Sea Change Radio Alex Wise

Gallup poll data show that for the past forty years, majorities of Americans consistently perceive crime to be worse "this year" than the previous year, irrespective of the tremendous downward plunge in both property and violent crime during that same period. This week on Sea Change Radio, the second part of our discussion with former San Francisco District Attorney Chesa Boudin. In this episode, we examine why "tough on crime" legislation can have such deleterious outcomes, talk about the problems with recall elections, and look at the work Boudin has embarked on at the UC Berkeley School of Law. Then, we dig into the Sea Change Radio archives to revisit a portion of our previous conversation with Kevin Ortiz, a San Franciscan who learned firsthand how hard it can be to extricate oneself from legal entanglements.

Narrator | 00:02 - This is Sea Change Radio, covering the shift to sustainability. I'm Alex Wise.

Chesa Boudin (CB) | 00:22 - What percentage of people would vote for Joe Biden if the question put to voters were, shall Joe Biden continue to be president? Totally different question than who do you want to be the president, Joe Biden or Donald Trump?

Narrator | 00:35 - Gallup poll data show that for the past forty years, majorities of Americans consistently perceive crime to be worse "this year" than the previous year, irrespective of the tremendous downward plunge in both property and violent crime during that same period. This week on Sea Change Radio, the second part of our discussion with former San Francisco District Attorney Chesa Boudin. In this episode, we examine why "tough on crime" legislation can have such deleterious outcomes, talk about the problems with recall elections, and look at the work Boudin has embarked on at the UC Berkeley School of Law. Then, we dig into the Sea Change Radio archives to revisit a portion of our previous conversation with Kevin Ortiz, a San Franciscan who learned firsthand how hard it can be to extricate oneself from legal entanglements.

Alex Wise (AW) | 01:42 - I'm joined now on Sea Change Radio by Chesa Boudin. He is the executive director of the Criminal Law and Justice Center at the University of California Berkeley Law School. He's also the former district attorney of San Francisco. Chesa, welcome to Sea Change Radio.

Chesa Boudin (CB) | 01:57 - Great to be here with you.

Alex Wise (AW) | 01:59 - Now if we can talk about your successor, Brooke Jenkins. In 2022 convictions were up 37% under her administration. Then 2023 convictions were up 43%. This was something that they were touting putting people in jail to fight crime, but we know that that is not the solution. How do we get people to recognize that it's better to invest in solutions that are proven to work, Chesa?

Chesa Boudin (CB) | 02:26 - Yeah, I mean, here's the problem with, with those statistics in a vacuum. The problem with those statistics is that we were not seeking to maximize conviction rates when I was in office. We were seeking to maximize accountability. 

Alex Wise (AW) | 02:37 - When I put those stats out there, that can be twisted either way. She might tout that and I might be horrified by that, but…

CB | 02:44 - Yeah, but let me tell you what's problematic. If we were saying what percentage of cases that go to trial result in a conviction, that might be marginally useful to evaluate whether or not a district attorney is doing a good job choosing trial cases and presenting evidence to juries. But if you just look at overall conviction rates, what's missing that's critically important is cases that are dismissed because of successful completion of diversion or treatment programs. 

AW | 03:13 - And resources are limited. 

CB | 03:15 - Exactly. I got a phone call last night, literally last night out of the blue from a prosecutor who used to work for me, who's still in the office. And this prosecutor said to me, you know, I wasn't a true believer when you were the DA.

If you look at the data, you'll probably notice that traditional incarceration-focused criminal justice approaches are both extremely expensive and terribly ineffective. But, defying logic, they continue to be fairly popular. And when bold thinkers try to advance more sensible approaches, they sometimes get knocked down. In 2020, just days after Chesa Boudin's narrow election to become San Francisco's District Attorney (running on a platform of progressive reform), deep-pocketed out-of-state interests began the process of recalling him. The recall was successful, and in July of 2022 Boudin was unseated. His replacement, appointed by Mayor London Breed, was a member of his own prosecutorial team, Brooke Jenkins, who happened to have been one of the local leaders of the recall campaign. This week on Sea Change Radio, we welcome Chesa Boudin to the show for the first part of a two-part, far-ranging conversation to discuss his unique childhood with two incarcerated parents, evidenced-based approaches to criminal justice, and the bitter fight that nipped his promising tenure in the bud.

