Trapital Dan Runcie

Short-form video has exploded in popularity the past three years, buoyed by TikTok. Copycat apps and features are now the norm across social media sites — Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Instagram. MIDiA analyst Tati Cirisano joins me on this episode to break down the ongoing war between short-form video’s main players. 

The music industry is certainly keeping a close eye on the battle. Short-form video has been a boon for music discovery. Though, many music execs would also argue music has played a big factor in the rise of these platforms, and the industry wants to better monetize that.

Tati and I covered all this and more on the show. Here’s everything we hit on:

[02:59] Vine paved the way for short-form video
[05:56] TikTok filled void in social media
[06:53] Factors behind TikTok’s success
[10:19] TikTok is an entertainment platform, not social 
[13:20] Potential pitfalls for TikTok 
[23:10] YouTube’s biggest advantages 
[25:53] Overlap between YouTube’s short-form and long-form audiences
[29:37] Facebook and Instagram Reels are picking up steam
[35:19] Instagram Reels more natural to the platform than YT Shorts
[35:35] Meta’s advertising is both a pro and a con
[36:39] Active creator vs. passive watcher user bases
[38:35] In what scenario does TikTok lose top spot in short-form video war?
[41:50] Best platform for artists?
[43:08] Best platform for record labels?
[44:05] Best monetized platform?
[47:11] Will there be a new form of content consumption in the next five years?

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Host: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.co
Guests: Tati Cirisano, @tatianacirisano

This episode was brought to you by trac. Learn more about how artists can bring web2 and web3 together for their fans at trac.co 

Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital

Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Tatiana Cirisano: One of my pros to talk about something that I've just, I don't know if this is still true, but something that I've heard from marketers, music marketers in the past is that, Instagram just has more trust with brands than TikTok and other platforms that are new because they've been using it for so long.
[00:00:13] They know what the deal is like. It just has, better relationships in that respect. but if that's also leading to more ads on the platform, then it's kind of a pro and a con.
[00:00:42] Dan Runcie: All right, today we have a jam packed episode that is about the short form video wars, which platform will come out on top. And I'm joined by none other than Tati Cirisano from Video Research. Welcome.
[00:00:55] Tatiana Cirisano: Thanks Dan. Good to be back. Thanks for entertaining another rant of mine,
[00:01:00] Dan Runcie: No, this is good. And with what you write about what you cover, you're the perfect person to have this conversation with. There has been so much focus as anyone listening to this podcast, who knows about the influence of short form video, what it does for discovery, for music, for artists, how record labels and all these companies are tackling it.
[00:01:19] Now we have several companies that are vying for that spot with similar but different products. But before we jump into TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram, I feel like we gotta give props where it is and give a shout out to Vine because I don't know if we were to be here if it weren't for Vine paving the way, so, oh, gone too soon.
[00:01:41] Tatiana Cirisano: you're giving me flashbacks to the Water Malone guy. I don't know if anyone else is gonna remember that, but the specific things that went viral on that platform. Oh God,yeah. We have to give the shout out to Vine.
[00:01:53] Dan Runcie: It was the perfect example of constraints, breeding, creativity, six, seven, second videos, and pe

The artist-entrepreneur-investor Mr Eazi has no on-off switch. Who he is in the recording studio, on stage, and on the boardroom are the same. With business and music, Mr Eazi has found parallel industries that allow him to be the same person.

He’s founded both emPawa Africa and Zagadat Capital to feed his business appetite. The former invests into African artists and helps them scale. Meanwhile, Zagadat Capital invests into tech startups, most of which are inside the continent. 

Then there’s Mr Eazi, the Afrobeats artist. He’s collaborated with the likes of Beyonce and J Balvin, and also taken center stage at Coachella. After taking time away from music amid the pandemic, Mr Eazi is back in album mode now. Holed up in Cape Town currently, Mr Eazi has plans for two new albums this year.

I caught up with Mr Eazi to cover his never-ending pursuits in music and business. Here’s everything we chatted about:

[0:22] How Mr Eazi is balancing artistry and entrepreneurship
[1:40] Similarities between music and startups
[6:19] Taking equity stakes in artists and what an “exit” looks like
[10:50] How Eazi measures success for Empawa artists 
[13:00] Eazi’s investment thesis for startups
[18:10] Startup success trends in Africa 
[21:30] Lack of capital is biggest challenge to Africa’s startup scene 
[29:45] Raising awareness within the continent
[32:20] Biggest obstacle that African artists face 
[36:52] Uncleared sample on a Bad Bunny song
[40:45] Impact of Western companies investing into Africa
[47:35] Mr Eazi is in album mode

Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSS

Host: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.co
Guests: Mr Eazi, @mreazi

This episode's sponsor is Symphony. Put your fanbase growth on autopilot with the first AI-powered platform that brings all your artist marketing workflows in one place. Learn more at symphony.to/trapital

Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital

Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Mr. Eazi: part of me deciding to be an artist was reading the book, the Jay-Z book, Empire State of Mind. And that was when I saw it clearly and I was like, oh, wait a minute like this music is a business and the music gives you access, it gives you access to capital, access to the network it puts you, gives you a seat at the table
[00:00:20] Dan Runcie Intro: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital Dan Runcie, this podcast is your place to gain insights from the executives in music, media, entertainment, and more. Who are taking hip hop culture to the next level.
[00:00:48] Dan Runcie: All right. Today we have the one and only Mr. Eazi, the artist, entrepreneur. How you doing man? Welcome to the pod.
[00:00:56] Mr. Eazi: I'm good. I'm good. I'm chilling. What's, going on
[00:00:59] Dan Runcie: Me. I'm good, man. Trying to keep up with you. Trying to keep up with you, man.
[00:01:03] Mr. Eazi: I'm trying to keep up with me, bro.
[00:01:06] Dan Runcie: Well, let's talk about that because you are someone who sits at this intersection of artist, investor, entrepreneur, and you are doing all of those three jobs and more. And it's also happening at this moment where the entire continent of Africa is booming from an entrepreneurship perspective, booming from a music perspective.
[00:01:29] How does it feel right now? How are you operating being at the center of that?
[00:01:34] Mr. Eazi: To be honest, I just feel like it's a blessing to be born or to be existing in this time. where like you said, everything is just like taking shape and, you know, yeah, it's exciting and it is for me. It's like every day I'm seeing opportunity left and right and just figuring out what is fun and what is doable and just, you know, going from thinking, oh, I'm an entrepreneu

The gaming industry is larger than music and film combined. We’ve seen big music collabs in Fortnite, Roblox, and more, but there’s room to leverage music even more.
 
That’s been a big focus for Vickie Nauman, who works at the intersection of music and gaming. She consults for major record labels, game developers, and more through her company, CrossBorderWorks. She’s also worked on big virtual concerts, like David Guerra and Saweetie in Roblox, and VR games like Beat Saber. 
 
But there are plenty of friction points between music and gaming. As Vickie said, the music industry likes to get money upfront, whereas gaming is fine getting it on the back-end. Then there’s the long process of clearing music from rights holders to even use in games. It makes it tough to move quickly
 
It’s even more challenging because of how fast technology is changing. New virtual experiences are being created daily, which adds pressure on the music industry to sort this out.
 
Vickie and I covered all this and more. Here’s everything we discussed:
 
[1:40] What attracted Vickie to gaming
[2:40] The gaming moment that finally struck a chord with the music industry
[4:33] Similarities and differences between gaming and music industries
[10:09] Why Travis Scott’s Fortnite concert clicked but others haven’t
[9:53] Can gaming have its Kate Bush - Stranger Things moment 
[15:47] Why the music industry plays catch up to technology
[21:33] Clearing 143 writer’s share for David Guetta’s Roblox concert
[28:45] Dot-com bubble era of web3
[30:45] Music will evolve differently in web3 experiences
[36:17] What’s slowing down virtual reality adoption?
[41:26] AI is coming at the music industry like a freight train
 
Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSS
 
Host: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.co
Guests: Vickie Nauman, @vnvnvnvn

This episode was brought to you by trac. Learn more about how artists can bring web2 and web3 together for their fans at trac.co

Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital
 
Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Vickie Nauman: There are not an enormous number of opportunities for music and games. It's gaming is similar to the music industry where there are a handful of huge, huge, huge gaming studios, and then there's an inordinate long tail of small to mid-size gaming companies and, you know, very, very similar to music.
[00:00:19] So the few big studios, a lot of them are doing, you know, licensing and they get music in. But it's been much more common over the years to gaming studios just hire a composer and they just create a song that is right for the mood and the moment in the game, the gaming studio owns it and they're just done.
[00:00:40] You know, they don't have to worry about licensing or business models to incorporate music into the games. But I think for the most part, the music industry always likes to get their money up front, and the gaming industry likes to get all the money on the back end
[00:00:55] Dan Runcie Intro: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from the executives in music, media, entertainment, and more. Who are taking hip hop culture to the next level.
[00:01:22] Dan Runcie: This episode is all about the future of gaming, and today we'll be breaking it down with someone who understands this space in and out. Vickie Nauman. She is the founder and CEO of CrossBorderWorks, which is her consulting and advisory firm, which works with some of the biggest major record labels, streaming services, and more on the intersections of word music meets technology, gaming, and several other emerging tech platforms.
[00:01:47] We talk about what music and gaming's challenges and o

Burna Boy will be the first African artist to headline a UK stadium show when he performs at the 60,000-capacity London Stadium this summer. It’s the latest sign of Burna’s starpower and Afrobeats exploding popularity.

