145 episodes

Areo Magazine's Two for Tea podcast is hosted by Iona Italia. For early access to episodes, support us at https://www.patreon.com/twofortea or https://www.patreon.com/areo.

Two for Tea Podcast Iona Italia

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    • 4.8 • 54 Ratings

Areo Magazine's Two for Tea podcast is hosted by Iona Italia. For early access to episodes, support us at https://www.patreon.com/twofortea or https://www.patreon.com/areo.

    Episode 145 - Freddie DeBoer - The Cult of Smart

    Episode 145 - Freddie DeBoer - The Cult of Smart

    Freddie DeBoer: The Cult of Smart

    General:
    Freddie’s Substack: https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/
    Freddie’s website: https://fredrikdeboer.com/
    The Cult of Smart available here: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250224491/thecultofsmart

    Follow:
    On X: https://twitter.com/freddiesubstack?lang=en

    References:
    Freddie’s essay: https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/education-doesnt-work-20

    Timestamps:
    1.04 Intros: A little on Freddie’s background.
    2.05: Iona reads from The Cult of Smart.
    4.05: Freddie expands on the issues addressed in the book: the problems behind modern educational ideology and philosophy, how America compares to the rest of the world and within a historical context.
    12.03: Why is the education system not achieving its aims and how might these issues be addressed? The introduction of tech and various policies and interventions and how these have failed to have an impact.
    21.18: Iona reads the widget analogy from the book. They discuss the change in blame for poor results from the pupil to the teacher.
    27.32: Freddie highlights our obsession with academic success and with a failure to acknowledge that certain characteristics are heritable. He and Iona discuss the merits and desirability of different skillsets.
    40.45: The difficulty of predicting which skills will be most valuable in the future and on how technology plays a role.
    44.20: Freddie explains how, even within a Marxist framework, individual differences in aptitudes are still important and excellence is still valued.
    49.47: Wage gaps between academics, middle-management administrators, and trades people.
    57.17: Iona argues for the inherent value of elite institutions and highlights how the UK model differs from the US model in terms of admissions and funding.
    1.04.07: Freddie expands on the enrollment crisis in the US and on how college is largely sold as a recreational experience versus the elite Ivy League colleges where endowments motivate a different admissions pathway.
    1.09.30: The difficulties of discussing IQ on a group basis, specifically regarding race.
    1.20.42: Freddie sums up his argument that educational interventions and policy cannot solve inequality and that insisting we are all capable of academic excellence is neither a compassionate nor useful goal. Schools should still be well-funded and be valued beyond chasing test score.
    1.22.48: Thanks and outro.

    Sound editing: Justin Ward
    Shownotes: Nicola Muir

    • 1 hr 24 min
    Episode 144 - A Stoic Captain Hook: Tom Nash

    Episode 144 - A Stoic Captain Hook: Tom Nash

    Podcast notes: Tom Nash

    General:
    Tom’s website: https://www.tomnash.com/
    Tom’s TED Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/tom_nash_the_perks_of_being_a_pirate_jan_2019?language=en

    Follow:
    Twitter: https://twitter.com/DjHookie
    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/djhookie/?hl=en
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tomnash/

    References:
    The Curb-Cut Effect: https://ssir.org/articles/entry/the_curb_cut_effect
    The CRISPR twins: https://time.com/5466967/crispr-twins-lives/
    Antifragile: Things That Gain From Disorder by Nassim Nicholas Taleb: https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Antifragile.html?id=5fqbz_qGi0AC&redir_esc=y#:~:text=Antifragile%20is%20a%20standalone%20book,world%20we%20don't%20understand.

    Timestamps:
    1.00 Introductions. Tom’s visible disability. Why Tom doesn’t consider himself an inspirational speaker.
    6.36 The interplay between Tom’s personality and his disability and the role of humour in putting people at ease.
    13.16 The origins of Tom’s disability and his experiences over 18 months in hospitals. Design and creativity and the development of his DJ brand.
    27.38 How adaptations to improve accessibility often benefit wider society; the curb-cut effect, door levers and subtitles.
    35.25 Why Tom prefers hooks to electric hands. How his prosthetics operate. Potential developments in tissue regrowth technology.
    39.57 Disability activists online. The role of genetic modification and human wellbeing.
    47.32 The impact of technology on all our lives, especially smartphones. The value of doing things the hard way sometimes.
    51.35 Relationships and intimacy. How being dependent on a partner can feel.
    56.25 Psychology and being anti-fragile.
    58.20 Tom’s choice to live. The opportunities of post traumatic growth.
    1.01.07 Pity and the soft bigotry of low expectations. The solitude of being a DJ. How might AI impact the role of the DJ?
    1.14.13 Praise for the Australian Health System and gratitude for the support of friends and family. Tom’s book is being published in September 2023.
    1.16.16 Tom’s happiness with his life.
    1.17.58 Thanks and outro.