Narrator | 00:02 - This is Sea Change Radio covering the shift to sustainability. I'm Alex Wise.

Chesa Boudin (CB) | 00:19 - You can always, in any jurisdiction across the country, find some category of crime that in some period of time has gone up or has gone down. It's simply not an honest or effective way to think about either public safety or the role of prosecutors.

Narrator | 00:36 - If you look at the data, you'll probably notice that traditional incarceration-focused criminal justice approaches are both extremely expensive and terribly ineffective. But, defying logic, they continue to be fairly popular. And when bold thinkers try to advance more sensible approaches, they sometimes get knocked down. In 2020, just days after Chesa Boudin's narrow election to become San Francisco's District Attorney (running on a platform of progressive reform), deep-pocketed out-of-state interests began the process of recalling him. The recall was successful, and in July of 2022 Boudin was unseated. His replacement, appointed by Mayor London Breed, was a member of his own prosecutorial team, Brooke Jenkins, who happened to have been one of the local leaders of the recall campaign. This week on Sea Change Radio, we welcome Chesa Boudin to the show for the first part of a two-part, far-ranging conversation to discuss his unique childhood with two incarcerated parents, evidenced-based approaches to criminal justice, and the bitter fight that nipped his promising tenure in the bud.

Alex Wise (AW) | 01:45 - I am joined now on Sea Change Radio by Chesa Boudin. He is the executive director of the Criminal Law and Justice Center at the University of California Berkeley Law School. He's also the former district attorney of San Francisco. Chesa, welcome to Sea Change Radio.

Chesa Boudin (CB) | 02:18 - Great to be here with you.

Alex Wise (AW) | 02:20 - Why don't you first tell us about… how did your parents being incarcerated affect your path into criminal law?

Chesa Boudin (CB) | 02:28 - My parents were both arrested when I was 14 months old, and though I don't remember that day, or even when the judge sentenced my mother to 20 years to life, or when the judge sentenced my father to 75 years to life, my earliest memories as a child are waiting in lines to go through steel gates and metal detectors just to be able to see my parents, just to be able to give them hugs. I visited my parents in jails and prisons all across New York state over decades. My mom served 22 years before she was released. My father served 40 years before he was released. And so, you know, that experience was really a defining part of my childhood. Um, it's something that separated me from the other kids in my school, something that gave me a connection to a part of the American experience that I might not otherwise have had any awareness about, which is racism,

Generally speaking, the exclusive guiding principle for corporate success seems to be making obscene amounts of money. But what if corporations recognized that a truly valuable return goes beyond wealth accumulation to include positive impacts on the environment and society? This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak to Bruce Piasecki, an expert in the social impact investing space whose new book is entitled, Wealth and Climate Competitiveness. We learn about Piasecki's personal journey, find out why he believes one corporation, Trane Technologies, is doing the right things, and examine what he means by climate competitiveness.

Narrator | 00:02 - This is Sea Change Radio covering the shift to sustainability. I'm Alex Wise. 

Bruce Piasecki (BP) | 00:21 - What my work has always been about is the art of competitive frugality. That those who learn how to do more with less waste, less prejudice, less bias, are actually agile enough to see advantage before others capitalize on it.

Narrator | 00:42 - Generally speaking, the exclusive guiding principle for corporate success seems to be making obscene amounts of money. But what if corporations recognized that a truly valuable return goes beyond wealth accumulation to include positive impacts on the environment and society? This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak to Bruce Piasecki, an expert in the social impact investing space whose new book is entitled, "Wealth and Climate Competitiveness." We learn about Piasecki's personal journey, find out why he believes one corporation, Trane Technologies, is doing the right things, and examine what he means by climate competitiveness.

