“The smallest government you can have is determined by the largest corporation you're willing to tolerate.” Cory Doctorow didn't just coin “enshittification”—he mapped the precise mechanics of how every platform you depend on will eventually turn against you, and why voting with your wallet won't save you. Episode Summary Cory Doctorow breaks down the three-stage process by which platforms lure users in, lock them down, and extract maximum value until the whole thing collapses. Using Facebook as the prototype, he traces how lock-in happens automatically through what economists call the collective action problem—your friends hold you hostage, you hold them hostage, and no one can agree when to leave. The solution isn't to shatter these platforms but to evacuate them through interoperability mandates and adversarial jailbreaking that lets users maintain connections while migrating to alternatives. Doctorow argues that the coming “post-American internet” will emerge as other nations realize they no longer need to tolerate US tech dominance now that tariff threats have materialized anyway—creating an unlikely coalition of digital rights advocates, profit-seeking entrepreneurs, and national security hawks who all want the right to modify and replace American firmware. For individuals, he's blunt: join the EFF or a similar collective and stop agonizing over consumption choices. Boycotts only work when they're organized, and the energy you spend debating whether to stay on X is energy you should spend building systemic change. About the Guest Cory Doctorow is a science fiction author, activist, and journalist who works as a special advisor for the Electronic Frontier Foundation and edits the daily blog Pluralistic. He coined “enshittification,” named the American Dialect Society's 2023 Word of the Year, and has authored over 30 books, including the recent Enshittification: Why Everything Suddenly Got Worse and What to Do About It. A former European Affairs Coordinator for EFF who helped establish the UK Open Rights Group, he holds honorary doctorates from York University and the Open University and serves as a Cornell AD White Professor-at-Large and MIT Media Lab Research Affiliate. He lives in Burbank, uses Linux on a Framework laptop, and remains doggedly enthusiastic about RSS. Mastodon: https://mamot.fr/@pluralistic X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/doctorow Blog: https://pluralistic.net Website: https://craphound.com Key Quotes “The smallest government you can have is determined by the largest corporation you're willing to tolerate. And if you want a smaller government, have that government first and foremost enforce antitrust law.” — Cory Doctorow “People who tell you to vote with your wallet typically have thicker wallets than you and anticipate winning that vote.” — Cory Doctorow “We don't want to shatter the platforms. We want to evacuate them.” — Cory Doctorow Key Takeaways Lock-in happens through your relationships, not technology: The collective action problem means your friends hold you hostage on platforms—you can't leave until they do, and they won't until you do. This automatic lock-in is why platforms can degrade service without losing users. Interoperability is the escape hatch: The same tactics Facebook used to poach MySpace users (bots that scraped your feed and pushed replies back) could evacuate today's platforms. Mandating protocols like ActivityPub, combined with legal protection for adversarial jailbreaking, creates “supple but strong” pressure that companies can't easily evade. The post-American internet is coming: Other nations accepted US tech dominance to avoid tariffs. Now that tariffs exist anyway, a coalition of entrepreneurs (who want to cream off monopoly profits), digital rights advocates, and national security hawks (who fear Trump bricking their tractors) are converging on the same solution: jailbreak American technology. Individual action matters less than collective organizing: Stop agonizing over whether to stay on Twitter. If the platform still serves you, use it—then spend that freed-up energy joining EFF, organizing a union, or supporting mutual aid. Boycotts work only when they're coordinated; consumption choices are not politics. Timestamps [00:00] Cold open: Mark Zuckerberg's Metaverse pivot as peak enshittification [03:53] The three stages of enshittification using Facebook as case study [09:48] Why this isn't collusion—it's unshackled business seeking its ideal form [14:16] How tech consolidation enables regulatory capture [26:12] Protocols vs platforms: Why Bitcoin isn't the answer [33:06] Interoperability: How Facebook killed MySpace with the same tactics we need now [37:05] AT&T's 69-year breakup and why anti-monopoly law matters [44:53] The post-American internet: Why other nations will jailbreak US tech [52:37] Technology as alchemy vs science—why secrecy makes everything worse [58:42] Hollowing out platforms vs shattering them [1:02:01] Bright spots: Digital Markets Act and bipartisan interoperability momentum [1:05:09] Good regulation vs induced mistakes—the UK water system catastrophe [1:10:30] Practical advice: Join EFF, stop agonizing, organize Resources & Links Electronic Frontier Foundation — Digital rights nonprofit Doctorow recommends joining Break Them Up by Zephyr Teachout — Referenced book on monopolies The Underground Empire by Henry Farrell and Abraham Newman — Book on weaponized American infrastructure Podcast: Subscribe: https://podcast.trustrevolution.co Music: More Ghost Than Man
