The Humans vs Retirement Podcast Dan Haylett

Summary
Jamie was a professor at The American College and Director of the New York Life Center for Retirement Income. He is a well-recognized writer, speaker and thought leader in the area of retirement income planning. His most recent book, “Rewirement: Rewiring The Way You Think About Retirement,” details the behavioral finance issues that hold people back from a more financially secure retirement. Jamie’s impact on retirement planning has been well recognized as he has been named as both a top 40 financial services professional under the age of 40 by InvestmentNews and a top 40 young attorney under the age of 40 by The American Bar Association.
In this episode Jamie and I discuss the need to rewire the way we think about retirement and challenge the assumptions underlying retirement planning. He emphasizes the importance of adapting spending habits in retirement and the need to minimize regret risk. Jamie also highlights the concept of self-insuring in retirement and the tendency to hold onto money due to fear of unknown future events. He suggests adopting a guardrails approach to spending and focusing on adaptive spending rather than a binary view of success or failure in retirement. They highlight the need for a more realistic approach to retirement income planning that takes into account the trajectory of spending and the magnitude of failure. They also emphasize the importance of financial literacy and education in retirement planning, as well as the potential benefits of equity release strategies.
Takeaways
Retirement planning requires rewiring the way we think about retirement and challenging assumptions about saving and spending. Adapting spending habits in retirement is crucial for a fulfilling and successful retirement. Self-insuring in retirement can lead to holding onto money and not being able to spend it, limiting the enjoyment and fulfillment of retirement. Adopting a guardrails approach to spending and focusing on adaptive spending can help minimize regret risk and create a more flexible retirement plan. Retirement planning models often overlook the trajectory of spending and the magnitude of failure, leading to unrealistic expectations. Financial literacy and education are crucial in retirement planning, as individuals need to make informed decisions based on their knowledge and experiences. Equity release strategies, such as downsizing or reverse mortgages, can be valuable tools in retirement income planning and should be considered as part of a comprehensive financial plan. Individuals should start their retirement planning by identifying their aspirations and using them as a guide for their financial plan, ensuring that their retirement is fulfilling and aligned with their goals. Sound Bites
"People need to rewire the way they think about retirement."
"The biggest challenge is that everybody thinks retirement is the same phase in life, and we treat it the same."
"Self-insuring is holding onto money for unknown future events, which limits spending in retirement."
"That's a 50% chance that you're going to underspend crucially."
"Why do we talk about anything as success and failure? Because it's actually only partial failure anyway."
"There is a framework of flexibility in retirement spending."
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Warm Welcome
06:38 Jamie Hopkins' Journey to Retirement Planning
09:00 Rewiring the Way We Think About Retirement
27:07 The Benefits of a Guardrails Approach to Spending
32:53 The Flaws in Retirement Planning Models
37:40 The Importance of Flexibility in Retirement Spending
42:47 The Role of Financial Literacy and Education in Retirement Planning
53:54 The Benefits of Equity Release Strategies
01:00:14 Starting Retirement Planning with Aspirations
Links
Jamie's Book - Rewirement: Rewiring The Way You Think About Retirement!

Summary
Derek Hagen is the founder of Money Health Solutions®️, a financial therapy and life planning firm. Money Health Solutions helps clients live intentionally and mindfully, using money as a tool to support their ideal life. He facilitates financial health by helping clients understand their own money psychology, lowering financial stress, and increasing confidence in financial decisions. Derek also started Meaningful Money Memo, a newsletter about the psychology of money and living a meaningful life, using personal stories and simple drawings to help demystify money for readers.
He shares his journey from being a Chartered Financial Analyst and a focus on numbers to then having the big realisation that money is a tool not a goal which lead to focusing on the interior side of money and helping people find purpose and significance.
In this conversation, we discuss the importance of mindset and intention when it comes to retirement planning. Derek emphasizes the need to have a purpose and a value statement to guide financial decisions and prioritize experiences over accumulating wealth. We also discuss the significance of time and the finite nature of life, encouraging people to be present and intentional in their retirement years. Importantly Derek highlights the importance of creativity and designing a life that aligns with personal values and priorities. 
Takeaways
Money is a tool, not a goal, and should be used to create a meaningful retirement. Diversification of meaning in retirement is crucial to avoid relying on a single source of purpose and significance. Planning for life beyond retirement is essential and often overlooked. Retirement is not a finish line, but a new phase of life that requires structure and purpose. Having a purpose and value statement is crucial for guiding financial decisions in retirement. Being present and intentional with time is important, as life is finite and experiences have a limited number of opportunities. Retirement planning should focus on designing a life that aligns with personal values and priorities. Creativity and a designer mindset are essential for planning and living a fulfilling retirement. Systems, rather than goals, allow for flexibility and adaptability in navigating life transitions and unexpected events. Sound Bites
"Money is a tool, not a goal."
"Diversification of meaning in retirement is crucial."
"Retirement is not a finish line."
"You know, that reality check in and, ⁓ and I think unless you can work with someone that can bring this out of you, or you can naturally bring this out of you, you end up reverting back to the mean, don't you?"
"Yeah, absolutely. And that's the thing with habits. If we get into our ⁓ habits, we get into what we're familiar with. And this is a pretty big, retirement's a pretty big life transition."
"The retirement that I think the 50 to 60 year olds have witnessed in their parents and their grandparents is and was materially different to the retirement that they're entering into."
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Background
09:21 Money as a Tool, Not a Goal
15:57 Money's Role in Retirement
26:11 The Importance of Planning for Life Beyond Retirement
29:19 Retirement: Not a Finish Line, but a New Phase of Life
31:20 The Importance of Purpose and Value in Retirement Planning
32:03 Being Present and Intentional with Time in Retirement
33:42 Designing a Life that Aligns with Personal Values
38:45 The Role of Creativity in Retirement Planning
52:32 Systems vs Goals: Focusing on Inputs and Intentions
Links
Meaningful Money