Alex Wise (AW) | 01:40 - I am joined now on Sea Change Radio by Bruce Piasecki. He is a book writer of the New York Times bestseller, "Doing More With Less," and he also is the co-founder of the Creative Force Foundation. His latest book is "Wealth and Climate Competitiveness." Bruce, welcome to See Change Radio. 

Bruce Piasecki (BP)  | 02:01 - Very glad to be here. 

Alex Wise (AW) | 02:03 - I want to dive into one of the case studies within your book, "Wealth and Climate Competitiveness." But first, why don't you give us the basic thesis for the book. You're quite prolific, but I want to know the genesis of, or the inspiration behind the book, if you can, just in more of a general terms. 

Bruce Piasecki (BP) | 02:22 - To be supportive, it represents a sea change in me, . I had always wanted to write about prejudice, Alex, I look like a Caucasian athlete, which is my essence. But I had brothers, two of which were Puerto Rican and a Chinese sister Su-Yin Chang, and not a nuclear family. My mother, I had no father. He died when I was three. And so I witnessed the good trouble of prejudice from the time I was three throughout my first 20, 30 years of being a person in a neighborhood or in society. And so even though I had written, uh, books about famous people like Eileen Fisher or giants of social investing, I wanted to write a book from my heart about the prejudices I watched from poverty to wealth, how people's perspectives of me changed when I became exceedingly wealthy from my work. And I also wanted to write a book about how we can't solve the climate crisis unless we break down those prejudices. 

Alex Wise (AW) | 03:33 - And how does climate competitiveness play a role in that brainchild as well. 

BP | 03:39 - When I found myself working in seven person teams in 22 nations in Africa, of all things for Walmart, I started scratching my head. I had already worked for Toyota in helping them bring the hybrid powertrain and invent it here in North America. So I always was interested in doing more with less. I was always, uh, having been lucky enough to have been born poor and having climbed a series of social ladders by the time I was 25, I was shocked that some of the world's biggest, most impactful firms, Walmart and Toyota being two of many hired us for change management.

Roman Polanski’s classic 1974 film, “Chinatown,” which laid out a fictional account of California’s north-south water wars, turned out to be quite prescient. This week on Sea Change Radio, we welcome Katie Licari of Afro LA, who breaks down the ongoing tale of Los Angeles water and the impact this never-ending thirst has had on two very rural regions of California - Inyo and Mono Counties. We learn about the colonialist history of LA water rights and look at the monopolistic grip the LA Department of Water & Power holds over these counties.

Narrator | 00:02 - This is Sea Change Radio covering the shift to sustainability. I'm Alex Wise.

Katie Licari (KL) | 00:20 - DWP has changed the rules where you can't transfer the leases more than once. If Mike Allen wanted to sell his business, the next person would have to walk away and bulldoze that business to the ground, without any chance of recouping their cost.

Narrator | 00:40 - Roman Polanski's classic 1974 film Chinatown, which laid out a fictional account of California's North South Water Wars, turned out to be quite prescient this week on Sea Change Radio. We welcome Katie Licari of Afro LA, who breaks down the ongoing tale of Los Angeles Water and the impact this never-ending thirst has had on two very rural regions of California Inyo and mono counties. We learn about the colonialist history of LA water rights and look at the monopolistic grip, the LA Department of Water and power holds over these counties. I am joined now on Sea Change Radio by Katie Licari. Katie is a reporter for Afro LA. Katie, welcome to Sea Change Radio.

Katie Licari (KL) | 01:47 - Hello. Happy to be here.

Alex Wise (AW) | 01:49 - So you are in the midst of writing a multi-piece series for Afro LA, which is being syndicated on other platforms as well, like The Guardian about Los Angeles's "local" water politics, which are occurring around 300 miles away from Los Angeles. Why don't you explain the situation that exists in Inyo County and then what drew you to this project?