The Nigeria-born artist is one of the genre’s biggest stars. Burna has reached this level because of consistency (six albums in nine years), savvy performing strategies, and a headliner mentality. 

To break down Burna’s rise, I talked to Denisha Kuhlor, founder of Stan, which helps artists identify and grow their fanbase. Stan has used Burna show giveaways to develop insight into his wide-spreading fanbase. Here’s what we discussed:

[3:05] What sets Burna Boy apart from other African artists
[6:26] Burna’s show at London Stadium
[7:26] The Burna fanbase
[7:52] Streaming era impact on African music
[11:56] Returning to Coachella after 2019 drama
[17:05] How Ye incidentally helped Burna break out
[19:16] How fame is perceived in Africa vs US
[20:45] Fans of Africa’s “Big Three” artists battling each other
[21:50] Burna’s “contested” Madison Square Garden sellout
[24:11] Possible missteps in Burna’s career
[27:54] Projecting Burna’s future shows
[32:20] His best career move
[38:03] Building record label infrastructure in Africa
[44:06] Five-year prediction for Burna’s career


Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSS

Host: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.co
Guests: Denisha Kuhlor, @denishakuhlor

This episode was brought to you by trac. Learn more about how artists can bring web2 and web3 together for their fans at trac.co

Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital

Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Denisha Kuhlor: I think it was interesting, him being so vocal in the approach he took, I think a lot of, Ayra Starr did a documentary for Spotify and she's quite big, especially within West Africa. And she talked about touring in the United States for the first time, and she basically said that she viewed it as an opportunity to make someone her fan, right?
[00:00:19] Like, just by someone attending her show, her goal was to convert them into a fan. Whereas, Burna definitely takes the approach of, "you should either already be one or recognize my fan base for what they are." I think in his case he's lucky cuz he's been able to back it up. especially when you look at Coachella to now.
[00:00:40] but definitely a, an approach that's consistent with his brand. 
[00:01:11] Dan Runcie Guest Intro: Today's episode is a case study style breakdown on the one and only Burna Boy. I was joined by someone who is a near expert when it comes to the world of Burna Boy, and that is Denisha Kuhlor, who has been on the pod several times, and she is the founder of Stan, where not only does she focus on how artists can engage their fan bases, she's actually been involved with ticket giveaways for Burna Boy's upcoming stadium show in London. So she has insights into what these fans are like, what are some of their preferences? And we talked about all that and more. We broke down, Burna Boy's rise. What are some of the key things to his success? What are some of the challenges? Talked about some of the other moments that he's had that we wanted to talk about.
[00:01:57] Where does that stand with him? What is his standout moment and where things could really go for him from here on out? Really great conversation. If you enjoyed the one we did on Cash Money a couple weeks ago. This is something similar, but about an artist who is really having this moment right now, and we broke it all down.
[00:02:12] Here's our breakdown on Burna Boy.
[00:02:14] Dan Runcie: All right, today we have our case study style breakdown on the one and only Burna Boy, and who else is gonna join me then? Someone that

In music, web3 hype may have cooled over the last year but there are still builders in the space making moves, like trac’s founder, Cardin Campbell. Trac is one of our sponsors for Trapital, and it was great to have Cardin on to discuss how music tech startups see the big picture and are approaching this. trac is a music distribution service, but it wants to bridge web2 and web3 together in a way most distribution services aren’t.

Cardin sees an opportunity to digitize how royalty payments are made without disrupting the Web2 experiences on Apple Music and Spotify. That can remain, while blockchain technology adds a layer to bring an artist’s superfans around for the journey.

In this episode, we discussed web3 music — what was overhyped, what has lasting value, and where things go from here. Here’s what you can expect: 

[2:57] Finding a wedge in web3 music 
[5:17] What people get wrong about web3 and ownership
[9:25] SEC challenges with NFT royalties  
[12:04] Most music fans don’t want to invest in artists
[15:31] Where web3 and web2 meet in music
[19:13] Building trac’s platform 
[21:37] Benefit of artists “windowing” music releases
[25:59] How trac sets itself apart
[32:15] Artists “moving on” after reaching success 
[34:54] What’s most exciting in web3 right now
[36:22] Biggest friction points to web3
[41:05] Projecting trac’s revenue mix between web2 and web3
[44:38] How to follow trac’s process


Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSS

Host: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.co
Guests: Cardin Campbell, @iamcardin

Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital

Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.


TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Cardin Campbell: Success means, you know, you as an artist can make a living doing your art, and whatever the national average is in terms of salary per year, we want every artist on track at that level to get to that level of freedom and beyond.
[00:00:17] yeah, we're building for that success story. and then some that's like the bare minimum for us. But yeah, we hope to create, you know, the next superstar. Not create, but we hope to help support the next superstar by giving them the tools to make the business side and, you know, management side of their catalog super easy.
[00:00:35] Dan Runcie Intro: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from the executives in music, media, entertainment, and more. Who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. 
[00:01:03] Dan Runcie Guest Intro: Today's episode is all about where Web two and Web three meet each other in the music industry. It has been a rollercoaster past couple of years in terms of NFTs Web three Crypto and how all of it makes sense for artists, musicians, record labels, and more to help make sense of where we are and where things are going.
[00:01:21] I sat down with Cardin Campbell, who is the founder of Trac is on a mission to empower artists to reach their fans more closely than ever, whether that's by distributing their music directly to the digital streaming providers or through NFTs so that their most passionate fans can get early access and a small ownership stake in their music moving forward.
[00:01:42] Trac is also one of sponsors, so it was great to be able to talk with them about their solutions more deeply and how they're serving artists. In this conversation. We also talked about some of the other challenges that happened with music distribution, such as when you have those superstar artists, how do you keep them on board?
[00:02:02] We also talked about broader trends in web three, where things are going, what some companies are getting right, wrong, and more really great conversation. I like the way Cardin sees

The Techstars Music accelerator just announced its 7th cohort. As the program’s Managing Director Bob Moczydlowsky told me on this episode, they don’t invest in music companies. They invest in companies solving problems for the global music business. 

There are 10 companies that involve music in some way, including — education, web3, and even wedding celebrations. 

Each startup gets a $120,000 check from Techstars and hands-on development for 90 days. Past portfolio companies include Community, Endel, and Splash among many others. According to Bob, the program has returned a 3X multiple on invested capital since starting in 2017. Companies that went through the accelerator have gone on to raise an additional $250 million in capital after the accelerator.

Here’s what we hit on:
[0:00] How the accelerator has evolved 
[7:56] Investment areas that have underperformed 
[9:02] Is there a ceiling on music innovation? 
[12:38] Minor-league scouting, major-league swinging
[17:07] Repeating motif of investments
[18:11] 2023 accelerator cohort is “weirdest class ever”
[28:49] The case for remote teams
[31:44] The surge in capital from outside music industry
[37:46] Music is less sensitive to macroeconomic conditions
[40:39] Return on music accelerator vs. other Techstars programs 
[43:32] Techstars LP’s becoming more experimental 
[48:01] Hip-hop business mentors wanted

Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSS

Host: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.co
Guests: Bob Moczydlowsky, @bobmoz

This episode is brought to you by Amuse. Learn more about how its new program Music Insights can help your artist career: https://www.amuse.io/en/insights

Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital

Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Bob Moczydlowsky: We have to invest in something that isn't fashionable but looks like it's before it's time, might even look a little crazy. And that's the where we can add a ton of value. And then it's our job to help to look back three years later and go, oh yeah, there it is but of course we saw that all along.
[00:00:13] Like, same thing with generative media. We've been making generative media in investments since the very first year of the program and about half of them are really interesting, valuable companies now. And it took a long time for the red, the market to sort of catch up to that. and then, you know, ironically, my problem is as a small check investor just at the moment where I know that space really well and I can be really helpful and we have a good portfolio there and a community of people to connect new founders too. Now that the category is hot, we can’t afford it anymore.
[00:01:07] Dan Runcie's Guest Intro: Today's guest is the one and only Bob Moczydlowsky, but if you're in the space in the industry, you probably know him as Bob Moz. He is the managing director of the Techstars Music Accelerator, and he recently announced the seventh cohort that they have for the accelerator, which includes a few companies here, let me just read the names here.
[00:01:26] Baton Media, Beeper, Confetti, 5ive Mics, Haven, Highly Liquid, Homeroom, Obey Me, Royalty, and Seed. So Bob and I talked about what went into these companies, what are some common themes that went into this cohort and how this cohort has changed over time. This is now the seventh year that Bob has been running this accelerator.
[00:01:48] So he's gone through the bull market of startup investing. The growth of streaming and how each of those things have impacted. So what are some of the trends that have been the most lucrative for him? How he's evaluated on his returns, how his LP mix has been shaped and shifted over time, and some general trends and some common misconceptions that people hear and think abo