer's Edge podcast, attorney and professional business coach Elise Holtzman sits down with successful lawyers, legal marketing specialists, business leaders and authors to talk about how lawyers and law firms can grow and sustain healthy, profitable businesses.

Information

  • Creator
    Elise Holtzman
  • Years Active
    2020 - 2025
  • Episodes
    170
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © The Lawyer's Edge
  • Show Website
    The Lawyer's Edge

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