Katie Licari (KL) | 02:18 - I would love to. So essentially, Los Angeles gets its water from a handful of sources. They get their water from Metropolitan Water District,  which provides water from the Colorado River and the state water project up north. And then, uh, they all, and most of Southern California does get their water from metropolitan. That includes Orange County, Riverside County, San Diego County as well. But Los Angeles is very unique in that it also gets water from the Eastern Sierra, which is, up in Inyo and Mono County specifically. So water that falls to the west of the Sierra Nevada Mountains, you know, kind of by like Sequoia National Park, Yosemite, that area goes into the state water project, and then all of Southern California gets use of that. But anything that falls to the east of the Sierras becomes the property of Los Angeles. And how Los Angeles secured those water rights was in the early 19 hundreds. They bought 90% of the privately available land in Inyo county, and 30% about 30% of the land in Mono County.

Alex Wise (AW) | 03:30 - It took a lot of foresight, if you think about it, this is over a century ago, and Los Angeles was not like some huge metropolis. But this was a brainchild of Mulholland, is that right?

KL | 03:41 - Yes. This was a brainchild of Mulholland. A lot of Los Angeles boosters, including the o or sorry, the Chandler family from the famously known as owning my previous employer, the Los Angeles Times, helped boost the need for this aqueduct to compete with San Francisco, which was also looking for its own water source. They ended up damning up part of Yosemite National Park, the Hetch-Hetchy Reservoir, in order to gain their water. But through these land deals, Los Angeles was able to beat San Francisco to the punch for water availability and was able to grow more rapidly as a result. 

AW | 04:22 - So I interrupted your chronology that you were layi

With summer heat fast-approaching, it's a good reminder that the planet's oceans are warming fast too. This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak with Elizabeth Alberts, a senior staff reporter at Mongabay about coral bleaching. We discuss how coral bleaching affects marine life, learn about bleaching events, and look at the various ways that coral reefs react to warming sea temperatures.  Then, we re-visit part of our 2023 conversation with Jeff Stoike, of Blue Action Lab, as he describes his organization’s efforts to protect fragile aquatic environments.

Narrator | 00:02 - This is Sea Change Radio covering the shift to sustainability. I'm Alex Wise.

Elizabeth Alberts (EA) | 00:16 - It's a ray of hope. So maybe something can be done with using this coral or figuring out, you know, what makes this coral special. Like what are the elements of this coral that, that make it so resistant to heat?

Narrator | 00:30 - With summer heat fast approaching, it's a good reminder that the planets oceans are warming fast too. This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak with Elizabeth Alberts, a senior staff reporter at Monga Bay about Coral Bleaching. We discuss how Coral Bleaching affects marine life, learn about bleaching events, and look at the various ways that coral reefs react to warming sea temperatures. Then we revisit our 2023 conversation with Jeff Stoike of Blue Action Lab as he describes his organization's efforts to protect fragile aquatic environments.

Alex Wise (AW) | 01:18 - I am joined now on Sea Change Radio by Elizabeth Alberts. Elizabeth is a senior staff writer at Mongabay and works on their ocean desk. Elizabeth, welcome to Sea Change Radio.

Elizabeth Alberts (EA) | 01:30 - Thank You. Thanks for having me.

Alex Wise (AW) | 01:31 - So we're talking to you from outside of Brussels, Belgium, is that correct?

Elizabeth Alberts (EA) | 01:35 Yes.

AW | 01:37 - So you don't have a lot of coral reefs close to Belgium, but it's one of the issues that you've been covering quite effectively for Mongabay. I'd like to discuss this piece that you wrote last month entitled "Global Coral Bleaching now underway looks set to be largest on record." It seems like this is the new normal, kind of like breaking heat records. We're going to see a lot of these type of stories, unfortunately. What are some of the areas that you, as a science reporter are looking at to see where the needle is moving and, and what are some of the big events that environmentalists should be looking at when they analyze the coral reef system In our, in our oceans?

