The Sleeping Barber - A Business and Marketing Podcast Sleeping Barber

Welcome back to yet another episode of the Sleeping Barber Podcast. We're thrilled to have Avinash Kaushik, the Chief Strategy Officer at Croud, on our show today. With a background at Google and well-earned reputation for insightful digital perspectives, Avinash brings a wealth of knowledge in digital marketing, data science, and much more to our conversation.

In this enlightening episode, we navigate through a myriad of topics. We delve into the frequent pitfalls surrounding KPIs in marketing, scrutinize the limitations of traditional marketing funnels, and unpack the impactful concept of incrementality. Avinash offers an alternative approach that promises to enlighten your strategies.

Make sure to stick around until the end for a post-show chat with our hosts, Marc and V. Believe us when we say this episode is one you wouldn't want to pass up!

So, without further ado, let's jump right in!

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Our Guest:
Follow Avinash Kushki: https://www.linkedin.com/in/akaushik/

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Literature
Get a Grip on Incrementality: https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/marketing-strategies/data-and-measurement/marketing-incrementality

Most Important KPIs: https://www.kaushik.net/avinash/the-most-important-business-kpis/

Driving Innovation from customer intent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzFegvyVJRM

Incrementality: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/akaushik_marketings-incrementality-business-results-activity-7029572543795630080-w-P0/

Brand & Performance Silos: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/akaushik_at-my-ripe-old-age-it-upsets-me-when-i-activity-7037000489066004480-trfZ/

See, Think, Do, Care Framework: https://www.kaushik.net/avinash/see-think-do-care-win-content-marketing-measurement/
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The Sleeping Barber Podcast:
Follow our updates here: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/⁠⁠⁠
Get in touch with our hosts:
Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/⁠⁠⁠
Vassilis Douros: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/⁠⁠
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Timestamps:
O:55  - Intro to Avinash Kaushik
3:38 - The 2 big measurement mistakes many marketers make about KPIs
9:44 - Traps that misguide marketers
14:48 - Why funnels idiodic and a what to use instead of them
20:48 - How to measure both short-term and long-term campaigns
25:26 - What is incrementality, why does it matter & how is it different from ROI? 
30:20 - The ladder of awesomeness
33:30 - The shock of measuring incrementality
35:55 - Different types of incrementality
47:12 - Anybody can suck less, how any size company can use incrementality
51:48 - Customer curiosity & open mindedness makes marketers better
58:44 - What marketers need to learn 
1:05:08 - Avinash’s career path to Croud
1:07:40 - How to find out more about Avinash
1:08:50 - Post pod discussion with V and Marc
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Where to listen
Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sleeping-barber-podcast/id1609811324
Spotify: ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/4v0kaM350zEY7X2VBuyfrF
Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy84MWVjYWJhNC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw⁠
Youtube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@sleepingbarberpodcast


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Keeping up with the latest trends and strategies can be challenging in a world where the B2B sales and marketing landscape constantly evolves. In this episode, Brent Adamson, Global Head of Research at Ecosystem.io, provides his valuable insights into B2B sales and marketing dynamics. From the evolving buyer journey to the importance of designing a seamless experience, Brent discusses various critical topics for businesses looking to differentiate themselves and connect with their customers. We discuss topics like buyer enablement, content marketing, personalization, and more.

We hope you enjoy the show!
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Our Guest:
Follow Brent Adamson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brentadamson/
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Literature
Traditional B2B Sales and Marketing Are Becoming Obsolete (hbr.org) - https://hbr.org/2022/02/traditional-b2b-sales-and-marketing-are-becoming-obsolete