    Sound engineering by Justin Ward
    Shownotes by Nicola Muir

    • 1 hr 18 min
    Episode 143 - Christoph - The Culture of Twitter

    Episode 143 - Christoph - The Culture of Twitter

    General:
    Find Christoph on Twitter @Halalcoholism https://twitter.com/Halalcoholism?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
    References:

    Johnathan Haidt on the podcast. https://www.stitcher.com/show/tea-for-two-with-iona-italia-and-helen-pluckrose/episode/06-jonathan-haidt-and-greg-lukianoff-the-coddling-of-the-american-mind-57029667

    The Rise of Victimhood Culture by Bradley Campbell and Jason Manning. https://blackwells.co.uk/bookshop/product/9783319703282?gC=5a105e8b&gclid=CjwKCAiA3KefBhByEiwAi2LDHCYRp7wprYJObCLEvQSjckvGmR1-nEU52lW-n-_j6kurXNE3JhvSfRoCOcoQAvD_BwE

    Campbell and Manning on the podcast. https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/04-bradley-campbell-and-jason-manning-victimhood-culture/id1417717946?i=1000421234132
    Tomiwa Owolade in Unherd. https://unherd.com/2022/05/black-british-lives-dont-matter/

    Timestamps:
    01.06 Introduction. Some descriptions of Christoph from Twitter. Iona and Christoph discuss how he moved from blogging, via Facebook to Twitter.
    22.02 How online culture functions and the way in which extreme views can be the most visible.
    25.23 Iona discusses her own behavior on Twitter and our impulse to protect our reputations.
    40.10 Is “woke” still a useful term? Victimhood culture and the idea that disagreement is harmful.
    52.12 How both the right and left wing behave online. The left’s obsession with managing speech instead of addressing more complex, meaningful problems.
    1:00:01 Class, including the way it relates to Indian nationalism and the caste system. How the left is eating itself instead of fighting common enemies. The American-centric nature of online discourse. Modern British leftist distaste for the white working class.
    1:15:20 How “woke” can get in the way of more meaningful change.
    1:25:02 What are the positives of Twitter? Some iconic tweets.
    1:33:30 Thanks and outro.

    Sound engineering: Justin Ward
    Shownotes: Nicola Muir

    • 1 hr 35 min
    Episode 142 - Claire Lehmann - Riding Out the Media Storm

    Episode 142 - Claire Lehmann - Riding Out the Media Storm

    Riding Out the Media Storm: Claire Lehmann

    General:
    Claire’s writing for Quillette: https://quillette.com/author/clairelehmann/
    And for The Australian: https://www.theaustralian.com.au/author/claire-lehmann

    Follow:
    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/clairelehmann/
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/clairequillette/

    References:
    Eoin Lenihan on Antifa: https://quillette.com/2019/05/29/its-not-your-imagination-the-journalists-writing-about-antifa-are-often-their-cheerleaders/
    On the Weinsteins and Ivermectin: https://quillette.com/2022/03/22/on-darkhorse-ivermectin-and-vaccine-hesitancy/
    Iona’s Substack: https://drionaitalia.substack.com/
    Information on contributing to Quillette: https://quillette.com/contribute/

    Timestamps:
    1:20 Introductions. Claire’s background studying forensic psychology and why she left academic life and founded Quillette.
    5:12 The psychology of political views.
    10:10 Quillette’s place in the political landscape. The publication’s most controversial pieces; Antifa, Ivermectin, the heritability of intelligence.
    21:35 What happened to the Intellectual Dark Web?
    30.28 The capture of the heterodox sphere by American culture and politics. How and why Australia, the UK and Canada differ from the US.
    41:35 Claire’s pushback against the use of Australia’s covid policies as a political football in the American culture war.
    47:22 Quillette’s controversial reporting on the role of genetics and intelligence.
    53:52 Claire’s admiration of Paglia and critiques of post-structuralism.
    57.12 The positives and negatives of Substack.
    1:02:00 Claire’s decision to leave Twitter and how that has benefited her.
    1:05:22 Summing up and outro.
    Sound engineering by Justin Ward.
    Shownotes by Nicola Muir.