EA | 02:22 - Well, we should just be looking at ocean heat, uh, I mean ocean heating and see temperature rise and Coral Bleaching is just a result of, of these, this rise in global temperatures, which has been, you know, it's, it's it's sea temperatures have been going up every year. This year there is a dynamic with, or there has been since last year with a, with the El Nino climate pattern, and it's causing all sorts of fluctuations and just crazy temperatures. So what's happening now is the fourth Global Coral Bleaching event. And, um, yeah, it's not looking good. I mean, you can look at  the NOAA bleaching alerts there, and, and you'll, you'll see a lot of the, the really dark red, uh, they have different levels for the type of bleaching, uh, or, or not the bleaching. It actually measures the, the seat, um, the temperature of, of the sea. So it doesn't necessarily mean that bleaching is happening there, but there's usually it means there's a very strong likelihood that bleaching is happening there. And then if you look at another tool called the Allen Coral Atlas, they use another way of measuring Coral Bleaching, which is measuring whiteness. And if you look at these maps, the reason I'm talking about this is because if you look at these maps now, it's just everywhere. It's absolutely everywhere. There aren't a lot of, well, there are some places that are,

Globally suicide accounts for about 20% of all gun-related deaths. But in the United States, the country with the highest per-capita civilian gun ownership, over 60% of deaths from firearms are suicides. What accounts for this disparity? And why do efforts at gun reform continue to fail in this country? This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak with an attorney leading the charge for smarter, saner gun laws in the U.S. Robyn Thomas is the Executive Director of the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence. We take a look at trends over the past few years, examine disputes over the interpretation of the Second Amendment, and discuss the persistent political standstill which seems immune to tragedy.

Narrator  0:02  This is Sea Change Radio covering the shift to sustainability. I'm Alex Wise.

Robyn Thomas  0:17  Look at the average family or community in Texas. They're not so concerned about having access to assault weapons what they'd rather have is their children safe at school. And if the messaging is done right in a way that people understand this isn't a choice between all or nothing. This isn't about, can you have guns or no guns? It's about can we implement the kinds of common sense regulations that will make our children safer and doesn't change people's ability to go hunting or sports shooting or whatever it is, that's really important to them.

Narrator 0:47  Globally, suicide accounts for about 20% of all gun related deaths. But in the United States, the country with the highest per capita civilian gun ownership, over 60% of deaths from firearms are suicides. what accounts for this disparity? And why do efforts at gun reform continue to fail in this country? This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak with an attorney leading the charge for smarter saner gun laws in the US. Robyn Thomas is the executive director of the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence. We take a look at trends over the past few years, examined disputes over the interpretation of the Second Amendment and discuss the persistent political standstill, which seems immune to tragedy.

Alex Wise  1:57  I'm joined now on Sea Change Radio by my friend Robyn Thomas. She is the executive director of the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence. Robyn, welcome to Sea Change Radio.

Robyn Thomas  2:06  Thank you so much for having me, Alex.

Alex Wise  2:08  So explain what the mission of the Giffords Law Center is, and maybe the evolution of the organization. It's a fairly newly dubbed nonprofit, correct?

Robyn Thomas  2:19  Yeah, the origin story goes back about 28 years, in early July of 1993, there was a mass shooting at a law firm in downtown San Francisco, the law firm of pet and Martin. And following that tragedy, the legal community in the city of San Francisco, many of whom had lost friends and colleagues decided to get together and do something about gun violence. So they formed what was then called the legal community against violence. And the mission was to corral and inspire the involvement of the legal community in the United States to help and to support the movement to reduce and prevent gun violence. Initially, they focused on what was then a federal assault weapon ban, which they succeeded in helping to pass in 1994, unfortunately, that sunset, and expired in 2004, and was not renewed, but they did have early success in accomplishing what they set out to do. And once they accomplish that, they turn their attention mostly to California laws, and then eventually to other national laws to try and create a model here in California, of what comprehensive thoughtful gun regulation could look like. I'll skip over some of the early work that they did in the successes they had, California has the strongest gun laws in the country, in large part due to the work that was done by the organization over the last now almost 30 years. And it really has created a model that other states have then stepped up to rapidly try and replic