Sensemaking for Sales (hbr.org) - https://hbr.org/2022/01/sensemaking-for-sales
What Is the Challenger Sale? An Overview of the Challenger Sales Model (gartner.com) - https://www.gartner.com/en/sales-service/insights/challenger-sale
Brent Adamson | Mini Keynote - YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wksen56eTn0
The Challenger Sale: Taking Control of the Customer Conversation - https://www.amazon.ca/Challenger-Sale-Control-Customer-Conversation/dp/1591844355
Q&A with Brent Adamson: Thought leadership for better buying decisions (ft.com) - https://longitude.ft.com/can-thought-leadership-help-buyers-make-better-decisions-qa-with-brent-adamson-expert-in-customer-buying-behaviour/
Brent Adamson | Mini Keynote - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wksen56eTn0
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The Sleeping Barber Podcast:
Follow our updates here: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/⁠⁠⁠
Get in touch with our hosts:
Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/⁠⁠⁠
Vassilis Douros: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/⁠⁠
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Timestamps:

0:50 - Intro to Brent Adamson
3:15 - The evolution of B2B Sales & Marketing 
7:07 - Buyers don’t funnel, the loop
12:00 - There are more decision makers than we think there are
18:35 - A different way to think of buyer enablement
20:50 - MQL -> SQL -> NMP & Content Marketing
27:24 - The role of personalization
29:19 - The more important role of designing an easy experience
26:13 - the damage of over customization
39:05 - Connecting customers through confidence and value  
48:44 - The evolution of the challenger sale to sensemaking
50:50 - With content abundance we need an information strategy to differentiate 
53:20 - How B2B can differentiate today
56:48 - Post Pod with V and Marc

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Where to listen
Apple Podcasts: ⁠ ⁠The Sleeping Barber - A Business and Marketing Podcast on Apple Podcasts⁠
Spotify: ⁠ ⁠The Sleeping Barber - A Business and Marketing Podcast | Podcast on Spotify⁠
Google Podcasts: ⁠ ⁠The Sleeping Barber - A Business and Marketing Podcast⁠
Youtube: ⁠Sleeping Barber - A Business and Marketing Podcast⁠




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Have we come full circle?

The evolution of traditional media has been significant over recent years, driven by changes in consumer behaviour, technology, and emerging media platforms. In our latest episode, Pierre Bouvard, Chief Insights Officer at Cumulus Media/Westwood One, shares his valuable insights on the evolution of traditional advertising and its role in modern marketing. We cover many topics, including media planning, building a sonic brand, and the benefits of media diversity in increasing marketing effectiveness. And don't forget, Stay tuned until the end for our post-pod discussion.

We hope you enjoy this episode!

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Our Guest:

Follow Pierre Bouvard: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pierrebouvard/

Follow Westwood One: https://www.linkedin.com/company/westwoodone/

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Literature:


https://www.linkedin.com/in/pierrebouvard/
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/nielsen-audiences-extend-viewing-momentum-into-december-according-to-the-gauge-301725563.html
https://www.westwoodone.com/blog/2023/03/27/two-slides-every-marketer-needs-to-have-audio-streaming-and-podcast-audiences-from-edison-researchs-infinite-dial-2023/ 
https://www.insiderintelligence.com/content/audio-advertising-spotify-grows-podcasts-go-global-radio-safe-bet 
https://www.statista.com/statistics/431478/time-spent-media-canada-media/

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The Sleeping Barber Podcast:

Follow our updates here: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/⁠⁠

Get in touch with our hosts:

Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/⁠⁠

Vassilis Douros: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/⁠

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Timestamps:


0:48 - Intro to Pierre
3:03 - Why major broadcasters are converting from radio to audio 
5:29 - Where traditional media stands today in the media landscape
10:20 - Mass reach with radio is not an oxymoron
13:34 - The problem with media planners 
18:08 - The expanding universe of audio advertising
24:49 - Capturing attention in the car
27:02 - Portable People Meters (PPM) - measuring media audiences
29:45 - Radio is becoming visual in connected cars
34:10 - Heatmapping listener driving patterns
38:20 - Speed of reach
41:49 - Why campaign effectiveness increases with media diversity
43:25 - Is the 3 frequency still accurate? 
53:20 - Distinctive assets & the keys to sonic brands
57:23 - Did we forget how advertising works? 
1:03:35 - Tips for effective audio creative
1:07:03 - Why more messages in an ad is a bad idea
1:09:48 - How to find out more about Pierre
1:11:31 - Post Pod with V and Marc