    • 1 hr 6 min
    Episode 141 - Kat Rosenfield - Memories of Murder

    Episode 141 - Kat Rosenfield - Memories of Murder

    General:
    Kat’s latest novel, You Must Remember This, from Harper Collins.
    https://www.harpercollins.com/products/you-must-remember-this-kat-rosenfield?variant=40371773407266
    The novel will be released in the UK on the 2 March 2023 and can be pre-ordered here:
    https://www.waterstones.com/book/you-must-remember-this/kat-rosenfield/9780063207394
    Kat’s website https://katrosenfield.com/
    Kat’s novels available here https://katrosenfield.com/books/
    Kat’s writing from Unherd https://unherd.com/author/kat-rosenfield/ and for Spectator World https://thespectator.com/author/kat-rosenfield/
    Feminine Chaos podcast https://femchaospod.substack.com/

    Follow Kat:
    Twitter https://twitter.com/katrosenfield?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
    Instagram
    https://www.instagram.com/katrosenfield/?hl=en

    References:
    Iona’s guest appearance on Feminine Chaos https://femchaospod.substack.com/p/mad-about-the-boys#details
    Kat’s previous appearances on Two For Tea:
    https://soundcloud.com/twoforteapodcast/106-kat-rosenfield-mistress-of-murder
    https://soundcloud.com/twoforteapodcast/68-kat-rosenfield-dating-in-the-digital-age

    The writer Rebeca Christiansen at Areo https://areomagazine.com/author/rachristiansen/ and her appearance on the podcast: https://soundcloud.com/twoforteapodcast/86-rebecca-christiansen-making-mayhem

    Timestamps:
    00:00 Opening and introductions.
    03.24 Iona reads a passage from Kat’s new novel.
    15.14 Kat and Iona discuss what made Kat pivot to adult novels from her previous Young Adult titles. How Kat’s characters got older and their stories developed darker, more adult themes.
    17.18 What led Kat to write for teenagers. Her work as a journalist for MTV and writing at the time of huge successes such as Twilight and The Hunger Games. She and Iona discuss what was available to younger readers in their own teens. The coming-of-age novels that felt more advisory than instructive, such as Judy Blume titles. Iona’s enjoyment of Austen, Tolkien, memoirs and diaries.
    26.50 Iona and Kat talk about how women are drawn to reading and writing true crime and murder mystery. How murder mystery novels require the reader’s attention and allow us to experience danger at a safe distance.
    36.00 The blandness and anachronism of some modern romance writing and screen writing.
    38.00 The two timelines in Kat’s new novel; Miriam’s last Christmas, set in the present, and the other in her youth.
    39.59 Iona reads a passage in which young Miriam plays hide and seek.
    47.18 How Kat got into writing, 15 years ago.
    49.08 Iona asks if the YA fiction scene became too restrictive in terms of social justice and the “own voices” movement. How YA publishing lends itself to moral panic. The way in which that can be misused for reasons of professional jealousy and how the phenomenon is hopefully on its way out.
    55.00 Can reading be harmful? Kat relays a story of her own unpleasant experience reading Haunted by Chuck Palahniuk. How conflating discomfort with harm shuts off the chance for growth and resilience.
    1.03.24 Maine as a setting for Kat’s books. Her influences including Stephen King, Daphne Du Maurier and Shirley Jackson.
    1.06.45 Thanks and outro.
    Sound engineering by Justin Ward
    Shownotes by Nicola Muir