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Where to listen
Apple Podcasts: ⁠ The Sleeping Barber - A Business and Marketing Podcast on Apple Podcasts
Spotify: ⁠ The Sleeping Barber - A Business and Marketing Podcast | Podcast on Spotify
Google Podcasts: ⁠ The Sleeping Barber - A Business and Marketing Podcast

Youtube: Sleeping Barber - A Business and Marketing Podcast


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Intent-based marketing is a highly versatile tactic that often falls under the umbrella of performance marketing, but is frequently overlooked by marketers.

On this episode, Marc and Vassilis provide a comprehensive overview of intent-based marketing, discussing various aspects such as the tools and technologies employed to implement it, the data sources that underpin it, and the best practices for crafting effective campaigns. Additionally, they examine the channels through which this marketing approach can be deployed, as well as the potential challenges and limitations it poses.

We hope you enjoy this episode and gain valuable insights into this crucial marketing approach.

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The Sleeping Barber Podcast:

Follow our updates here: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/⁠

Get in touch with our hosts:

Marc Binkley: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/⁠

Vassilis Douros: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/⁠

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Sources


https://clearbit.com/blog/what-is-lead-enrichment
https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/consumer-insights/consumer-trends/why-consumer-intent-more-powerful-than-demographics/
https://www.techtarget.com/before-you-leap-understand-the-4-pillars-of-intent-based-marketing/
https://www.semrush.com/blog/how-to-do-competitor-analysis-in-digital-marketing/
https://www.cience.com/blog/intent-based-marketing 
https://www.fastcompany.com/90703704/anonymity-and-the-rise-of-consumer-intent-data

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Timestamps


0:45 - Show Intro
2:27 - The need to deliver short-term results
3:24 - Defining intent-based marketing
4:30 - The benefits of intent marketing 
6:55 - Performance marketing impact on budgets and demographics
8:55 - Sources of intent data
10:48 - Zero-party data
11:38 - Misinterpreting digital data
13:30 - Can digital activity be separated from real intent signals?
15:31 - Why your organization should define its own intent signals
20:04 - How surveys can help clarify buyer intent
21:35 - Airbnb as an example of using buyer intent to design a buyer experience
24:20 - Knowing your role in the customer’s complete buying journey
26:40 - When performance marketing meets branding 
29:10 - Intent, channels and content … Oh my
34:45 - The trouble with gated content
36:09 - Challenges with intent data
38:27 - Offline sources of intent data
43:37 - Content as a limitation of performance marketing
47:30 - The problem of mass personalization 
52:00 - Past purchase vs. recency and frequency of intent
54:56 - What did we learn today

____________Where to listen


Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-sleeping-barber-a-business-and-marketing-podcast/id1609811324
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4v0kaM350zEY7X2VBuyfrF?si=7083317d5afd488b
Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy84MWVjYWJhNC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwji_oSOopP-AhXnlo4IHTZKBgYQ9sEGegQIARAC
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@sleepingbarberpodcast



© 2023 Sleeping Barber


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On this edition of the Sleeping Barber podcast, we have the pleasure of hosting Carol Shmygol. She joins us to share her knowledge and experience gained over 35 years in marketing, working across agency and client roles. Our conversation covers a range of thought-provoking topics, such as marketing fundamentals' relevance, culture's impact on brand building, and the value of marketing research. So, relax and enjoy this insightful episode!
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Our Guest
Follow Carol Shmygol: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carolshmygol/
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The Sleeping Barber Podcast:
Follow our updates here: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/⁠
Get in touch with our hosts:
Marc Binkley: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/⁠
Vassilis Douros: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/
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Timestamps