    • 1 hr 7 min
    Episode 140 - Nev March - History and Mystery

    Episode 140 - Nev March - History and Mystery

    General:
    Murder In Old Bombay. Captain Jim and Lady Diana Mysteries Book One. From Macmillan books. https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250269546/murderinoldbombay
    And on audio https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Murder-in-Old-Bombay-Audiobook/1250775043?qid=1673616961&sr=1-2&ref=a_search_c3_lProduct_1_2&pf_rd_p=c6e316b8-14da-418d-8f91-b3cad83c5183&pf_rd_r=YJ45A8E0Q4ZC1DX4Y7RN&pageLoadId=5U11lQEHJx2bK4W0&creativeId=41e85e98-10b8-40e2-907d-6b663f04a42d
    Peril At the Exposition. Captain Jim and Lady Diana Mysteries Book Two. From MacMillan books https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250855046/perilattheexposition
    And on audio https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Peril-at-the-Exposition-Audiobook/B09GC69JCB?qid=1673616961&sr=1-1&ref=a_search_c3_lProduct_1_1&pf_rd_p=c6e316b8-14da-418d-8f91-b3cad83c5183&pf_rd_r=YJ45A8E0Q4ZC1DX4Y7RN&pageLoadId=5U11lQEHJx2bK4W0&creativeId=41e85e98-10b8-40e2-907d-6b663f04a42dhttps://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250855060
    The Spanish Diplomat’s Secret. Book Three in the series, to be released later this year:
    https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250855060
    Nev March’s website: https://nevmarch.com/

    Follow:
    Follow Nev on Twitter: https://twitter.com/nevmarch
    On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NevMarch/

    References:
    Nev’s previous appearance on the podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/116-nev-march-murder-in-old-bombay/id1417717946?i=1000548023723
    The Chicago World’s Fair legacy site https://worldsfairchicago1893.com/
    John Mullan’s book on Dickens https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/artful-dickens-9781408866818/
    John Mullan’s interview with Iona https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/136-john-mullan/id1417717946?i=1000587632804
    Vaseem Khan’s website and books can be found at https://vaseemkhan.com/

    Time stamps:
    1.01 Opening and introductions.
    2.25 The Chicago World’s Fair 1893 as a setting for the novel. Nev describes how the events provide a background for the beginnings of the political polarization that we see today.
    6.00 Iona alludes to the influences of writers such as Dickens and Wilkie Collins on the novels with additional reference to John Mullan’s work on Dickens.
    14.08 Iona reads an excerpt from the book.
    21.22 The real-life events featured in the book. The plight of poor and immigrant workers at the time and the complex morality of their employers in a precarious financial market. The way in which current situations across the world and within the USA itself are reflected in the challenges faced by the protagonists in the novel.
    28.40 The immigrant experience in real life and for the protagonists, Diana and Jim.
    32.55 Identity and belonging as separate. How the character Jim’s maturity is evident in this second novel when compared to the first.
    44.06 Iona reads another passage.
    47.51 Nev discusses her desire to portray Diana and Jim’s sex life through a historically accurate lens. The dangers of childbirth for women, both historically and in present day America and across the world.
    57.20 How ahistorical representations of sexual relationships in novels and media produced today can be jarring. The way in which Jim’s background and experience as an illegitimate child informs his behavior around sex and demonstrates his moral character.
    1.02.20 Nev’s third book of the series, The Spanish Diplomat’s Secret, will be released in Autumn / Winter 2023. This time, the couple will be on board a liner sailing across the Atlantic towards Liverpool.
    1.07.02 Nev gives some advice for budding writers including reading a variety of genres and using lists to free up brain space, allowing room for joy in writing.
    1.10.37 Final reading from Iona.
    1.12.18 Thanks and outro.

    Sound engineering by Justin Ward. Shownotes by Nicola Muir.

    • 1 hr 13 min

Customer Reviews

4.8 out of 5
54 Ratings

54 Ratings

CarolinaHS ,

Melodious voice, brilliant mind, kind heart

I cannot stop listening to Iona. Her interviews are always interesting. This is a truly remarkable podcast that accomplishes what it promises: to hold open minded discussions in a time of increasing partisanship and nonsense orthodoxy.

Dwarg II ,

Partisanship got you down?

Maybe what you need is the soothing voice of a Parsis tango dancer and English professor turned podcast and letter writing peacemaker? Maybe you're thinking to yourself, "I don't need that." But if that's the case, you'd be wrong.

Yevgeny Kom. ,

Excellent

Iona and Helen are both extremely intelligent, very thoughtful and discerning, and tremendously articulate. These two are major intellectual talents. Don’t miss out on these valuable interviews and conversations.

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