0:45 - Intro to Carol Shmygol 
3:06 - The draw of marketing 
4:40 - Starting out in a male-dominant industry
7:04 - Advice Carol would give to her younger self
9:32 - Why its important to love what you do
11:52 - Do trends like TikTok and ChatGPT matter?
15:13 - A more beautiful question
17:55 - The battle between digital and traditional 
21:30 - Learning the fundamentals of marketing
26:20 - How culture can be a catalyst for brand building
31:26 - Educating an executive team about brand building 
33:49 - Why briefs are so important and the keys to writing a good one 
40:23 - Brand side or agency side - ideas and advice
42:54 - Managing the demands between short term results and long term impact
47:05 - The importance of the right research
48:38 - Should you react to competitors or ignore them? 
52:22 - Is advertising a strong or a weak force? 
55:44 - Building relationships to extend the CMO lifespan
58:43 - Expanding your business language & acumen
1:02:40 - Post-pod discussion with V and Marc

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Where to listen
Apple Podcasts: ⁠ https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-sleeping-barber-a-business-and-marketing-podcast/id1609811324?i=1000605496685
Spotify: ⁠ https://spotify.link/cmykzT8Aoyb
Google Podcasts: ⁠ https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy84MWVjYWJhNC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw/episode/YjM3ZDYzOWUtNDU3OC00NDgyLTllODAtZjM0MTA1MzEwNjg1?sa=X&ved=0CAQQ8qgGahcKEwiApozvuvH9AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAg

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This week's episode welcomes Jenni Romaniuk, a renowned researcher and professor at the Ehrenberg-Bass institute. She is the author of some incredible books, including her most recent, Better Brand Health. Our conversation delves into several fascinating topics, such as why people dislike their brand trackers, loyalty, the fundamental principles of marketing, the challenges of differentiation, and useful tips for brand tracking and the marketing funnel. 

With so much valuable information to absorb, be sure to tune in and be ready to engage in a thought-provoking discussion! 

Enjoy the show.

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Our Guest

Follow Jenni Romaniuk: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenni-romaniuk-2746884/ 

Follow the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenni-romaniuk-2746884/

Visit Jenni's Website: http://www.jenniromaniuk.com/

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The Sleeping Barber Podcast:

Follow our updates here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/

Get in touch with our hosts:

Marc Binkley: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/

Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/

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Literature

Category Entry Points in a B2B World: https://business.linkedin.com/marketing-solutions/b2b-institute/cep-in-b2b

Laws of Marketing with Nicole Hartnett: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sbp-012-the-laws-of-marketing-with-dr-nicole-hartnett/id1609811324?i=1000570667143

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Timestamps


0:55 - Intro to Jenni
2:27 - Why did you write this book now?
6:00 - B2B or B2C - Who will benefit from this book?
8:44 - Why people often hate their brand trackers
11:15 - Some metrics don’t need to be tracked
15:14 - Brand rejection: why you don’t need to track all metrics all the time
20:00 - Loyalty, where’s the evidence?
23:22 - Does it really cost 5x more to make a customer than keep one?
25:47 - Why the Laws of Marketing are important to your brand health tracking
29:03 - Do the laws apply to B2B and B2C?
30:16 - Why your brand’s user profiles should match the category
33:41 - The trouble with differentiation
36:08 - The laws of marketing in subscription v. repertoire markets
38:55 - Is the AIDA Funnel really valuable?
42:50 - What and when is brand awareness useful?
48:32 - Brand tracker tip #1: Design for the category
49:43 - Brand tracker tip #2: Analyze for the buyer
50:44 - Brand tracker tip #1: Report for the brand
52:51 - 3 metrics to reconsider: word of mouth, attitude, unprompted recall
57:50 - Post-pod with V and Marc

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Where to listen

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sleeping-barber-podcast/id1609811324

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4v0kaM350zEY7X2VBuyfrF

Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy84MWVjYW


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